So I ask, what is or defines a Canadian?

Tilter · May 13, 2012

Are Québécois that define themselves first as French -Québécois really implying they aren't Canadians?

What else could it imply?

Are First Nations, that reside (now, some historically apparently never did), in Canada on their own territory or reserve Canadians in their mind?

Only if it suites the day, the situation and their bank account.

Are those that would leave Canada and ally themselves with Somali causes or to fight our NATO allies really Canadians?

I invite them to

leave Canada

along with their fake Canadian citizenship.

Are those that immigrate or claim and receive refugee status then return to visit or live for years on end in their former country of 'threat' Canadians?

A big NO for that one

Are those (immigrants -what ever),that only live in Canada frequently enough to gain benefits,,health care, rescue etc. really Canadians?

NO We need CANADIANS who are Canadian & only Canadian. The "Canadian in need is a Canadian indeed" should be given a choice:

Live here & contribute

or

LEAVE

I think the criteria should be examined and possibly tightened up.

You sure got that one right.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Tilter

Signals.Cpl · May 13, 2012

It's called logic. I seem to recall I asked you to dispute the logic of my suggestion we bring in people who are more technologically, socially and linguistically compatible with our culture. I believe you scurried away without a reply. Care to make one now,

Come on. Gift us with the well-thought out positions we've come to expect from The Big Giant Ass.

Canada should want immigrants who do not meet the requirements(Language, Finances,others) and then fight tooth and nail to meet those requirements in order to come to Canada. When my parents were coming to Canada there was a requirement to bring a certain amount of money to Canada that money was a lot in Eastern Europe and they did not have it so what they did along with the thousands of others was work harder get the money might take a year or 2 or 3 but they get it. I would rather have someone who worked hard to meet the requirements rather then someone who did not need to work at all to meet the requirements.

bleeding heart · May 13, 2012

Canada should want immigrants who do not meet the requirements(Language, Finances,others) and then fight tooth and nail to meet those requirements in order to come to Canada. When my parents were coming to Canada there was a requirement to bring a certain amount of money to Canada that money was a lot in Eastern Europe and they did not have it so what they did along with the thousands of others was work harder get the money might take a year or 2 or 3 but they get it. I would rather have someone who worked hard to meet the requirements rather then someone who did not need to work at all to meet the requirements.

That's an excellent point, one that is rarely mentioned in these discussions, but I don't think it's all that uncommon in reality (as in the case with your family). My friend tutors first and second-year university students in English, and she says that foreign students routinely work much more diligently at it, and take it very seriously...moreso than the majority of Canadian-born students she has.

Jack Weber · May 13, 2012

It's called logic. I seem to recall I asked you to dispute the logic of my suggestion we bring in people who are more technologically, socially and linguistically compatible with our culture. I believe you scurried away without a reply. Care to make one now,

Come on. Gift us with the well-thought out positions we've come to expect from The Big Giant Ass.

Well...It's twisted logic David Duke might come up with...

Could you tell us all why someone who lives in the UK or Europe would leave a relatively high standard of living environment and pack themsleves (and presumably) their family up and move to another relatively similar high standard of living environment???

I mean,what's the incentive here??

The reason we had high levels of European immigration in the past is because we were part of the British Empire and,here's the kicker for ya',there were high levels of poverty in Europe due to bad economic policies (see European Mercantilism) and close to 500 years of tribal conflict on the continent...

But we know that the historical evidence for you is easy to overlook,what with your massive grey matter grappling with the globes problems...It's much easier to try to disguise your cultural elitism and xenophobia as an intellectual excercise,eh Argus?

Edited May 13, 2012 by Jack Weber

jacee · May 13, 2012

Actually many of the problems are just flat out bullshit fabricated by xenophobic tards looking for some other group to use a scapegoat for everything wrong.

Right on.

THANK YOU DRE!

Mapleleafweb is as always infested with white supremacist 'thinkers' (I use the term loosely.) who, while a tiny scurrying bunch of rodents, populate online forums to spew their hateful propaganda.

It gets very tiresome.

It's an embarassment.

(Maybe a coordinated action is in order? Maybe a thread dedicated to that discussion?)

