Wisconsin Shikh temple shooting

[Guest American Woman]

islamophobia is a problem in the states. racism usually happens due to ignorance and when you have idiots who can't even tell the difference between muslims and sikhs, then it takes it to a new level. here is a sample of americans:

Yep. A "sample of Americans." "A problem in the states." But of course if someone were to say that "terrorism is a problem in Islam" and then posted a video of extremist Muslims cutting off Pearl's head and committing other acts of terrorism as a "sample of Muslims," bud would be one of the first to be howling about it.

[Guest American Woman]

deleted

Edited August 7, 2012 by American Woman

[waldo]

Exactly.........Meanwhile, over 250 million private firearms didn’t kill anybody today

citation request

Two Government sources from near 15-20 years ago: They put estimates ranging from ~200 -~220 million back then..........And gun sales have skyrocketed post 9/11 and Obama since.

don't hesitate to point out exactly where your 15-20 year dated sources specifically draw direct reference to your claim. While you're doing that, don't forget to step-up and address the more salient point you keep deflecting away from... the one that has you failing to substantiate your assertion that, "guns prevented someone from dying".

Are you suggesting that there have been 250 million gun deaths today in the States? 100 million? 50 million? 1 million? 500 000? 100 000? 10000? 5000? 1000? 500? 100? 50?

How many of the over 250 million legal guns killed someone on Sunday?

are you suggesting that there have been 250 million gun deaths prevented today in the States? 100 million? 50 million? 1 million? 500 000? 100 000? 10000? 5000? 1000? 500? 100? 50?

how many of the over 250 million legal guns prevented someone from dying on Sunday?

[BC_chick]

Duh. Ya think? And the people who are quick to point it out are the people who have no problem condemning the U.S./Americans as a whole. You think that just might be my point?

Watch what you are ignorantly, falsely accusing me of there, sweetie.

I'm proving your point? And who exactly is making accusations here?

And please dont' call me sweetie. Even if it's just posturing it's kinda yucky.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm proving your point? And who exactly is making accusations here?

Huh?? What accusations did I make about you?

And please dont' call me sweetie. Even if it's just posturing it's kinda yucky.

I'd call you b*tch, but I'm afraid I'd get suspended, and you just ain't worth it, sweetie.

[Signals.Cpl]

i see that you're still licking your wounds from other threads. time to let it go and stop feeling so threatened by me.

Threatened? Nah more like mildly amused by your ravings

lets talk about racism towards muslims in the united states.

Or Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Sweden, Norway, and every other country in the world. There is racism in the US, just like every country in the world

Muslim Discrimination Cases Disproportionately High In U.S.

there has been a 150 percent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth can often become the victims of school yard bullying.

"In each city and town where I have met with (Muslim) leaders, I have been struck by the fear that pervades their lives," Perez told the panel.

link

Disproportionately high in the US compared to? You post a video much like the one called talking to Americans, and with it you try to prove that the US as a whole are racists or more so than the rest of the world while at the same time you are the most racist person on MLW.

[Guest Derek L]

don't hesitate to point out exactly where your 15-20 year dated sources specifically draw direct reference to your claim. While you're doing that, don't forget to step-up and address the more salient point you keep deflecting away from... the one that has you failing to substantiate your assertion that, "guns prevented someone from dying".

The ATF/FBI estimated that 3 1/2 to 4 million guns where sold a year in the States prior to 9/11, after 9/11, the average increased to near 7 million, with record breaking sales post Obama, with over 10 million alone being sold in 2011........Nearly as many guns have been sold in the States since Obama has been President, as there are Canadians.........

edit to add:

Now what percent of said guns were killing people?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Derek L

[bud]

Yep. A "sample of Americans." "A problem in the states." But of course if someone were to say that "terrorism is a problem in Islam" and then posted a video of extremist Muslims cutting off Pearl's head and committing other acts of terrorism as a "sample of Muslims," bud would be one of the first to be howling about it.

as posted before, you need to deal with this reality, sweetie:

there has been a 150 percent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth can often become the victims of school yard bullying.

racism and discrimination against muslims continues to increase in the united states. the idiot who mistook sikhs as muslims is a sample of this increased discrimination of muslims.

[Guest American Woman]

as posted before, you need to deal with this reality, sweetie:

there has been a 150 percent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth can often become the victims of school yard bullying.

racism and discrimination against muslims continues to increase in the united states. the idiot who mistook sikhs as muslims is a sample of this increased discrimination of muslims.

The more you post, the more you prove my point - so thank you for that.

