F-35 Purchase

[cybercoma]

you clearly are full aware of the most recent cost estimates... you simply chose to leverage the (now) dated link reference for your own ends/purpose. MLW member punked didn't post that particular link to highlight acquisition costs; clearly, MLW member punked explicitly referenced that (now) dated link to showcase that the costing being done included both acquisition and operational costs. Why are you playing such a dickwad game here?

I love how MLW member waldo always adds "MLW member" before posters' handles, rather than just writing their handle.

[eyeball]

China is a resource hog and the vast majority of its people are little more than peasants right now. The coming resource war is already heating up on the African continent between China and the United States. Unless we begin siding with the Chinese, we're going to need the equipment to assist the United States against China. The latter, by the way, is working on their own 5th gen jet. Believe me. We need these planes.

So why are we rushing to send our manufacturing capacity as well as much oil as we can to this implacably heinous resource hog?

WTF is the matter with this picture?

[bush_cheney2004]

.....What we should be deeply concerned about however is the intent to use these planes offensively, while invading or other wise interfering in other countries and regions of the world.

No problem.....do it for THE FISH! Don't you remember the Great Turbot War?

[Guest Derek L]

if I recall correctly, MLW punked was specifically asked to provide references from U.S., UK, France, etc. Again, the focus of that request was one asking to present examples where a clear delineation of acquisition versus operational costing was being presented by other countries/militaries.

again, you are fully aware of the most recent increases to the cost estimates. Why would you purposely revert back, repeatedly, to the dated cost numbers that have no bearing/relevance to today's cost? Why would you do that... why did you do that - repeatedly?

As I’ve stated, via my broken record, these various figures of associated different costs involved in the purchase of the F-35 have been known figures, using known accounting methods for years…..Hiding in plain sight if you will.

The Previous Liberal Government knew and understood the cost of maintaining the Hornet fleet with their time in Government, as made evident by the cuts to 1/3rd the fleet during their tenure.

[eyeball]

No problem.....do it for THE FISH! Don't you remember the Great Turbot War?

Barely, I do remember quite vividly however the USCG boats that would charge up to us with a big bone in their teeth if we fished anywhere near the location of an economic exclusion border that our stupid capitals can't agree on and are still fighting over.

As for our sides boats, Ottawa caved to US pressure to get rid of them.

We should blame this on Diefenbaker and Tories caving to US pressure to not be the 4th biggest military power on Earth decades ago.

Right-wing conservatism aside for the moment, I've long maintained and still do that the 2nd biggest threat to our sovereignty and national borders is from the south not the north, east or west.

[waldo]

As I’ve stated, via my broken record, these various figures of associated different costs involved in the purchase of the F-35 have been known figures, using known accounting methods for years…..Hiding in plain sight if you will.

yes, your record is clearly broken!

Auditor General's Report:

- National Defence did not provide complete information in a timely manner. For example, briefing materials prepared for decision makers did not explain the basis for and limitations of projections of industrial benefits to Canadian companies, and the risks of relying on the projections for decision making. In addition, briefing materials did not inform senior decision makers, central agencies, and the Minister of the problems and associated risks of relying on the F-35 to replace the CF-18. Nor did National Defence provide complete cost information to parliamentarians.

- National Defence likely underestimated the full life-cycle costs of the F-35. The budgets for the F-35 acquisition (CAN$9 billion) and sustainment (CAN$16 billion) were initially established in 2008 without the aid of complete cost and other information. Some of that information will not be available until years from now. If the budgets prove insufficient to cover total costs, the Department will have to find ways to cover additional costs that may be incurred. Alternatively, it may have to seek additional funds from the government or use funds from other parts of its capital or operating budgets.

Auditor General Recommendation

: National Defence should refine its estimates for complete costs

related to the full life cycle

of the F-35 capability, and provide complete estimated costs and the supporting assumptions as soon as possible. Furthermore, National Defence should regularly provide the actual complete costs incurred throughout the full life cycle of the F-35 capability.

National Defence Response

: Agreed. National Defence will continue to refine its full life-cycle cost estimates for the F-35 capability and commits to making the estimates and actual costs of the F-35 available to the public.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Right-wing conservatism aside for the moment, I've long maintained and still do that the 2nd biggest threat to our sovereignty and national borders is from the south not the north, east or west.

Well, to be frank, most of Canada is just Siberia with better access to American television. Being huddled so close to the US border, the rest is just a buffer zone for the invading Hun. Canadians would just flee across the border.