In this particular thread it appears that white supremacist thinkers are confusing ethnicity with citizenship. Canada is founded as ethnically Indigenous, French and British, and our systems of law and justice reflect that.

Citizenship, however, is a different issue, and a citizen is a citizen is a citizen: One citizen, one vote.

Ethnicity is irrelevant to citizenship.

Those who keep pounding the 'ethnic superiority' drum are those who deter rather than contribute to economic, social and national progress.

Moonlight Graham · May 13, 2012

I would be interesting to ask that question to a foreigner and their response.

Why? Foreigners aren't Canadian citizens so their opinion doesn't mean much to this topic.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

bush_cheney2004 · May 13, 2012

Why? Foreigners aren't Canadian citizens so their opinion doesn't mean much to this topic.

Gee, one wouldn't draw that conclusion based on so many Canadian opinions about foreign topics!

jacee · May 13, 2012

And no, when I see some of these immigrants walking along in their (to me) weird ethnic costumes, with very little ability to converse in English, I don't think of them as Canadian in any way, shape or form.

Ya?

When I walk down the street and see women in burkas and Neo-Nazi/white supremacists ...

I'LL WALK WITH THE WOMEN IN BURKAS EVERY TIME!!!

You just aren't Canadian enough for me, Argus.

But I'll grant you a small 'white (iceberg) nation' waaaaaaaay up north, as indicated previously.

Because a Canadian, as the whole world knows us, is someone who appreciates ethnic diversity.

That's how we are known. That's who we are. That IS the Canadian identity.

And you don't meet the 'criteria', imo.

Edited May 13, 2012 by jacee

guyser · May 14, 2012

As someone who's family has been here since 1796, and has worked hard in building this country and then some one shows up at the door and he is as canadian as me, sorry that is BS. My family earned the right to call ourselves canadian, we did not buy our way in. You are a born canadian or a immigrant. So many people have forgot canada existed before trudeau came to power and sold out the country.

And my family tree goes back to 1606 .

You aint as Canadian as me, and frankly, my ancestors thought you guys were lazy, we were the hardworking ones.

You guys just showed up at the door , we were drunk and let you in since we wanted the party to keep going.

Man, what a headache we ,y family awoke and found out your family had moved in.

There went the neighbourhood.

And for the record, my nieces, 2 of whom were born in Venzuala, are as Canadian as Maple Syrup , albeit with dark hair and skin and speaking 3 languages.

Michael Hardner · May 14, 2012

As someone who's family has been here since 1796, and has worked hard in building this country and then some one shows up at the door and he is as canadian as me, sorry that is BS. My family earned the right to call ourselves canadian, we did not buy our way in. You are a born canadian or a immigrant. So many people have forgot canada existed before trudeau came to power and sold out the country.

If Canada made some kind of special deal with your family to give you special rights, please let the rest of us know right away. Until that time, we'll assume that there is one level of Canadian citizenship here which is afforded to those born here equally with people who immigrate legally.

Argus · May 14, 2012

Canada should want immigrants who do not meet the requirements(Language, Finances,others) and then fight tooth and nail to meet those requirements in order to come to Canada.

So you're suggesting we ask for immigrants who speak no English and have no education or job skills? :rolleyes:

Argus · May 14, 2012

Otherwise known as the Big Giant Ass opened up and disgorged its noxious contents thusly:

Well...It's twisted logic David Duke might come up with...

Ah yes, typical of Weber. Can't come with any kind of reasonable argument so resorts to that old lefty standby of accusing someone of racism.

Hey, it's okay! We get it! You have no actual logical, economic or sociological reasons behind your position to back it up. So, angry at being asked for justification you don't posses you have to knee-jerk accuse me of being in some way less moral than you for having a position which IS, in fact, based on logic.

It's a weak hand, but it's all you've got, right?

Could you tell us all why someone who lives in the UK or Europe would leave a relatively high standard of living environment and pack themsleves (and presumably) their family up and move to another relatively similar high standard of living environment???

Gee, could be a 50% unemployment rate for those under 25 in several European countries. Could be massive economic issues across the continent, but hell, that really doesn't matter. Your question is irrelevant. All I suggested was that we try to get people from those countries first. I didn't assert that we could get all the immigrants we wanted. I just said they should be our first choice. And we do know that a lot of Europeans are looking for better climes these days, so why the hell not let them try here?

