F-35 Purchase

[eyeball]

This is a bunch of BS.

A bag of it you mean.

[GostHacked]

What is it that you have again'st military expenditures....just over 1 % of our GDP gets soent on our miltary, and still that is to much...You've seen whats happening around the world

I don't have a problem with military expenditures, IF THEY ARE NEEDED AND RESPONSIBLE IN THEIR SPENDING. Just look at the 4 subs Canada got from the UK.. Several years later 35 million dollars over budget and now ONE is actually in the water undergoing trials. Do you want to guess at how much was spent, and how much MORE it will cost to get the other three subs up to par? What can 35 million be spent where it would have the most impact?

Not to mention we have not even acquired the first F-35. Even the USA is not flying them yet. It's still being tested. Think about it.

i think your a pretty smart guy to know that it would not take much for this crap to reach our shores...Yugoslavia once thought the same nothing can happen to us....the list is endless...but yet you remain convinced that we are superman, nothing could or would happen to us...

Do you think we'd get any NATO help if that was the case? Is that not part of the reason we are in alliances like that? Because none of these countries can fight off an invasion force from another country. And if the threat is 'terrorism', then none of this high tech expensive military tech is usefull (edit) unless you want to start using it in Canadian urban centers, which is not far down the line considering how militarized many police departments are.

We are not superman, but there really is no threat of terrorism from abroad. Unless we continue to poke our noses in other peoples business. Something discussed in other threads termed 'blowback'.

I'd rather bring you home and help defend the borders of Canada instead of fucking up a country because of obligations to these alliances with other countries who can 'go it alone' , based on their foreign policies.

If you get killed over there, you are not dying for my freedoms. You are just dead. My freedoms will be taken away by our government , not some rag heads in the desert or hiding in caves. That is something you and many do not understand.

I'd rather have you die from a happy life and old age here at home. You dieing by an IED in a foreign land is a waste of your life and a waste of our military and national resources.

Edited April 25, 2012 by GostHacked

[Topaz]

The F-35 is not right for the Canadian Air Force, says retired fleet manager, especially in the north. Really? Hopefully, he'll be able to tell his views in the upcoming hearings on the F-35. http://www.canada.com/business/serious+mismatch+Canada+North+retired+colonel+says/6513252/story.html

[Smallc]

His views don't make any sense. This aircraft has TWICE the range of the current fleet of CF-18s. Also, the idea that drones are going to quickly supplant human pilots in these type of aircraft is funny.

[dre]

You've seen whats happening around the world

Yes I have, and what we see is that the biggest existential threat to western nations is their own spending, and their own debt, and the impact that debt and spending have on the economies. Thats why many nations are already making plans to shrink military spending, and you are going to see much deeper cuts in both defense and social spending over the next 20 years.

The party is just about over.

[DogOnPorch]

Thats why many nations are already making plans to shrink military spending, and you are going to see much deeper cuts in both defense and social spending over the next 20 years.

Really? Which countries?

[dre]

Really? Which countries?

2/3's of Europe, and the United States for starters. More than 18 European countries have cut military spending by more than 10%.

http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/resultoutput/trends

In Europe, especially Western & Central Europe, most countries have been imposing austerity measures to reduce their budget deficits, with heavy cuts in public expenditure, usually including military expenditure. Since 2008, two thirds of countries in Europe have cut military spending, although the rates of cuts have varied considerably. Some of the largest cuts have been in Central Europe, where the generally weaker economies have been unable to sustain such large budget deficits. Eighteen European countries have seen real-terms falls of more than 10% in military spending since 2008, of which 13 are from Central Europe. Eight of these have made cuts of greater than 20%, with all but one from Central Europe. The largest fall has been in Latvia, by 51%. In Western Europe, the largest falls have generally been in countries facing acute debt crises: Greece (26%), Spain (18%), Italy (16%), and Ireland (11%), as well as Belgium (12%).

US military spending in 2011 amounted to $711 billion, a nominal increase on 2010 ($698 billion), but a fall of 1.2% in real terms - the first such fall since 1998.

And this is just the beginning.

[DogOnPorch]

2/3's of Europe, and the United States for starters. More than 18 European countries have cut military spending by more than 10%.

http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/resultoutput/trends

And this is just the beginning.

