CSIS, tactics of intimidation and harrasment.

[GostHacked]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120304/csis-surprise-workplace-visits-policy-120304/

OTTAWA — Canada's spy agency considers surprise workplace visits to be a "legitimate investigative strategy" despite persistent public concerns about the practice, a newly disclosed policy memo says.

The memo surfaced recently further to a complaint lodged by an Ottawa woman who took exception to being visited by Canadian Security Intelligence Service officers at her office.

The previously secret document shows that CSIS makes it a point to suddenly turn up at people's offices in order to intimidate them, said Paul Champ, the woman's lawyer.

"It's a strategy to make people uncomfortable and to coerce them into speaking to CSIS. I think that's clearly the intent of the policy," he said.

"It's about catching people off guard and unsettling them. They know that it causes fear in people, and that's precisely why they do it."

Anyone else see this as blatant harrassment? I mean this is what the mob and mafia do when they want something from you. They admit they want to scare us and intimidate us. They show up at your workplace, your home.

In 2006, CSIS officers made two unannounced visits to the woman's apartment, followed by a third, scheduled one. She then told the officers she had nothing more to say. But they persisted, first calling her at work, then showing up at her office.

"She found those surprise visits to be very distressing and upsetting," Champ said.

"Those are the kind of tactics that in some cases may well be acceptable for police officers. But CSIS agents are not police officers. And I find that kind of conduct by intelligence agents to be completely unacceptable."

Apparently according to the article, this has been going on for a few years, as early as 2005. Disgusting.

[cybercoma]

I know debt collectors can't contact you at work because it's considered harassment, but CSIS is a whole other story.

[GostHacked]

I know debt collectors can't contact you at work because it's considered harassment, but CSIS is a whole other story.

And they will take it to a whole new level, because they can get away with it .. for now.

[msj]

Anyone else see this as blatant harrassment? I mean this is what the mob and mafia do when they want something from you. They admit they want to scare us and intimidate us. They show up at your workplace, your home.

As an auditor this is what I'm supposed to do.

I'm supposed to show up at my clients' premises and start poking around the office talking to the financial controller and other managers to root out fraud and/or accounting errors.

Which is why I tend to not do it and find alternative methods.

Nevertheless, it is a legitimate tactic to use depending on the circumstances.

[Keepitsimple]

As an auditor this is what I'm supposed to do.

I'm supposed to show up at my clients' premises and start poking around the office talking to the financial controller and other managers to root out fraud and/or accounting errors.

Which is why I tend to not do it and find alternative methods.

Nevertheless, it is a legitimate tactic to use depending on the circumstances.

There's the key - "depending on the circumstances". To put it in perspective, it's a good idea to review the mandate of CSIS. We're not talking about robbing a store or not paying taxes or spusal abuse - we're talking about threats to our country. Their role is to investigate and report. They are there to keep our country safe.

Role of CSIS

CSIS is at the forefront of Canada's national security establishment, employing some of the country's most intelligent and capable men and women. The Service's role is to investigate threats, analyze information and produce intelligence. It then reports to, and advises, the Government of Canada to protect the country and its citizens. Key threats include terrorism, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, espionage, foreign interference and cyber-tampering affecting critical infrastructure. CSISprograms are proactive and pre-emptive.

....................................................

Link: http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/bts/rlfcss-eng.asp

Edited March 4, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[Topaz]

I wonder if this would work to find the truth of the robocalls??

[eyeball]

I wonder if this would work to find the truth of the robocalls??

Not without the means for people to invade the state's secrecy to the same or greater extent than the state would like to penetrate people's privacy.

What chance will human beings have in the face of things like really BIG faceless government institutions and robots operating in secrecy? I've often wondered what it is that something like the Borg would evolve from and that's the only thing I can come up with - BIG faceless government institutions and robots.

Resistance may be futile but we can always hope things will collapse under the weight of their own irrelevance. Sooner or later the only places left for really serious malfeasance to occur will be in the dark un-monitored and un-surveilled spaces in which the state's institutions operate. Maybe when these start turning on one another the worms will too.

[Sa'adoni]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/surprise-visits-people-legitimate-strategy-spy-agency-100009566.html

I'm very disgusted that organizations such as the police and CSIS are creating policies that support criminal harassment.