But we know that the historical evidence for you is easy to overlook,what with your massive grey matter grappling with the globes problems...It's much easier to try to disguise your cultural elitism and xenophobia as an intellectual excercise,eh Argus?

Yes, yes, I know. I'm evil. I'm a horrible person. Good rebuttal! It completely masks that you didn't actually answer the question! No one will even realize it!

But that's why you're the Big Giant Ass. The rest of us can only look on in awe.

Signals.Cpl · May 14, 2012

So you're suggesting we ask for immigrants who speak no English and have no education or job skills?

Did you read the rest? You want people who fought hard to achieve the requirements rather then people who rolled out of bed and already met them. You can have a limited pool of people or you could open up the process to everyone as long as they meet the same high standards.

Argus · May 14, 2012

Ya?

When I walk down the street and see women in burkas and Neo-Nazi/white supremacists ...

I'LL WALK WITH THE WOMEN IN BURKAS EVERY TIME!!!

You just aren't Canadian enough for me, Argus.

But I'll grant you a small 'white (iceberg) nation' waaaaaaaay up north, as indicated previously.

Because a Canadian, as the whole world knows us, is someone who appreciates ethnic diversity.

That's how we are known. That's who we are. That IS the Canadian identity.

And you don't meet the 'criteria', imo.

Tell us the truth, jacee. How to solve the problem of rain coming through an open window strains your mental capacities to the utmost, and gives you a headache, right?

Honestly. People wonder why I mock the Left so much? Infantile would be a charitable description for some of them.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Argus

Argus · May 14, 2012

Did you read the rest? You want people who fought hard to achieve the requirements rather then people who rolled out of bed and already met them. You can have a limited pool of people or you could open up the process to everyone as long as they meet the same high standards.

It's a nice theory but impractical. Do you want a doctor operating on you who finished first in his class or the guy who barely scraped by after multiple all-night study sessions and cases of energy drinks?

Signals.Cpl · May 14, 2012

It's a nice theory but impractical. Do you want a doctor operating on you who finished first in his class or the guy who barely scraped by after multiple all-night study sessions and cases of energy drinks?

No the question is would you want the doctor who barely worked to achieve an 80, or someone who overcame every obstacle that came their way and achieved an 80.

Here is the pool of potential immigrants:

Britain

France

America

Australia

New Zealand

And that about it for the english and or french speaking potential sources of immigrants... Now what? Where do you get the workforce needed to support the aging population of Canada?

Jack Weber · May 14, 2012

Gee, could be a 50% unemployment rate for those under 25 in several European countries. Could be massive economic issues across the continent, but hell, that really doesn't matter. Your question is irrelevant. All I suggested was that we try to get people from those countries first. I didn't assert that we could get all the immigrants we wanted. I just said they should be our first choice. And we do know that a lot of Europeans are looking for better climes these days, so why the hell not let them try here?

Yes, yes, I know. I'm evil. I'm a horrible person. Good rebuttal! It completely masks that you didn't actually answer the question! No one will even realize it!

But that's why you're the Big Giant Ass. The rest of us can only look on in awe.

No...All YOU suggested was that we use "logic" and basically only take (English first) immigrants from the UK...And then you went your standard elitist rant about how evry other culture is beneath you...

Spectacular..Nothing xenophobic or dripping with self important cultural superiority about any of that.I also note you went to Spain and not France for the next phase of your personal quest to reEurocentrify our immgration system...Of course we all know your,shall we say,antipathy to all things French...

All part of your (self serving) intellectual excercise...

You're not an evil person...You're just a self important buffoon who thinks he's the brightest guy in the room and has complete and total disdain for anyone who questions that...

Nevermind the fact that you obviously have a very insular and culturally supremacist view of things...The only thing that makes you different from an abhorrent character like Lictor is that at least Lictor has the minerals to admit it!!!

You're just a blowhard coward dressing that up as an intellectual excercise...

But keep swinging for the fences,kiddo...You'll get some wood on the ball someday!

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jack Weber

Argus · May 14, 2012

No the question is would you want the doctor who barely worked to achieve an 80, or someone who overcame every obstacle that came their way and achieved an 80.