[waldo]

I love how MLW member waldo always adds "MLW member" before posters' handles, rather than just writing their handle.

clarity and respect... simply my mainstays

[Guest Derek L]

yes, your record is clearly broken!

Oops-a-Dazy

As was said, hiding in plain sight……..If the AG and Parliament want the prices of the dental work done on the children of F-35 pilots or the incurring costs of the boot laces in the squadrons, so be it.

Interesting that the AG didn’t recommend a different aircraft…………….

[bush_cheney2004]

....As was said, hiding in plain sight……..If the AG and Parliament want the prices of the dental work done on the children of F-35 pilots or the incurring costs of the boot laces in the squadrons, so be it.

Did the AG ask for and get such information for the multi-billion dollar upgrade to existing CF-188's? Or does this sorta dust up only happen when the Conservatives are in power?

[Signals.Cpl]

Planes can fly without weapons....just like your subs can dive without any torpedoes!

Our subs dont dive...

Edited April 9, 2012 by Signals.Cpl

[Guest Derek L]

Did the AG ask for and get such information for the multi-billion dollar upgrade to existing CF-188's? Or does this sorta dust up only happen when the Conservatives are in power?

Of course not.........

Nor have I heard requests for the “true” costs associated with the new Shipbuilding Strategy, a program of which the Opposition is supportive of……………Imagine what the cost will look like for the fleet? Think of a crew of one ship, over 30 years…….And think about all the incurred costs associated with the crews…..four squares a day and treatment for VD isn’t cheap.

FLY NAVY

[DogOnPorch]

Did the AG ask for and get such information for the multi-billion dollar upgrade to existing CF-188's? Or does this sorta dust up only happen when the Conservatives are in power?

There was no such brew-haha re: the Hornet upgrades.

[stopstaaron]

Why don't we just nuke up and tell anyone who wants our resources we'll nuke them?

works for other countries lol

[Shady]

clarity and respect... simply my mainstays

Most definitely.

such a dickwad

[Guest Derek L]

Our subs dont dive...

Sure they do......And now even fire torpedoes....

[Signals.Cpl]

Well, to be frank, most of Canada is just Siberia with better access to American television. Being huddled so close to the US border, the rest is just a buffer zone for the invading Hun. Canadians would just flee across the border.

Or you can move the border 150km north

[Signals.Cpl]

Sure they do......And now even fire torpedoes....

I think 3 out of the 4 subs are in dry dock the other one is doing trials... I hope they become operational. Saving money at its best.

[Guest Derek L]

I think 3 out of the 4 subs are in dry dock the other one is doing trials... I hope they become operational. Saving money at its best.

They will.

Any change of intent on the side of the Government with regards to the Victoria’s status would have been reflected in the recent budget……..ie they would have been binned.

[Signals.Cpl]

They will.

Any change of intent on the side of the Government with regards to the Victoria’s status would have been reflected in the recent budget……..ie they would have been binned.

They better be, we can't even borrow subs from West Edmonton mall anymore.

[PIK]

After listening to a man that worked for the gov for 35 years,in purchasing military equiptment said McKay is 100% right, never in the history have they put in the numbers for wages and fuel and such, the only thing they are guilty of is being very poor at explaining themselves. Time for this to end, this has gone on to far and totally blown out of porportion, actually it is getting embarressing listening to the left constantly crowing about this. Get over it.

Edited April 9, 2012 by PIK

[PIK]

They will.

Any change of intent on the side of the Government with regards to the Victoria’s status would have been reflected in the recent budget……..ie they would have been binned.

Here is a link to what they have been up to.

http://www.cdfai.org/bergenarticles/Once%20beleaguered%20Canadian%20submarines%20now%20a%20potent%20international%20force.pdf

[Guest Derek L]

Here is a link to what they have been up to.

http://www.cdfai.org/bergenarticles/Once%20beleaguered%20Canadian%20submarines%20now%20a%20potent%20international%20force.pdf

Thanks, but I'm already a contributor to the CDFAI and have friends still in the service……..Ultimately, the Victoria’s numerous delays are attributed to fiscal decisions made by Government, not the boats themselves.

[waldo]

Interesting that the AG didn’t recommend a different aircraft…………….

you're welcome

Auditor General's Report:

Our conclusions relate only to the management practices and actions of public servants. We did not audit private sector contractors and, consequently, our conclusions do not pertain to the contractors’ practices or to their performance.

We did not audit the merits of the F-35 aircraft.

[Guest Derek L]

you're welcome

And your point? As I mentioned, they didn’t recommend another aircraft.