Criminal Harassment IS NOT a legitimate investigative technique. These sorts of activities should require a search warrant or a court order.. even so NO ONE is obligated to talk to police or csis. Communication with CSIS is 100% voluntary, and CRIMINAL HARASSMENT by the agency IS COMPLETELY WRONG, and those agents conducting those illegal acts have no immunity whatsoever, so the agency should not be abetting unlawful conduct.

Likewise it is disgusting that police feel criminal harassment is ok because police harassment is part of their job. IT ISN'T

This is disgusting.

These organizations shoulnd't be infringing peoples rights and harassing them. They are worse than collections agencies that also would be subject to charges for harassment for unwanted interferance.

The fact these are damaging situations, is actually a type of defamation.

THIS IS SICKENING.

http://www.crcvc.ca/docs/crimharass.pdf

Edited March 4, 2012 by Sa'adoni

[eyeball]

This is also in a other thread.

Edited March 4, 2012 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

I think we have another thread already for this topic - please use that.

[Sa'adoni]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/surprise-visits-people-legitimate-strategy-spy-agency-100009566.html

I'm very disgusted that organizations such as the police and CSIS are creating policies that support criminal harassment.

Criminal Harassment IS NOT a legitimate investigative technique. These sorts of activities should require a search warrant or a court order.. even so NO ONE is obligated to talk to police or csis. Communication with CSIS is 100% voluntary, and CRIMINAL HARASSMENT by the agency IS COMPLETELY WRONG, and those agents conducting those illegal acts have no immunity whatsoever, so the agency should not be abetting unlawful conduct.

Likewise it is disgusting that police feel criminal harassment is ok because police harassment is part of their job. IT ISN'T

This is disgusting.

These organizations shoulnd't be infringing peoples rights and harassing them. They are worse than collections agencies that also would be subject to charges for harassment for unwanted interferance.

The fact these are damaging situations, is actually a type of defamation.

THIS IS SICKENING.

http://www.crcvc.ca/docs/crimharass.pdf

[Tilter]

The question in my mind is "what action by me would it take for a CSIS investigator to take enuf interest in me to turn up at my workplace"?

If you aren't engaged in any nefarious action I don't think you have to worry about an Intelligence officer snooping in your computer.

[cybercoma]

The question in my mind is "what action by me would it take for a CSIS investigator to take enuf interest in me to turn up at my workplace"?

If you aren't engaged in any nefarious action I don't think you have to worry about an Intelligence officer snooping in your computer.

Maybe the government should install cameras in your home. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

[Guest Derek L]

Maybe the government should install cameras in your home. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

Or better yet, we create a law that allows the police to search and seize an individual’s electronic devices without a warrant……..Perhaps all cell phone and computer/internet users should be licensed prior, under the auspices of preventing “cyber crime”…….

That would surely be less restrictive and invasive than what you propose.

[waldo]

Or better yet, we create a law that allows the police to search and seize an individual’s electronic devices without a warrant……..Perhaps all cell phone and computer/internet users should be licensed prior, under the auspices of preventing “cyber crime”…….

Vic, is that you?

[eyeball]

Maybe the government should install cameras in your home. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

How about we install cameras throughout the government? If they're doing anything wrong we'll know about it.

It just doesn't matter if the government gets worried. I mean, who the hell is in charge of who here anyway?

[dre]

CSIS should be shut down and those people should be forced to go and find real jobs.

[Guest Derek L]

Vic, is that you?

What was your position(s) on the Long Gun Registry? I don’t remember any contributions of note by yourself to such discussions…..

[Moonbox]

Guys...really...

We live in a country where the scariest thing our intelligence agencies do is show up at work and embarrass you? Maybe I'm really naive, but I find it hard to believe that CSIS would be bothering you for no reason...I think Canada takes the "ends justfiy the means" very sparingly.

Good thing we don't have the CIA, GRU, Mossad, ISI, RAW or China's MSS to deal with. Harrassing you at work would be considered polite in comparison.

[Charles Anthony]

This is also in a other thread.

The two threads have now been merged.

[PIK]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120304/csis-surprise-workplace-visits-policy-120304/

Anyone else see this as blatant harrassment? I mean this is what the mob and mafia do when they want something from you. They admit they want to scare us and intimidate us. They show up at your workplace, your home.

Apparently according to the article, this has been going on for a few years, as early as 2005. Disgusting.

2005 are you sure, because if that is true how will they be able to blame harper for this one?

[Sa'adoni]

The question in my mind is "what action by me would it take for a CSIS investigator to take enuf interest in me to turn up at my workplace"?

If you aren't engaged in any nefarious action I don't think you have to worry about an Intelligence officer snooping in your computer.

