Boges Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Apparently Daddy Dalton watered down previous laws on expulsion and student punishment so this piece of legislation is a complete flip-flop for him. SHOCKING! The theory is that he used this legislation to ensure "Gay-Straight Alliances" Even in Catholic schools. Funny he never mentioned anything about that in the election campaign. Edited December 1, 2011 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Apparently Daddy Dalton watered down previous laws on expulsion and student punishment so this piece of legislation is a complete flip-flop for him. SHOCKING! The theory is that he used this legislation to ensure "Gay-Straight Alliances" Even in Catholic schools. Funny he never mentioned anything about that in the election campaign. The business of governing can't be predicted years in advance. Things arise when they arise and not everything that comes up was in the election platform. I've always thought it was silly to equate the entire business of governing to what os said during an election campaign. We do expect our leaders to deal with the day-to-day and the unexpected.I think McGuinty is highlighting the bullying issue so MPP's recognize bullying behaviours in the Legislature, because it's an epidemic of bullying there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I searched online for laws of bulling in Canada and found the following. I also think that principals, should make students do hard labour with the janitor, or not join in other activites with the school besides apologize to the victim from of the whole school. I don't believe of kicking out a kid because the kid neeeds an education and will only end up on the welfare or crime lines. http://info.lawyershop.ca/criminal/index.php/archives/2010/10/12/criminal-consequences-of-school-yard-bullying/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 The bullying mentality is often the result of bad parenting. Parents put other people down to make themselves good. Their child learns to do the same. Parents should be punished for their children's actions more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 if a kid is being bullied so bad they wanna kill themselves then they should tell an adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I searched online for laws of bulling in Canada and found the following. I also think that principals, should make students do hard labour with the janitor, or not join in other activites with the school besides apologize to the victim from of the whole school. I don't believe of kicking out a kid because the kid neeeds an education and will only end up on the welfare or crime lines. http://info.lawyershop.ca/criminal/index.php/archives/2010/10/12/criminal-consequences-of-school-yard-bullying/ apologizing may or may not work, shaming them in front of the entire school will never fly...expulsion doesn't mean from every school a forced transfer to another school may send the message he/she needs to hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 if a kid is being bullied so bad they wanna kill themselves then they should tell an adult obviously you've never been truly bullied...the fear of retaliation from the bully (and associates if any) is always with the victim that's part of what defines bullying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Anderson Cooper had a bullying special on CNN. Apparently it has a lot to do with the fact that putting kids in an environment with many other kids results in a pecking order being established and people maintain their spot by picking at others. A fair amount of the people who were bullied, become bully's themselves. Sadly, a law passed isn't going to do anything because we know how kids feel about rules. The best way to deal with this starts at home and having as much parents as possible showing kids how to properly deal with people, and parents actually doing their jobs as parents and not letting the tv do the babysitting. If a parent can't raise a family properly, they can close their legs. Having kids go to a 5000 kid school and social media doesn't help the situation either, it is like adrenaline for it and makes the situation more potent. Something tells me we're going to be going to more tutors and parents with money paying to have their kids educated in a smaller environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 The bullying mentality is often the result of bad parenting. Parents put other people down to make themselves good. Their child learns to do the same. could be but I doubt that's it true in every case...i do recall my oldest being tormented in school, mrs wyly went to the school and an issue of it the school authorities were terrified of the bullies mother she went ballistic at the accusation, so in that instance you're correct the daughter learned the behavior from the mom... some parents definitely are in self-denial of their kids behavior...Parents should be punished for their children's actions more often. I don't think you can legally do that, if a minor kills someone you can't hold the parent responsible the same would apply to bullying...forcing the kid into a different school would get the parents attention, the added inconvenience/cost would effect the entire family... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Anderson Cooper had a bullying special on CNN. Apparently it has a lot to do with the fact that putting kids in an environment with many other kids results in a pecking order being established and people maintain their spot by picking at others. A fair amount of the people who were bullied, become bully's themselves. Sadly, a law passed isn't going to do anything because we know how kids feel about rules. The best way to deal with this starts at home and having as much parents as possible showing kids how to properly deal with people, and parents actually doing their jobs as parents and not letting the tv do the babysitting. If a parent can't raise a family properly, they can close their legs. Having kids go to a 5000 kid school and social media doesn't help the situation either, it is like adrenaline for it and makes the situation more potent. Something tells me we're going to be going to more tutors and parents with money paying to have their kids educated in a smaller environment. wow where do you live that has a school enrollment of 5000 i agree better parenting is the ultimate starting point but back in the real world we both know that isn't going to happen..there will always be crappy parents and even then not all crappy parents have bad kids, my mom was great my dad was useless, one of my brothers was a nasty bully but the rest my siblings weren't, so what happened there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manny Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Most of the time it's nothing a good knuckle burger from Dad wouldn't quickly solve, I tell you. But today, better parenting? Shit, I can't even spank my kids when they tell me to F-off. Why, becuase we've all become a bunch of girlie men pansified Liberals. Euro-sexuals Edited December 1, 2011 by Manny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 wow where do you live that has a school enrollment of 5000 i agree better parenting is the ultimate starting point but back in the real world we both know that isn't going to happen..there will always be crappy parents and even then not all crappy parents have bad kids, my mom was great my dad was useless, one of my brothers was a nasty bully but the rest my siblings weren't, so what happened there? I don't know, i thought those schools on those cheesy movies had huge student bodies. Must be a US thing, I don't know. The point is that some high schools are enormous. Like I said, its a psychological thing with kids trying to find and establish their place on the social ladder. Some kids feel that pushing other kids around is the key to rising up the food chain. This is one of those crappy things that not much can be done about it. I think smaller schools would be better in that those kids could be more easily supervised, that however is pricey. Here's another thing of beauty to think about, what genius thought of putting grade 9 and grade 12 kids in the same building. I mean we're talking about kids at very different stages of development, that has bad idea written all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Most of the time it's nothing a good knuckle burger from Dad wouldn't quickly solve, I tell you. But today, better parenting? Shit, I can't even spank my kids when they tell me to F-off. Why, becuase we've all become a bunch of girlie men pansified Liberals. Euro-sexuals There has been accounts of kids misbehaving and acting like idiots when teachers used to horsewhip kids, some kids responded to horse whipping, some didn't. However, it's not the horsewhipping itself that kids responded to, its the fact that there is a consequence to bad actions, and the consequences don't have to involve violence. The problem is when you have some bozos who don't do anything and think their kid is a little angel no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 The bullying mentality is often the result of bad parenting. Parents put other people down to make themselves good. Their child learns to do the same. Parents should be punished for their children's actions more often. they are ... when the kid is sent home. However, kid will likely get bullied or worse at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't know, i thought those schools on those cheesy movies had huge student bodies. Must be a US thing, I don't know. The point is that some high schools are enormous. Like I said, its a psychological thing with kids trying to find and establish their place on the social ladder. Some kids feel that pushing other kids around is the key to rising up the food chain. This is one of those crappy things that not much can be done about it. I think smaller schools would be better in that those kids could be more easily supervised, that however is pricey. Here's another thing of beauty to think about, what genius thought of putting grade 9 and grade 12 kids in the same building. I mean we're talking about kids at very different stages of development, that has bad idea written all over it. did a quick google 5000 enrollment is near the upper end in USA, so most won't be that large...here (calgary) 2000 is large but we have jr high schools that place the grade 9's with 7's and 8's... just from my experience I never had problems with older kids it was always kids in my own grade level, a grade 12 student has nothing to gain tormenting a grade 9 student...and it wasn't so much a pecking order