Wisconsin Shikh temple shooting

[Shady]

I think it comes down to the age old question about freedom vs security. We can always make society more safe by limiting freedom. The question is whether it's worth it. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

[GostHacked]

I think it comes down to the age old question about freedom vs security. We can always make society more safe by limiting freedom. The question is whether it's worth it. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Funny how people are starting to understand that now, including yourself. Thing is now that people ARE realizing that, the road has been traveled and the way back is now blocked by the same people who wanted to bring you security. You can thank your guys Bush and Cheney for much of that. Also thank Obama for injecting some steroids into the whole thing.

TSA has been incrimentaly invading the airports, train stations, VIPR team checkpoint on the roads, warrant less wiretapping. These are the kinds of things that made Nazi Germany what it was.

When they say 'Papers please', take a moment to understand what that is all about. Terrorism? Laughable. All this is about control of YOU and how you move around and how you behave. How do they accomplish all this? Intimidation and fear. This is how our governments currently operate. They are not trying to scare the enemies, they are trying to scare the average person. It's working.

Would you recognize a police state even if you were living in one?

[carepov]

I think it comes down to the age old question about freedom vs security. We can always make society more safe by limiting freedom. The question is whether it's worth it. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

I do not accept the premise of "freedom vs security". Yes, in some cases it is a trade-off like you say, but in other cases safety can be increased with increased freedom. I would argue that in most cases government policies that limit freedom result in no benefit to safety.

[bleeding heart]

. I would argue that in most cases government policies that limit freedom result in no benefit to safety.

You may well be right. At the very least, the onus is on the powerful and the restrictors to justify their power and restrictiveness.

It shouldn't be up to us to say why it's bad, after the fact (though we should certainly do so when it comes to that.) Rather, the use of Power must be justified, and justified extremly well...or else it's not justifiable. This extrapolates to all uses of power and authority, from state to individual.

Edited August 8, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Guest American Woman]

There is a massive difference in population between the US and European countries genius... If you want to compare make it out of 100,000 or some other reliable method.

Even making it out of 100,000 isn't completely comparable, as the rate of crime doesn't necessarily go up at the same ratio as an increase in population.

Take a small city, for example, with a 15,000 non-diverse population, where murders just don't occur. There are 0 murders. We wouldn't expect a big city with 100 times the population, a diverse city of 1,500,00, to not have any murders. Yet 100x0=0 - so a strict comparison per capita isn't always a realistic comparison either.

Generally speaking, crime doesn't go up directly proportionate to population, but rather the higher the population, the higher the rate of crime per capita generally goes up. Certainly a more diverse population would have a higher rate also, as 'hate' crimes become more likely.

The U.S. has a large population, a large land mass, and a large diversity of population - as well as some very large cities. There's nothing to compare in a lot of European countries. NYC - just one city in the U.S. - has a higher population than several European countries.

[The_Squid]

Even making it out of 100,000 isn't completely comparable, as the rate of crime doesn't necessarily go up at the same ratio as an increase in population.

Take a small city, for example, with a 15,000 non-diverse population, where murders just don't occur. There are 0 murders. We wouldn't expect a big city with 100 times the population, a diverse city of 1,500,00, to not have any murders. Yet 100x0=0 - so a strict comparison per capita isn't always a realistic comparison either.

Generally speaking, crime doesn't go up directly proportionate to population, but rather the higher the population, the higher the rate of crime per capita generally goes up. Certainly a more diverse population would have a higher rate also, as 'hate' crimes become more likely.

The U.S. has a large population, a large land mass, and a large diversity of population - as well as some very large cities. There's nothing to compare in a lot of European countries. NYC - just one city in the U.S. - has a higher population than several European countries.

There does come a point where the statistics are not statistically significant. This is especially true of places with small populations where even a small increase in crime looks more significant than it actually is.

But your hocus-pocus about larger cities not being comparable is nonsense.

One example: your hate crimes theory is silly. They are such a small minority of crimes as to be statistically insignificant when looking at overall crime. And these are totally dependent upon the prosecutor being able to prove that it was a hate crime, otherwise it is prosecuted as a run of the mill assault or murder. And different states/provinces/countries have different definitions of what constitutes a hate crime.

There are plenty of cities and countries in Europe that are comparable to the USA. That argument doesn't make sense.

[socialist]

There does come a point where the statistics are not statistically significant. This is especially true of places with small populations where even a small increase in crime looks more significant than it actually is.

But your hocus-pocus about larger cities not being comparable is nonsense.

One example: your hate crimes theory is silly. They are such a small minority of crimes as to be statistically insignificant when looking at overall crime. And these are totally dependent upon the prosecutor being able to prove that it was a hate crime, otherwise it is prosecuted as a run of the mill assault or murder. And different states/provinces/countries have different definitions of what constitutes a hate crime.

There are plenty of cities and countries in Europe that are comparable to the USA. That argument doesn't make sense.

there aren't any cities in europe with the violent crime rate of american cities like st.louis, stockton, detroit, cleveland, oakland, memphis and hundreds more. ever been to oakland california. scary place. there is no where in europe as scary as that place let me tell you.

[Guest American Woman]

There are plenty of cities and countries in Europe that are comparable to the USA. That argument doesn't make sense.