[bud]

Disproportionately high in the US compared to? You post a video much like the one called talking to Americans,

you need to deal with this reality:

Thomas Perez, the assistant US attorney general for civil rights, said there had been a 150 per cent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims since 2001, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth are often the victims of bullying in schools.

and with it you try to prove that the US as a whole are racists or more so than the rest of the world while at the same time you are the most racist person on MLW.

i am the most racist person on MLW. okay then. thanks for coming out.

Edited August 7, 2012 by bud

[BC_chick]

Huh?? What accusations did I make about you?

I'd call you b*tch, but I'm afraid I'd get suspended, and you just ain't worth it, sweetie.

You insinuated I'm of the latter type of hypocite who believes Muslim extermism is not represenatative of Muslim society but this guy is representative of American culture.

Whereas I said no such thing and all I was pointing out was that the flip-side also goes and that you are NOT one of them.

Then you lost your marbles over it, calling me ignorant, saying I'm making accusations, along with the somewhat comical, somewhat disturbing 'sweetie' posturing followed by 'not' calling me a bitch.

I seem to have hit a nerve for some reason. Not sure why... I know you have nothing but love for Muslims.

[Signals.Cpl]

as posted before, you need to deal with this reality, sweetie:

there has been a 150 percent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth can often become the victims of school yard bullying.

racism and discrimination against muslims continues to increase in the united states. the idiot who mistook sikhs as muslims is a sample of this increased discrimination of muslims.

1) There is racist everywhere not just in the US.

2)How exactly do you know he mistook them for muslims? From what I read he was white supremacist, I don't know if you were aware of this, but they don't hate only muslims, they kind of hate everybody equally including jews, something you have in common with them.

[bud]

The more you post, the more you prove my point - so thank you for that.

sure thing sweetie. this is not the first time where you've imagined support for your so-called point and then pat yourself on the back.

Edited August 7, 2012 by bud

[Guest American Woman]

You insinuated I'm of the latter type of hypocite who believes Muslim extermism is not represenatative of Muslim society but this guy is representative of American culture.

No, I didn't. Where did I say anything about you?

Whereas I said no such thing and all I was pointing out was that the flip-side also goes and that you are NOT one of them.

Give me a break. You said "of course you are the exception" with a big ol laughing face. But of course you were saying that I'm not one of them.

Then you lost your marbles over it, calling me ignorant, saying I'm making accusations, along with the somewhat comical, somewhat disturbing 'sweetie' posturing followed by 'not' calling me a bitch.

First you make snide accusations - then you are dishonest about it. Why don't you have the guts to come out and say it?

I seem to have hit a nerve for some reason. Not sure why... I know you have nothing but love for Muslims.

And of course you're saying this sincerely.

Back up your accusations - or back off.

Edited August 7, 2012 by American Woman

[Signals.Cpl]

you need to deal with this reality:

Thomas Perez, the assistant US attorney general for civil rights, said there had been a 150 per cent jump in workplace discrimination against Muslims since 2001, often over religious dress and worship schedules, while Muslim youth are often the victims of bullying in schools.

Are we to hold the US at a higher standard than we hold ourselves? Are you not aware that there is increase in racism in Canada as well? You look at the US, hold them at an unrealistic standard while the rest of the world is doing exactly what the US is doing only in some cases much worse.

i am the most racist person on MLW. okay then. thanks for coming out.

You are, seeing as you have only one topic of discussion...the big bad jew...

[Guest American Woman]

You are, seeing as you have only one topic of discussion...the big bad jew...

Naw. Not just jews and israel - Rue called it correctly. He also posts about the big bad americans...........

Edited August 7, 2012 by American Woman

[Signals.Cpl]

Naw. Not just jews and israel - Rue called it correctly. He also posts about the big bad americans ...........

Yeah, but its always to point out how the big bad americans are supporting the big bad jew. If you read his posts you can have a clear view of his policies and what he is all about, genocide comes to mind.

[bud]

Are we to hold the US at a higher standard than we hold ourselves? Are you not aware that there is increase in racism in Canada as well? You look at the US, hold them at an unrealistic standard while the rest of the world is doing exactly what the US is doing only in some cases much worse.

the topic of this thread is about a man in the u.s. who allegedly mistook sikhs for muslims and went on a shooting rampage. we're not having a discussion on discrimination on muslims in the world. that said, from the research i've seen, discrimination against muslims in canada is not nearly as bad as it is in the states. people in canada seem to have a healthier awareness and live in less ignorance.

