PIPA and SOPA

[Bonam]

Surprised not to see a thread on this here yet. Two bills are slowly making their way through the US congress that, if passed, risk unraveling the very structure of the internet, inhibiting innovation, and undermining America's most productive industries. They also will eradicate the freedoms of ordinary Americans to view and participate in vast swathes of online and social content. Almost any site with user generated content could be blocked at the request of a few giant media companies, and would impose administrative costs on existing sites that could very well force them to shut down. The bills directly infringe on freedom of expression and association, inhibit technological progress, and could also strike the death blow to Western economies.

Today, many major websites, including Wikipedia and Google are protesting these bills.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/

Why am I posting here? I am just curious if anyone here actually supports these bills and has a legitimate argument to back them up.

[TimG]

Why am I posting here? I am just curious if anyone here actually supports these bills and has a legitimate argument to back them up.

I find it ironic that when it comes to guns most American congress critters will argue that you can't punish legimate gun users because of the actions of criminals yet when it comes to copyright they have no issues punishing legimate users because of the actions of criminals.

[Guest American Woman]

Why am I posting here? I am just curious if anyone here actually supports these bills and has a legitimate argument to back them up.

I've added my name to the petition against these bills and have also contacted my Senators and Congressman to express my disapproval.

[GostHacked]

I've added my name to the petition against these bills and have also contacted my Senators and Congressman to express my disapproval.

Thumbs up to that.

Bonam

And I was going to start a thread on it, but you beat me too it!

In the end these bills would really clamp down on how information is consumed online. Even a simple link from your site to another site that has a link to copy write material, your site can be a target.

The digital age has changed how we consume media. The current models that the movie industry and the music industry are failing and have been failing for some time. Their ability to monopolize on their I.P. is quickly fading. People are able to share information, and not have to go through the traditional channels anymore. The movie/music industries are trying to hang on to what little they have left.

The bill could even affect forum sites like MLW. We post links all the time to stuff, and that was one item that would have come under fire with PIPA and SOPA.

This is not the first attempt at this, which is kind of a scary thing. Governments do want to be able to control the information online and how you get it. That way they can try and stay relevant in the information age. But restricting and controlling information online is an attempt to try to retain control of the information.

Information is power.

[Battletoads]

Unfortunately it's likely only a matter of time before the republicans push something like this trough.

[Bonam]

Unfortunately it's likely only a matter of time before the republicans push something like this trough.

The really scary thing is that the bills have had broad bipartisan support. The reality is both Republicans and Democrats love big government and increasing government power. Fortunately the protest by major web companies seems to be having an effect, several prominent senators that co-sponsored the bills have withdrawn their support. Hopefully these two monstrosities can be stopped before they progress much further.

[dre]

My guess is that the most we can do is prolong the fight, but in the end we are going to lose.

[GostHacked]

The really scary thing is that the bills have had broad bipartisan support. The reality is both Republicans and Democrats love big government and increasing government power. Fortunately the protest by major web companies seems to be having an effect, several prominent senators that co-sponsored the bills have withdrawn their support. Hopefully these two monstrosities can be stopped before they progress much further.

You've hit on something I have been saying for some time. It's both the Dems and the Reps who are taking the US down this path. They both have made government bigger with increasing power.

[Guest American Woman]

Even if Congress approves the bills, President Barack Obama may decide to veto them.

The White House issued a statement at the weekend saying that "we will not support legislation that reduces freedom of expression, increases cybersecurity risk, or undermines the dynamic, innovative global internet"

link

It remains to be seen if these bills will ever become law.

[punked]

Even if Congress approves the bills, President Barack Obama may decide to veto them.

The White House issued a statement at the weekend saying that "we will not support legislation that reduces freedom of expression, increases cybersecurity risk, or undermines the dynamic, innovative global internet"

link

It remains to be seen if these bills will ever become law.

Any bill that is squeezed from the extreme left and right and needs the mushy mushy middle to pass almost never does. With Red State and the Daily Kos both lobbying their activist hard against this bill I fail to see how it survives. I mean I know Hollywood has a lot of money but activist are worth their weight in gold, they are the ones who do the dirty work no else wants to.

[Michael Hardner]

I've added my name to the petition against these bills and have also contacted my Senators and Congressman to express my disapproval.

Thanks, AW. We appreciate it.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I find it ironic that when it comes to guns most American congress critters will argue that you can't punish legimate gun users because of the actions of criminals yet when it comes to copyright they have no issues punishing legimate users because of the actions of criminals.

Politicians are still stuck in the dark ages and don't understand anything modern. Their policies and opinions on any of this stuff is just hilarious, and sad at the same time.

Edited January 18, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[punked]

Republicans are still stuck in the dark ages and don't understand anything modern. Their policies and opinions on any of this stuff is just hilarious, and sad at the same time.

Democrats are just as bad on this one though.

[sharkman]

There is an issue, however. Billions of dollars worth of people's property have been illegaly downloaded. There are many issues involved here, and the legislation may be cumbersome, but sooner or later something must be done.