CSIS does security certificates all the time.

This involves investigating you, talking to your neighbours etc.. these clearances can be more intensive than getting a firearms license.

Also if someone gives a "tip" they may do it. Unfortunately some people both in and out of government arn't nice people and will abuse the reportig process as a weapon against people.

I know one person who had links to the Canadian military who didn't like my political philosophy so he harassed and defamed me on an ongoing basis includig reporting my lawful actions to the police, and making up stories about me, this is someone whose buddy was a cop. There are many more like that scum.

https://www.csis.gc.ca/nwsrm/bckgrndrs/bckgrndr09-eng.asp

BTW some companies do work for the government and employees may not even realize they need clearance for their "civilian jobs" to do their work, and that the government will spy on them to determine their ability to do so.

There are many other types of situations, and anyone and everyone can be effected by it, even knowing the wrong person can get you into trouble.

Lots of times these stories involve political aids/csis agents unbeknownst to the public.

eg. The Government Screening Program provides security assessments for all government departments and institutions, with the exception of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The Service also has a site access program for airports, the Parliamentary Precinct and nuclear power stations.

For instance your neighbour works for an airport.. guess who shows up at your door asking questions..

1 in a hundred people work for the military that is potentially 1 in 30 who get a csis agent at their door. There are other examples.

A field investigation includes CSIS records checks, the interview of friends, neighbours and employers, local police checks and possibly an interview of the applicant. During the course of the enquiries, every effort is made to explain the purpose of the questions being posed and participation in the interviews is voluntary.

On behalf of the Government of Canada, CSIS security assessments fall into three main program categories: Government Screening, Foreign Screening and Immigration and Citizenship Screening.

The problem arises when CSIS field agents don't inform the person they want to interview the interview is optional, and persist in trying to interview the person or not arranging an interview and just showing up unannounced.

It becomes even worse when it is a typical criminal harassment act against the person, as it is an indictable offence and CSIS agents do not have immunity for criminal acts.

The same is true for police. If they don't have an arrest warrant, and don't believe an indictable offence is occurring they have no right to interrogate people or even question them without their permission and persisting to do so is unlawful harassment. If repeated then the person could lawfully move to arrest the police officer as it is an idictable offence, and use any means required including lethal force if the officer responds with force or attempts flight.

That same CSIS agent would face the same context of commiting an indictable offence in that they would be lawfully a target of arrest by a citizen.

That is the law, and the protection against GESTAPO and Police state actions agaist the public.

Use it or support a police state that suppresses freedom, we are no better than the terrorist states in the middle east if we support those abuses by the government.

Police have no right to breach the peace unlawfully and either does CSIS

Edited March 6, 2012 by Sa'adoni

[Sa'adoni]

Or better yet, we create a law that allows the police to search and seize an individual’s electronic devices without a warrant……..Perhaps all cell phone and computer/internet users should be licensed prior, under the auspices of preventing “cyber crime”…….

That would surely be less restrictive and invasive than what you propose.

That will take time, but I do advocate this for the "national information grid" this would be a citizens internet that is only accessable by approved secure devices. secure sales would be required to be done via this network, government transactions, any companies subject to laws such as financial institutions etc.. it would not be connected to the internet - anyone who did so would be liable to major penalties like life in prison/ or hard labour etc... canadian credit cards wounldn't work on the "old internet"

public libraries and educational material, etc.. would be provided for free on this network. and citizens given "templates" to make webpages from. foreign addresses and non residents would be blocked from accessing the information.

Information would only be 1 way to the "authorized" user. individuals would be given access to things based on their security clearance level.

--- "the old internet would be turned into an unregulated no mans land" but noone should expect security on it, or continuity of service.

there would be two modes for the old internet "the free net" and the "safe net" safe net would only be approved websites, while "free net" would be anything goes. Free net accounts however would be registered for - only adults would be given access to the "free net"

Edited March 6, 2012 by Sa'adoni

[Tilter]

Maybe the government should install cameras in your home. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

And this relates to the CSIS enquiring at your workplace ---- HOW????????

Maybe a brain installation should be in your future

[fellowtraveller]

Anyone else see this as blatant harrassment? I mean this is what the mob and mafia do when they want something from you. They admit they want to scare us and intimidate us. They show up at your workplace, your home.

Sounds like CSIS employs normal police methods. Not surprising, since the techniques are effective and many CSIS members have law enforcement training/backgrounds.