Ah so, according to you, our weak-ass Allies are going to get even weaker, so we should too. Sounds like a plan. How about the Red Chinese? Any plans on their end to become hippies like the Europeans? How about Russia? The MiG plant is closing, I'm guessing?

[dre]

Ah so, according to you, our weak-ass Allies are going to get even weaker, so we should too. Sounds like a plan. How about the Red Chinese? Any plans on their end to become hippies like the Europeans? How about Russia? The MiG plant is closing, I'm guessing?

Im not saying what we should or shouldnt do. Im talking about the fiscal realty faced by the western world. Our government cannot even afford to pay its own employees without borrowing from foreigners.

[DogOnPorch]

Im not saying what we should or shouldnt do. Im talking about the fiscal realty faced by the western world. Our government cannot even afford to pay its own employees without borrowing from foreigners.

Then your 'government' is too big.

[Guest Derek L]

blame it on..... an unknown bureaucrat!

Harper Conservatives "officially" backtrack on F-35 purchase

Well there we go, all is right again in the world, said “unnamed” bureaucrat will be punished, the Harper regime Government will shift the process to public works, the Auditor General will get to speak later this week to the members of the Public Accounts Committee and then we’ll buy the F-35.………Easy-Peasy

I wonder though why the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada is worried, since as mentioned by numerous members and supporters of the Opposition, if we don’t purchase the F-35, we can still get the pork laden contracts……..Are their fears unfounded? If so, why does the LPC & NDP not support the men and women working in Canada’s aerospace industry?

Edited April 26, 2012 by Derek L

[dre]

Then your 'government' is too big.

Yes, and expanding its security arm would grow it more, and offers no ROI whatsoever.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, and expanding its security arm would grow it more, and offers no ROI whatsoever.

I'm sure there are many like yourself that want to see Canada's military either disbanded or simply allowed to rust away. But, the unfortunate news for you is that America will not protect us if we don't put in some effort.

[cybercoma]

This guy has some serious credentials and says the F35 is a terrible idea. I haven't said much on the planes themselves, as I focused on the gov handling of it, but this article doesn't make these jets sound like a good plan. http://www.theprovince.com/touch/business/story.html?id=6513252&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Guest Derek L]

This guy has some serious credentials and says the F35 is a terrible idea. I haven't said much on the planes themselves, as I focused on the gov handling of it, but this article doesn't make these jets sound like a good plan. http://www.theprovince.com/touch/business/story.html?id=6513252&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Colonel Maillet retired in '01....Colonel Maillet.......Now it's doesn't mention the exact date, but the X-35 had only won the JSF Competition that year………So I fail to see how the Colonel would have any “inside information” pertaining to the program………….As for his opinion on the suitability of a “single engine aircraft in the arctic”, well I’d suggest he explains the service of the F-16 (single engine) used by both the Americans and Norwegians for over 30 years up North……The Norwegians themselves, base over 2/3rds their fleet within the Arctic circle……As for “range”, as mentioned by smallc, the F-35 carries more internal then our current Hornet carriers with external drop tanks…………

[punked]

Well there we go, all is right again in the world, said “unnamed” bureaucrat will be punished, the Harper regime Government will shift the process to public works, the Auditor General will get to speak later this week to the members of the Public Accounts Committee and then we’ll buy the F-35.………Easy-Peasy

I wonder though why the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada is worried, since as mentioned by numerous members and supporters of the Opposition, if we don’t purchase the F-35, we can still get the pork laden contracts……..Are their fears unfounded? If so, why does the LPC & NDP not support the men and women working in Canada’s aerospace industry?

Gee I don't know why the Aerospace industry would be worried when one large part of very expensive project feel through maybe they are worried Canada would be the first domino to fall? They already have less orders then they thought they would.

[dre]

I'm sure there are many like yourself that want to see Canada's military either disbanded or simply allowed to rust away. But, the unfortunate news for you is that America will not protect us if we don't put in some effort.

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

[CPCFTW]

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

Who will be borrowing anything? The budget projects a surplus by 2015-2016... will we have paid anything for the F35s by then?

We already did all of our borrowing for real socialism, and what did we get from it? A bunch of artsy hipsters in Montreal demanding to borrow more so they don't have to work/pay for their boutique degree.

We are for the most part focusing on paying back the foreigners at this time but our progress has been delayed by the recession.