You are, seeing as you have only one topic of discussion...the big bad jew...

maybe you do, but i don't equate israel as being "the big bad jew". fyi: some of the most prominent critics of israel's treatment of palestinians happen to be jews.

now, back to u.s.' increasing discrimination against muslims.

Hate crimes against Muslims soared after Sept. 11, according to an FBI report released Monday that also shows that most hate offenses in 2001 were committed against African Americans.

The most dramatic change noted by the report was a more than 1,600 percent increase in reported hate crimes against Muslims -- a jump from 28 hate incidents in 2000 to 481 last year.

link

[Bonam]

From the article bud posted:

To be classified a hate crime, an incident must be motivated at least in part by bias, and evidence must support that. A hate crime also cannot merely be hate speech, such as the use of a racial epithet. There must be at least intimidation involved. The hate speech, however, can be the evidence that police need to classify an assault or other incident as a hate crime.

Note this definition. Someone says an unkind word and then glares menacingly at you. Hate crime!

Also:

Some increases may be because of more reporting by individuals and law enforcement agencies, according to the report. But the statistics do not include all hate crimes because some law enforcement agencies are still not reporting the data.

Anti-Muslim incidents were previously the second least reported, but in 2001, "presumably as a result of the heinous incidents that occurred on Sept. 11," they became the second-highest among religious-biased incidents, second only to 1,043 anti-Jewish incidents, according to the report.

So how much of the increase was merely due to increased reporting rates rather than increased prevalence of these hate crimes?

And lastly:

The most dramatic change noted by the report was a more than 1,600 percent increase in reported hate crimes against Muslims -- a jump from 28 hate incidents in 2000 to 481 last year.

...

After African Americans, the most victimized groups included Jews (1,196 victims), gay men (1,152 victims), whites (1,065 victims)

Note that both Jews and whites are victims of more hate crimes than Muslims, in America. Note also that the data bud presented was cherry picked specifically for the year 2001 individually. So putting it all together, scared people right in the wake of 9/11, may have uttered some racial remarks towards a Muslim here and there and tried to intimidate said Muslim away. And Muslims reported all this at much higher rates then before since it all became very prominent in the national consciousness after the attacks. And this, of course, is proof of how racism is pervading America in 2012.

Much like bud's rantings against Israel, his posts in this thread are also skewed and biased (to put it kindly) to the point of absurdity.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Bonam

[bud]

according to bonam:

To be classified a hate crime, an incident must be motivated at least in part by bias, and evidence must support that. A hate crime also cannot merely be hate speech, such as the use of a racial epithet. There must be at least intimidation involved. The hate speech, however, can be the evidence that police need to classify an assault or other incident as a hate crime.

=

Note this definition. Someone says an unkind word and then glares menacingly at you. Hate crime!

"sir, he gave me a menacingly glare"

"son, let us mark that evidence A"

yes, note this definition.

So how much of the increase was merely due to increased reporting rates rather than increased prevalence of these hate crimes?

or as the report said, the incidents increased after 9/11. you think before 9/11, muslims didn't bother reporting fires in their mosques, beatings and work place discrimination? they just suddenly decided to play victim and start reporting after 9/11?

Note that both Jews and whites are victims of more hate crimes than Muslims, in America.

note the difference in population; there are over 220 million whites, 6 millions jews and 2.5 million muslims. also note that jews have several well organized and vocal rights organizations including ADL.

Note also that the data bud presented was cherry picked specifically for the year 2001 individually. So putting it all together, scared people right in the wake of 9/11, may have uttered some racial remarks towards a Muslim here and there and tried to intimidate said Muslim away. And Muslims reported all this at much higher rates then before since it all became very prominent in the national consciousness after the attacks. And this, of course, is proof of how racism is pervading America in 2012.

perhaps more recent data from the FBI, will stop your denial that anti-muslim hate crime has increased since before 9/11?

Anti-Muslim hate crimes soared by an astounding 50% last year, skyrocketing over 2009 levels in a year marked by the vicious rhetoric of Islam-bashing politicians and activists, especially over the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" in New York City.

link

Much like bud's rantings against Israel, his posts in this thread are also skewed and biased (to put it kindly) to the point of absurdity.

you are also threatened by my criticism of israel's violations of human rights. this is because you condone israel's violations of human rights. there is no other reason why you'd engage in trying to defame me and spread misinformation. this happens when you're unable to justify israel's actions, without justifying violations of human rights.

[bleeding heart]

"ban guns".

Its kind of funny that no one has said guns should be banned, but pro-gunners claim that this is said and argue against it. But it wasn't said. No one said it. This is straight out of your hysterical imaginations.

