.

[Shady]

Comparing the slave trade to the holocaust isn't really an apt comparision. Because the African's were participants as well. Waring tribes would often sell captives from opposing tribes to Europeans and North Americans.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, that's what I intend. If I can show it then you two have to leave. If I can't then I leave. It's a bet right?

I show you a video of jews or israelis killing palestinians and you two leave. Take your time to think about it. I'll give you 24 hours.

Piss off.

[jbg]

hances are slim because the 'people' have already pretty well sold the farm out from under him.

This is way off topic, but maybe most Americans are happy with the country they live in and don't want radical change.

[monty16]

This is way off topic, but maybe most Americans are happy with the country they live in and don't want radical change.

Yeah way off topic jbg, but I don't think you're right on most Americans being happy. I think they are mostly unhappy but have been convinced to believe that they should expect no better.

The biggest cause of bankrupcy in your country is medical bills and I can't quite imagine people being happy with that. In fact I've heard many anecdotal stories of people who fear retirement because they know they won't be able to afford their medical expenses. People are working to 80 years old or even to death.

I think you are attempting to speak for people who are a lot worse off than you are. How well off are you? You must have medical insurance and you must have several hundred thousand dollars put away for your retirement when you lose your medical insurance. Or perhaps you will keep it until death.

I can't see how you would be representative of those people you speak for here.

And the thing is, a change of attitude by the American people and an understanding that they do deserve a fair shake and normal retirement age and they could have it all. I just don't understand how their brainwashing trumps that!

Is it becasue Americans don't believe the rest of the first world doesn't have what we say we have? I mean, maybe they really believe that we stand in lines dying for want of a doctor. Or that we have Palin's death panels?

Edited December 29, 2011 by monty1

[jbg]

How many Polish Jews moved to Israel during the period in question.

How about you research that and find out why the Brits were closing off access by the Jews to the Holy Land at their time of peril?

[Shady]

In fact I've heard many anecdotal stories of people who fear retirement because they know they won't be able to afford their medical expenses. People are working to 80 years old or even to death.

Really? Why's that? At age 65, one automatically receives a medicare card and is entitled to medicare coverage. Regardless of income. In other words, your so-called stories are just that. Fiction though.

[jbg]

Yeah way off topic jbg, but I don't think you're right on most Americans being happy. I think they are mostly unhappy but have been convinced to believe that they should expect no better.

Maybe most Americans believe they are entitled to what they earn, no more.

The biggest cause of bankrupcy in your country is medical bills and I can't quite imagine people being happy with that. In fact I've heard many anecdotal stories of people who fear retirement because they know they won't be able to afford their medical expenses. People are working to 80 years old or even to death.

I don't know what "bankrupcy" is. That being said it's not medical expenses they fear; it's ordinary living expenses. Let me explain.

Back in the day when Social Security was established, 65 was the eligibility age. Life expectancy was around 70 or so. I'll grant you that most people then alive at 65 made it to 72-75, but survival into 80's was rare, 90's almost unheard of. So if your mortgage was paid and you had some modest savings you were O.K.

Nowadays, living into mid-90's is not a rare event. If you try to retire at 65, with the same modest savings, your income for the next 30 or so years is your Social Security check. A scary thought. Your projected retirement period is thus 20-30 years, when your working years were 40-45 years. How can people reasonably expect to retire at 65 in the face of these realities?

I think you are attempting to speak for people who are a lot worse off than you are. How well off are you? You must have medical insurance and you must have several hundred thousand dollars put away for your retirement when you lose your medical insurance. Or perhaps you will keep it until death.

For reasons stated above I do not see retirement as a likely option.

I can't see how you would be representative of those people you speak for here.

The country and its people seem happy.

And the thing is, a change of attitude by the American people and an understanding that they do deserve a fair shake and normal retirement age and they could have it all. I just don't understand how their brainwashing trumps that!

"Fair shake"? Paid for by who?

Is it becasue Americans don't believe the rest of the first world doesn't have what we say we have? I mean, maybe they really believe that we stand in lines dying for want of a doctor. Or that we have Palin's death panels?

Obama was the one who came up with that idea. And as I posted elsewhere I happen to think it wasn't a bad idea, since I cannot fathom a $500,000 surgery on an 85 year old.

[monty16]

jbg, If you can't fathom a $500,000 surgery on an 85 year old then you seem to be in favour of death panels. In Canada I would consider it but understand at the same time that the surgery would cost far less. Therefore no need to consider a death panel.

As far as everything else you said, I guess there is an appreciable difference in the opportunities awaiting us in retirement. In Canada we have prepared ourselves to be able to retire at age 65 and our funds are solvent enough to allow it. That's our reality and I was thinking that it could be the reality for Americans too. So when I talk about a 'fair shake' I'm not suggesting that the wealthy pay for it. We the people have paid for it through our working years and it will be there when we need it. I can't understand why that's not true in America today. I think a lot of people want to know why too, even though you pose an argument that could sound convincing to some Americans. To a Canadian, the argument completely fails to impress.

And play down the ver real prospect of being bankrupted due to medical bills all you like. It's fact of life in your country and it's going to take a lot of brain work on the people to make them give up what could be with Obamacare.

[jbg]

In Canada we have prepared ourselves to be able to retire at age 65 and our funds are solvent enough to allow it.

Do Government retirement benefits provide a sufficient income for a decent standard of living? Or close to pre-retirement levels?

[Jack Weber]

So: Oskar Schindler = myth. No person by that name existed beyond Hollywood and Speilberg's vivid imagination. Plus you're right! The SS would never dream about shooting a Jew out-of-hand. It's just not cricket...and they were all upstanding fellows of good character.