Here is the pool of potential immigrants:

Britain

France

America

Australia

New Zealand

And that about it for the english and or french speaking potential sources of immigrants... Now what? Where do you get the workforce needed to support the aging population of Canada?

My point is that you take the best immigrants FIRST, and that the best immigrants are those who are already the most linguistically, technologically and socially compatible with Canada. Yes, those above come first, but the rest of the Europe comes next. Many throughout Europe can speak English, and they are clearly more technologically and educationally and socially compatible with Canada than people from Indonesia or Pakistan or Nigeria. Technologically advanced parts of Asia such as Hong Kong and Singapore and South Korea would come next. And those countries whose present immigrants have, over the years, been shown to do comparatively poorly in Canada would be considered last.

Argus · May 14, 2012

No...All YOU suggested was that we use "logic" and basically only take (English first) immigrants from the UK...And then you went your standard elitist rant about how evry other culture is beneath you..

Ah, a new debating tactic! Invent positions and then sturdily condemn them! Not very original, but at least a mild change from simply thumping your pulpit and sternly denouncing my inferior morality.

However, since I neither went on an er 'elitist rant' nor suggested only taking people from the UK I'll pass.

Spectacular..Nothing xenophobic or dripping with self important cultural superiority about any of that.I also note you went to Spain and not France for the next phase of your personal quest to reEurocentrify our immgration system...Of course we all know your,shall we say,antipathy to all things French...

Hmm, and here I thought I'd pointed out the 25% unemployment rate (50%) for those under 25 and horrid economic circumstances of Spain as the reason... Oh well, clearly that was just a justification for my race hatred of the French!

You're not an evil person...You're just a self important buffoon who thinks he's the brightest guy in the room and has complete and total disdain for anyone who questions that...

Not at all! I simply have complete and total disdain for YOU!

And in a crowd full of Webers and Jacees, well, yes, even a man with a candle seems bright.

Nevermind the fact that you obviously have a very insular and culturally supremacist view of things...The only thing that makes you different from an abhorrent character like Lictor is that at least Lictor has the minerals to admit it!!!
You're just a blowhard coward dressing that up as an intellectual excercise..

.

Blah, blah blah, blah blah. More insults and more arrogant presumption of moral purity on your part and moral evil on mine.

But hey, don't worry! Combined with the startlingly original strawman condemnation I'm sure that no one will notice that YET AGAIN you failed to answer the question! You yet again could not come up with any logical rebuttal to my principal argument that it would make sense for us to get as many qualified immigrants from Europe first, before turning to the rest of the world.

Oh, wait, did I just point that out again? Darn! I spoiled your whole complicated stratagem!

Now you'll have to come back with more juvenile insults and sneering references to my lack of character to make sure no one notices you fail to answer that once again in your next 'rebutal'. :rolleyes:

Jack Weber · May 14, 2012

Ah, a new debating tactic! Invent positions and then sturdily condemn them! Not very original, but at least a mild change from simply thumping your pulpit and sternly denouncing my inferior morality.

However, since I neither went on an er 'elitist rant' nor suggested only taking people from the UK I'll pass.

Hmm, and here I thought I'd pointed out the 25% unemployment rate (50%) for those under 25 and horrid economic circumstances of Spain as the reason... Oh well, clearly that was just a justification for my race hatred of the French!

Not at all! I simply have complete and total disdain for YOU!

And in a crowd full of Webers and Jacees, well, yes, even a man with a candle seems bright.

.

Blah, blah blah, blah blah. More insults and more arrogant presumption of moral purity on your part and moral evil on mine.

But hey, don't worry! Combined with the startlingly original strawman condemnation I'm sure that no one will notice that YET AGAIN you failed to answer the question! You yet again could not come up with any logical rebuttal to my principal argument that it would make sense for us to get as many qualified immigrants from Europe first, before turning to the rest of the world.

Oh, wait, did I just point that out again? Darn! I spoiled your whole complicated stratagem!

Now you'll have to come back with more juvenile insults and sneering references to my lack of character to make sure no one notices you fail to answer that once again in your next 'rebutal'.

Spare us all the self righteous sanctimony,Argus...

You want english speaking immigrants from the UK because you think they are culturally superior to everyone else,including non-English speaking Europeans...(oh yeah...It's about the 25% unemployment...)