Spot on.

And in fact, occasionally--very occasionally--someone here or there no doubt does say just that.

But most people don't say it. It's not an especially common notion.

Why such reflexive defensiveness over the subject, then? I'm not sure.

[bleeding heart]

1) There is racist everywhere not just in the US.

2)How exactly do you know he mistook them for muslims? From what I read he was white supremacist, I don't know if you were aware of this, but they don't hate only muslims, they kind of hate everybody equally including jews, something you have in common with them.

According to the Southen Poverty Law Centre, who watch these hate groups very closely, the Sikhs don't even appear on their radar. No doubt they consider Sikhs to be more or less unwanted in "White" country, or whatnot, but they haven't been even a rhetorically-targeted group.

More likely, the genius, like innumerable other ignorant geniuses, look at the turbans and think "bin Laden."

And just to clarify, they don't really hate everybody equally. They have a hierarchy, and actually different types of hate. The Jews are bad, because they're cruel, powerful, ingenious, talented creatures, as the story goes. They're not inferior; they're just bad. Whereas blacks and Latinos are actually slightly less than "normal" humans. Arabs, too, are lesser humans.

They really do think about these things (if we can call it "thinking") and rather delineate specific differences.

[Signals.Cpl]

the topic of this thread is about a man in the u.s. who allegedly mistook sikhs for muslims and went on a shooting rampage. we're not having a discussion on discrimination on muslims in the world. that said, from the research i've seen, discrimination against muslims in canada is not nearly as bad as it is in the states. people in canada seem to have a healthier awareness and live in less ignorance.

1)I haven't seen anything to suggest the guy mistook them for muslims.

2)Well when you are trying to put the US in the spot line as an intolerant country we have to look at others as well.

3)I don't know if you live in the same Canada, but racism is just as bad here, and it does not specifically target muslims but a wide variety of groups.

maybe you do, but i don't equate israel as being "the big bad jew". fyi: some of the most prominent critics of israel's treatment of palestinians happen to be jews.

Every topic you have started, and every topic you have involved yourself in has been about Israel, everything you say when we read it in as a complete "thought" leads me to believe that you would have no problem whatsoever disarming the jews and letting the Arabs have at them.

now, back to u.s.' increasing discrimination against muslims.

Hate crimes against Muslims soared after Sept. 11, according to an FBI report released Monday that also shows that most hate offenses in 2001 were committed against African Americans.

The most dramatic change noted by the report was a more than 1,600 percent increase in reported hate crimes against Muslims -- a jump from 28 hate incidents in 2000 to 481 last year.

link

So again, them big racists in the US are bad, lets not talk about the rest of the world because we are here to attack the only the US right? Ignoring that Europe has the same if not a much higher problem with racism, ignoring that we as well have a racism problem, you just kindly point out that the US is soooooo racist as a whole yet you don't want to discuss the rest of the world.

[Signals.Cpl]

According to the Southen Poverty Law Centre, who watch these hate groups very closely, the Sikhs don't even appear on their radar. No doubt they consider Sikhs to be more or less unwanted in "White" country, or whatnot, but they haven't been even a rhetorically-targeted group.

More likely, the genius, like innumerable other ignorant geniuses, look at the turbans and think "bin Laden."

And just to clarify, they don't really hate everybody equally. They have a hierarchy, and actually different types of hate. The Jews are bad, because they're cruel, powerful, ingenious, talented creatures, as the story goes. They're not inferior; they're just bad. Whereas blacks and Latinos are actually slightly less than "normal" humans. Arabs, too, are lesser humans.

They really do think about these things (if we can call it "thinking") and rather delineate specific differences.

To me, they hate everyone equally, if they hate you more than me but are willing to kill both of us, that does not make me feel any better. Also honestly does it even matter? He killed people, I don't see any reason to suggest he killed them due to mistaken identity, maybe they were the closest he could get. I don't think he cared who he hit, as long as they were non white and the "enemy".

[Bitsy]

They really do think about these things (if we can call it "thinking") and rather delineate specific differences.

It doesn't help that our #1 cable news network, Fox News, has TV hosts unable to 'delineate specific differences'.

Following the shooting at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin on Sunday, Fox News host Gregg Jarrett asked a nephew of one of the victims, "Have there been any prior acts of violence against members of the temple? Any anti-Semitic acts?"

Anti-Semitism is discrimination directed toward Jewish people, not Sikhs. Representatives of Fox News did not respond to a request for comment regarding the error.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/08/fox-host-asks-of-antisemitism-at-sikh-temple-131222.html