Adolph Eichmannn= Good people...

[Jack Weber]

Comparing the slave trade to the holocaust isn't really an apt comparision. Because the African's were participants as well. Waring tribes would often sell captives from opposing tribes to Europeans and North Americans.

And people who lived beside Jewish neighbours their whole lives turned a blind eye when their friends doors were kicked down in the middle of the night and said friends were taken to the death camp outside of town that no one ever knew was there...

[cybercoma]

Comparing the slave trade to the holocaust isn't really an apt comparision. Because the African's were participants as well. Waring tribes would often sell captives from opposing tribes to Europeans and North Americans.

And the Jews were participants in the Holocaust.

[jbg]

And the Jews were participants in the Holocaust.

By being killed? Or being forced to "help" such as being forced to join the "judenrat"?

[Boges]

By being killed? Or being forced to "help" such as being forced to join the "judenrat"?

There's that scene in the Pianist where the friend asks Adrian Brody's character and his brother to join the Jewish police force. His friend ended up saving him while the rest of his family went onto the Cattle Car.

I don't know if the Jewish collaborators ended up facing a similar fate as the other Jews once the war was going very bad for Nazi Germany.

[DogOnPorch]

According to the Wannsee minutes, no Jew was to be left alive by the end.

In Heydrich's words via Kenneth Brannagh...

[Shady]

And people who lived beside Jewish neighbours their whole lives turned a blind eye when their friends doors were kicked down in the middle of the night and said friends were taken to the death camp outside of town that no one ever knew was there...

Turning a blind eye, or being afraid to speak up against something in fear for your life isn't the same as actually selling somebody you capture into slavery. Come'on Jack, even you should be able to grasp that concept.

[DogOnPorch]

Turning a blind eye, or being afraid to speak up against something in fear for your life isn't the same as actually selling somebody you capture into slavery. Come'on Jack, even you should be able to grasp that concept.

This is true to an extent...there was indeed an atmosphere of fear. However, the Gestapo made use of regular German civilians in huge numbers who would keep tabs on who was who on a given street, neighbourhood, etc.

At its height, the Gestapo only had about 30,000 employees and that included the typing pool. Regular Germans did most of the dirty work.

[GostHacked]

I'm sure there's a news clip showing them gunning down innocent Hamas members.

They wait till they are in a wheelchair so they can fire missiles on them.

[cybercoma]

By being killed? Or being forced to "help" such as being forced to join the "judenrat"?

The way some of the Jews helped went beyond just being forced into the "judenrat." Hannah Arendt was clear about that and heavily criticized for taking that position in Eichmann in Jerusalem. Other historians have agreed with her.

[cybercoma]

Turning a blind eye, or being afraid to speak up against something in fear for your life isn't the same as actually selling somebody you capture into slavery. Come'on Jack, even you should be able to grasp that concept.

The point is moot anyway. Your comparison would be more apt if we were talking about Poles turning in Jews to the Germans. Just because Native Africans are all black, that doesn;'t mean they're the same nationality. When they sold people into slavery, they were almost always from other nations (tribes), which means they weren't selling their own people into slavery as you're suggesting.

[DogOnPorch]

They wait till they are in a wheelchair so they can fire missiles on them.

Yeah...he was a really nice Jew Baiter. Much like yourself, I find the assassination of this theo-fascist a black mark on the face of Israel.

Edited December 30, 2011 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

For Gosthacked:

I assume since you're against the assassination of enemy combatants you're also against the Plot to Assassinate Hitler, the Allies seriously wounding Rommel in his car, US airmen shooting down Yamamoto and Czech commandos putting Heydrich 6 feet under as well? If not...why?

Edited December 30, 2011 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

For Gosthacked:

I assume since you're against the assassination of enemy combatants you're also against the Plot to Assassinate Hitler, the Allies seriously wounding Rommel in his car, US airmen shooting down Yamamoto and Czech commandos putting Heydrich 6 feet under as well? If not...why?

You assume a lot of things Doggy.

Jew-Baiter. You know it's funny, only recently have you posted about you actually being Jewish. Something I did not know of before. Not like I care or if it really matters, but it makes more sense why you take the perspective you do. Not to mention you troll like the best of them yourself. You've already attempted to derail one of my new threads, but that won't last long.

Considering the modern term of 'enemy combatant' can really mean anything you want it to, does not support your argument very well. The term was not used that way back in Hitler's days, and the Geneva Conventions were drawn up after WWII ended. So not sure what kind of argument can be drawn up from this.

If you want to talk about rules of engagement, depends on what rules you want to go by and what time frame they were from.

Edited December 30, 2011 by GostHacked

[DogOnPorch]

You assume a lot of things Doggy.

Jew-Baiter. You know it's funny, only recently have you posted about you actually being Jewish. Something I did not know of before. Not like I care or if it really matters, but it makes more sense why you take the perspective you do. Not to mention you troll like the best of them yourself. You've already attempted to derail one of my new threads, but that won't last long.

Considering the modern term of 'enemy combatant' can really mean anything you want it to, does not support your argument very well. The term was not used that way back in Hitler's days, and the Geneva Conventions were drawn up after WWII ended. So not sure what kind of argument can be drawn up from this.

If you want to talk about rules of engagement, depends on what rules you want to go by and what time frame they were from.

1. I'm not Jewish.

2. The term enemy combatant has not changed meaning in my lifetime.

3. Jew Baiters are people like Julius Streicher and Ahmed Yassin.

4. I'm not afraid to say the word 'enemy'...unlike yourself.

[DogOnPorch]

1. I'm not Jewish.

But, hey...if it was 1941 in Germany, you'd let 'em know your suspicions, eh?