Nothing more,nothing less...

You are the one throwing out veiled ethnic insults and slurs at those you feel are beneath you...No strawman required...

Standard self-absorbed elitist behaviour...

You're not breaking any new ground here...You are not engaging in any intellectual or logical excercise.You are just trying to justify and satisfy your insular and xenophobic ideas...

You haven't spoiled any strategem because your MO had been laid threadbare by many here...

Again,at least Lictor had/has the minerals to admit what he is...It's a dispicable position but at least he knows what he is...

You can't admit this about yourself...

I think we all know why,don't we?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jack Weber

Signals.Cpl · May 14, 2012

My point is that you take the best immigrants FIRST, and that the best immigrants are those who are already the most linguistically, technologically and socially compatible with Canada. Yes, those above come first, but the rest of the Europe comes next. Many throughout Europe can speak English, and they are clearly more technologically and educationally and socially compatible with Canada than people from Indonesia or Pakistan or Nigeria. Technologically advanced parts of Asia such as Hong Kong and Singapore and South Korea would come next. And those countries whose present immigrants have, over the years, been shown to do comparatively poorly in Canada would be considered last.

So instead of having standards you will have quotas? Instead of inviting a well qualified immigrant from Ukraine we will invite an under qualified immigrant from Britain because he speaks english? How do you judge which nationality is and should be let in the country first? How many points would you put on nationality?

If you want the best to come to Canada, make a high standard, if you want the remainder to come to Canada while the other immigrant receiving nations take the best make the quotas. Nationality has nothing to do with how hard you work or what kind of person you are.

Jack Weber · May 14, 2012

So instead of having standards you will have quotas? Instead of inviting a well qualified immigrant from Ukraine we will invite an under qualified immigrant from Britain because he speaks english? How do you judge which nationality is and should be let in the country first? How many points would you put on nationality?

If you want the best to come to Canada, make a high standard, if you want the remainder to come to Canada while the other immigrant receiving nations take the best make the quotas. Nationality has nothing to do with how hard you work or what kind of person you are.

Spot on...

Cultural supremacists and xenophobes,like Argus, never get this simple fact...

Michael Hardner · May 14, 2012

Cultural supremacists and xenophobes,like Argus, never get this simple fact...

Argus may or may not be as you say. As long as you're not insulting, it's up to you to prove it. You'll find him a lot more difficult to argue with than Lictor, too.

Jack Weber · May 14, 2012

Argus may or may not be as you say. As long as you're not insulting, it's up to you to prove it. You'll find him a lot more difficult to argue with than Lictor, too.

I agree...

I turned Lictor inside out...And it didn't take very long!!!That guy had a very poor grasp of history.

Although,I'm waiting for Argus to trot out Lictor's "cultural Marxism" line because he's using the same vein of "logic" here.

Argus is exactly as I've described him.He's an admitted elitist and now an admitted cultural supremacist...Not exactly a spectacular combination...

May 15, 2012

Are Québécois that define themselves first as French -Québécois really implying they aren't Canadians?

Are First Nations, that reside (now, some historically apparently never did), in Canada on their own territory or reserve Canadians in their mind?

Are those that would leave Canada and ally themselves with Somali causes or to fight our NATO allies really Canadians?

Are those that immigrate or claim and receive refugee status then return to visit or live for years on end in their former country of 'threat' Canadians?

Are those (immigrants -what ever),that only live in Canada frequently enough to gain benefits,,health care, rescue etc. really Canadians?

I think the criteria should be examined and possibly tightened up.

A) I think it's time for a divorce from Quebec.

I seldom see First Nations as a community or 'nation' contributing positively to Canada as Canadians. Some individual Natives certainly are openly proud Canadians and have fought as Canadians for Canada. I am certainly open to have that observation shown to be erroneous.

C) Those that leave to fight for their former countries are to me split in their loyalties just as are those with dual citizenship that hold office. However, those that fight against us or our allies (NATO) are to me traitors that should be tried as such.

D.) Those Canadians of convenience should have their citizenship revoked if they remain out of our country and pay no taxes for a 'given' specified time. say 3 years for arguments sake..

Now Those are positions, fish or cut bait.