So name a country in Europe that is comparable to the U.S. ..... Then name a city in Europe that is comparable to the largest city in the U.S. (This site of metro populations worldwide might help) and name a country that has comparable cities (plural) to cities that the U.S. has.

One example: your hate crimes theory is silly. They are such a small minority of crimes as to be statistically insignificant when looking at overall crime. And these are totally dependent upon the prosecutor being able to prove that it was a hate crime, otherwise it is prosecuted as a run of the mill assault or murder. And different states/provinces/countries have different definitions of what constitutes a hate crime.

And no, diversity isn't a non-issue. People who are totally alike tend to get along better than people who are quite different; they tend to have fewer issues. If you think a little totally white nation or city is comparable to a large, very diverse nation or city, I think you are lacking in the reality of the real world. Whether or not it is labeled a hate crime or prosecuted as a hate crime makes no difference regarding the reasons leading to the murder. I think gang related murders are based on hate - they automatically hate certain people based simply on their association with a particular gang, and will kill them for no other reason, for example.

[guyser]

there aren't any cities in europe with the violent crime rate of american cities like st.louis, stockton, detroit, cleveland, oakland, memphis and hundreds more.

None....except London ,Moscow, Glasgow.....research, teachers are supposed to know how. Guess that explains things about you.

ever been to oakland california. scary place. there is no where in europe as scary as that place let me tell you.

Considering you havent (1) been to oakland and (2) Europe, why the f are you trolling like this?

[socialist]

None....except London ,Moscow, Glasgow.....research, teachers are supposed to know how. Guess that explains things about you.

Considering you havent (1) been to oakland and (2) Europe, why the f are you trolling like this?

crickets^

[GostHacked]

crickets^

Troll ^

[socialist]

Troll ^

alex jones fan^ yeesh.

[The_Squid]

So name a country in Europe that is comparable to the U.S. ..... Then name a city in Europe that is comparable to the largest city in the U.S. (This site of metro populations worldwide might help) and name a country that has comparable cities (plural) to cities that the U.S. has.

Nations do not need to be identical in every way to be comparable. Your premise makes no sense.

[Guest American Woman]

Nations do not need to be identical in every way to be comparable. Your premise makes no sense.

So name some that are comparable - and explain how they are. You are the one who said there were plenty of countries in Europe comparable to the U.S. - so name them.

Edited August 8, 2012 by American Woman

[The_Squid]

So name some that are comparable - and explain how they are. You are the one who said there were plenty of countries in Europe comparable to the U.S. - so name them.

Instead of me making a list, why don't we just say that most major European countries (eg Germany). Maybe not Luxembourg.

Just like comparing Canada and the USA.

In your world, apparently we can't compare statistics between nations. That's silly.

Edited August 8, 2012 by The_Squid

[Guest American Woman]

.

Edited November 6, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

alex jones fan^ yeesh.

There is only one person who consistently tried to bug me with that line. I am going to make a guess and say you were a former porch occupying canine. IF that is indeed you, showing your true colours now?

[socialist]

There is only one person who consistently tried to bug me with that line. I am going to make a guess and say you were a former porch occupying canine. IF that is indeed you, showing your true colours now?

Prison Planet. There's a war happening in your mind GH. LOL

Anyways, the USA needs gun control before things get out of hand. I know Obama will do somethin next term

[bud]

you can compare countries. for example, here is the reading level ranking in the world:

link

1st = korea

2nd = finland

3rd = canada

33rd = united states

[bud]

here is another example:

Prisoners per 100,000 People, by Country

1 United States 738

2 Russia 611

3 St Kitts and Nevis 547

4 Turkmenistan 489

5 Cuba 487

40 Iran 214

93 Canada 107

link

Edited August 9, 2012 by bud

[bud]

here is another:

Intentional Homicides Per 100,000 People, 2000-2004

Ranked Lowest to Highest

1 Myanmar 0.2

2 Sudan 0.3

3 Egypt 0.4

4 Japan 0.5

5 Singapore 0.5

48 Canada 1.9

78 United States 5.6

link

[bud]

united states keeps in good company:

Minimum Known Number of Execusions

Countries are ranked highest to lowest number in 2007

1 China 1000s

2 Iran 388

3 Iraq 120

4 Saudi Arabia 69

5 United States 52

link

[dre]

I agree with your assessment of her post. Well said.

The problem of course is that nobody said or thinks this one guy "represents legal gun owners in the US". But sure! If you invent that part out of thin air then I guess you have a point.

[WWWTT]

you can compare countries. for example, here is the reading level ranking in the world:

link

1st = korea

2nd = finland

3rd = canada

33rd = united states

No bud!NOOOOOOO!!!

There is no problem in the US.The problem is Islam.When Islam flew those planes into the buildings on 911 people were saying Islam is OK but it was Islam killing people.Why do people say there is not hate in Islam?Why?

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

here is another example:

Prisoners per 100,000 People, by Country

1 United States 738

2 Russia 611

3 St Kitts and Nevis 547

4 Turkmenistan 489

5 Cuba 487

40 Iran 214

93 Canada 107

link

This is a tough comparison because of different legal systems and reporting accuracies.