Speaking of foreigners.. it would be nice to have some modern jet fighters in the event that the foreigners get upset about Westerners defaulting on their debt, and come looking to bust some kneecaps.

Edited April 26, 2012 by CPCFTW

[DogOnPorch]

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

Indeed. Rusting away it is.

Re: Global Policing.

1] What happened the last two times America (and its Allies) decided it wasn't playing world policeman? Trick question.

2]Do you expect America (and its Allies other than Canada) to both solve and stay out of conflicts at the same time? This while enjoying the benefits of of said world policing?

3]Or perhaps it is that you believe in the ultimate goodwill of humans towards other humans in this Age of Aquarius? That is...the days of Canada having enemies are now over so less than the best will do?

Edited April 26, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[dre]

Indeed. Rusting away it is.

Re: Global Policing.

1] What happened the last two times America (and its Allies) decided it wasn't playing world policeman? Trick question.

2]Do you expect America (and its Allies other than Canada) to both solve and stay out of conflicts at the same time? This while enjoying the benefits of of said world policing?

3]Or perhaps it is that you believe in the ultimate goodwill of humans towards other humans in this Age of Aquarius? That is...the days of Canada having enemies are now over so less than the best will do?

Re: Global Policing.

1] What happened the last two times America (and its Allies) decided it wasn't playing world policeman? Trick question.

The most recent time is Syria, so far. The last one before that was probably Russia / Georgia. Many would present a case for military involvement in both cases.

2]Do you expect America (and its Allies other than Canada) to both solve and stay out of conflicts at the same time? This while enjoying the benefits of of said world policing?

Not really. I expect nation states to act in their own interests, and various different "coalitions" doing various things at various times. If Canada has a direct interest in a certain foreign policy then we should participate. Otherwise we should only participate in extreme cases.

Or perhaps it is that you believe in the ultimate goodwill of humans towards other humans in this Age of Aquarius? That is...the days of Canada having enemies are now over so less than the best will do?

Hey... who believes in the good will of humans? Youre the one saying that I should pay taxes that go towards fixing other peoples problems. Id rather pay down my mortgage with that money, unless a direct threat emerges.

[cybercoma]

Colonel Maillet retired in '01....Colonel Maillet.......Now it's doesn't mention the exact date, but the X-35 had only won the JSF Competition that year………So I fail to see how the Colonel would have any “inside information” pertaining to the program………….As for his opinion on the suitability of a “single engine aircraft in the arctic”, well I’d suggest he explains the service of the F-16 (single engine) used by both the Americans and Norwegians for over 30 years up North……The Norwegians themselves, base over 2/3rds their fleet within the Arctic circle……As for “range”, as mentioned by smallc, the F-35 carries more internal then our current Hornet carriers with external drop tanks…………

So your position is that this former fleet manager and aerospace engineer is wrong about the capabilities and suitability of the F-35? Because given his education and experience, it seems like he would know what he's talking about.

[Army Guy]

I dont want to disband the military, or the airforce, but I also dont want to spend borrowed money on global socialism in the form of world policing.

so did yoyu mind when military budgets were slashed to fund other depts and programs, resulting in our current state of affairs.

[Army Guy]

So your position is that this former fleet manager and aerospace engineer is wrong about the capabilities and suitability of the F-35? Because given his education and experience, it seems like he would know what he's talking about.

So your postion is that this guy knows more than the rest of the Airforce chain of command, Not to challage a full Col who's expertise lie in manging the F-18 project, yes he would very knowledgable in the intel he was exposed to...but how much is that? i would not take his word over the subject matter experts with full access to all the details...

[Guest Derek L]

So your position is that this former fleet manager and aerospace engineer is wrong about the capabilities and suitability of the F-35? Because given his education and experience, it seems like he would know what he's talking about.

Yup. When did he retire? There wasn't even an F-35 in 2001, but an X-35 & X-32.....Again, as I’ve said, I question his opinion, since the two major points, the single engine & range, are very much false concerns when contrasted with the F-35........

[Guest Derek L]

So your postion is that this guy knows more than the rest of the Airforce chain of command, Not to challage a full Col who's expertise lie in manging the F-18 project, yes he would very knowledgable in the intel he was exposed to...but how much is that? i would not take his word over the subject matter experts with full access to all the details...

Within the all the Air Forces (And a few Navies), of all the partner nations & Singapore, Israel and Japan……..