[punked]

There is an issue, however. Billions of dollars worth of people's property have been illegaly downloaded. There are many issues involved here, and the legislation may be cumbersome, but sooner or later something must be done.

Yah and know what that is? Changing outrages copy right rules (it is crazy that after some 80+ years Mickey Mouse isn't public domain), property disturbers actually giving consumers what they want and demand (honestly people are voting with their dollars when close to half a country like Canada "Pirates" then the voters have spoken so suck it up) and instead of suing customers (it has been shown "Pirates" consumer and spend more on media then non-pirates because they are using the Internet to sample not steal) find a way to bring them in with models like I tunes, Netflixs and Spodify.

You can fight a losing battle to adopt to the new world. Sooner or later we will progress with or with out a fight.

Edited January 18, 2012 by punked

[TimG]

but sooner or later something must be done.

Why? There are many examples where we, as a society, choose to live which the consequences of crime because the cost of combating that crime in terms of civil liberties is too high.

[Bonam]

There is an issue, however. Billions of dollars worth of people's property have been illegaly downloaded. There are many issues involved here, and the legislation may be cumbersome, but sooner or later something must be done.

Something has to be done about the annoying little fly buzzing around my kitchen. I might propose to "do something" about this problem by eradicating all life on the continent by saturation bombing it with thousands of nuclear warheads. That would be the wrong solution.

This legislation needs to be completely scrapped.

The reality is that the only solution that is feasible is for media companies to modify their business models so as to make them less prone to piracy. People will legally pay $1 to download a song they want. They won't spend time going to a store and buying a $20 CD that has the song they want and 10 others that they don't. Many companies and many artists have found ways to prosper in this environment of easier information flow. If the major media companies spent billions on improving their business models, rather than spending those billions on legal fights and lobbying, they would have solved the problem from their end.

[TimG]

The reality is that the only solution that is feasible is for media companies to modify their business models so as to make them less prone to piracy.

Computer game companies seem to have figured out the new era. Why can't music companies?

[punked]

Computer game companies seem to have figured out the new era. Why can't music companies?

Love Steam BTW. It is just what I want and I pay them lots and lots of money.

[bush_cheney2004]

...It remains to be seen if these bills will ever become law.

Thanks AW...our "cousins" to the north will have to worry about something else for now.

[TimG]

Love Steam BTW. It is just what I want and I pay them lots and lots of money.

What they can't seem to get through their thick skulls is there are plenty of people that will pay for legal content if it is offered on reasonable terms without geographic restrictions. For TV some sort of subscription model (a la netflicks) or ad supported free streaming is required. The main reason I don't use these services today is they never carry the shows/movies I want to see in the places where I want to see them.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... If the major media companies spent billions on improving their business models, rather than spending those billions on legal fights and lobbying, they would have solved the problem from their end.

True, but part of the protest against such legislation is the cost of compliance by the likes of Google, Reddit, or Wiki. Regardless of the bills' ultimate fate, intellectual property owners always have the right to go after those who infringe.

[bush_cheney2004]

President Obama won't sign the bills into law, but it'sa gonna cost him:

EXCLUSIVE: Internet sites on their SOPAStrike may be conducting a blackout but Hollywood studios are conducting a boycott. I’ve learned that Hollywood studio chiefs individually and as a group are drawing a line in the sand on the piracy issue with the Obama re-election campaign and refusing to give any more donations. The blowup came after President Obama on Saturday dashed moguls’ hopes that he would remain on the sidelines in the dispute over the U.S. House Of Representatives’ Stop Online Piracy Act and the U.S. Senate’s Protect IP Act.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/exclusive-hollywood-moguls-stopping-obama-donations-because-of-administrations-piracy-stand/

[dre]

There is an issue, however. Billions of dollars worth of people's property have been illegaly downloaded. There are many issues involved here, and the legislation may be cumbersome, but sooner or later something must be done.

I dont think the internet should have anything to do with enforcing intellectual property rights. Its just a medium... if a few people use it for nefarious reasons then you should go after them.

[GostHacked]

Love Steam BTW. It is just what I want and I pay them lots and lots of money.

I started used Steam when HL2 came out. Yeah not a big fan of needing to login to play my games (there is an offline mode). But Steam has just done everything right, right from the start. They now sell games through Steam of other major developers like ID. They have also been a huge benefit to independent developers who want to reach a large audience relatively cheap.

No one is perfect in the security, and Steam had a recent hacking incident, and I think they did ok. This is the first time in their history that I know of a major hack.

Digital distibution for games is happening on a large scale and people are BUYING the games. This is one way of combating piracy that is completely effective. They have built one heck of a service/chat client downloader all in one great app.

But, the stats show how long I've played the games for ., not sure if I want a stat of my running total spent through Steam.

There is a huge difference though in digital distribution of games now and how music/movies are done. The game is not able to be pirated because you need to log in to play, and in many cases you can't play online without loggin in of some sort. Not sure if this is feasible for music and movies. You can play music and movies on almost any device out there, not so easily with games unless they are specifically made for that platform. Would people want to 'log in' everytime they listen to music or watch a movie???