as enjoying the attention bullying gained them from their audience and empowerment they felt inflicting terror... and you don't need different grade levels to create a disparity at these age levels there can be as much as 2 yrs difference in growth from the norm above or below for the age...in others words a 13yr old can be size of a 15yr old(adult even) or physically still an 11 yr old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 There has been accounts of kids misbehaving and acting like idiots when teachers used to horsewhip kids, some kids responded to horse whipping, some didn't. However, it's not the horsewhipping itself that kids responded to, its the fact that there is a consequence to bad actions, and the consequences don't have to involve violence. The problem is when you have some bozos who don't do anything and think their kid is a little angel no matter what. Ya ... that'll teach them ... Teach them to bully with a horsewhip next time. Some 'bozos' teach their kids to be bullies just like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) There has been accounts of kids misbehaving and acting like idiots when teachers used to horsewhip kids, some kids responded to horse whipping, some didn't. However, it's not the horsewhipping itself that kids responded to, its the fact that there is a consequence to bad actions, and the consequences don't have to involve violence. The problem is when you have some bozos who don't do anything and think their kid is a little angel no matter what. there you go...there is no evidence that physical punishment has any effect on correcting behavior...physical does teach kids it's alright to hit, children of wife beaters tend to become wife beaters as well...i think the only time this might work with bullies is if the kid being bullied lays a beating on the bully, a fight is the last thing a bullies want, they want fear... I recall being picked on by a classmate twice my size, unfortunate for him I had friend who was a social outcast but also an enforcer on his jr B hockey team who happened by at the opportune moment, I wasn't bothered again from that day on... which is one way that is advised to stop bullying, if other kids step in, the cool factor of bullying is lost so there is no empowerment... Edited December 1, 2011 by wyly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Most of the time it's nothing a good knuckle burger from Dad wouldn't quickly solve, I tell you. But today, better parenting? Shit, I can't even spank my kids when they tell me to F-off. Why, becuase we've all become a bunch of girlie men pansified Liberals. Euro-sexuals Ya, punching your kids is a great strategy ... to teach them to punch out other kids. You want to teach your kids to punch out your grandkids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 did a quick google 5000 enrollment is near the upper end in USA, so most won't be that large... here (calgary) 2000 is large but we have jr high schools that place the grade 9's with 7's and 8's... just from my experience I never had problems with older kids it was always kids in my own grade level, a grade 12 student has nothing to gain tormenting a grade 9 student...and it wasn't so much a pecking order as enjoying the attention bullying gained them from their audience and empowerment they felt inflicting terror... and you don't need different grade levels to create a disparity at these age levels there can be as much as 2 yrs difference in growth from the norm above or below for the age...in others words a 13yr old can be size of a 15yr old(adult even) or physically still an 11 yr old... That's the establishing of the pecking order I was talking about. You said the bully enjoyed getting attention from their audience and empowerment. In the bullies eyes, he's carving out his place in the schools hierarchy. That depends on what school you go to. I've heard of some schools where the grade 12s paddle the grade 9s with sticks, or worse yet, an outcast in grade 12 might get an ego boost by tormenting grade 9s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manny Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Ya, punching your kids is a great strategy ... to teach them to punch out other kids. You want to teach your kids to punch out your grandkids? Actually kids learn from a great variety of sources. It's not completely fair to blame parents for bullying. Kids learn quickly from TV and other forms of media. And, other kids. Even if you try to do a great job in parenting, setting good examples, encouragement, fair, some discipline, boundaries, kids can still sometimes go wrong. My cousin Alfredo's two daughters turned out to be horrible in their early teens, but not so for his older son. He was a good guy. They did their best to raise them, but the girls fell in with a bad crowd at school. They seemed to be drawn to the worst troblemakers. They had to go to see a family therapist. The therapist told the parents, this is not uncommon but the difference is, those who come from a good home usually outgrow it, while those who come from bad/ broken home, they become the bad people that their parents were. And it seems to be true, but it takes time for them to smarten up. In the meantime, poor cousin Alfredo is going through hell, waiting, hoping, praying, but always trying to be a good role model for his kids. It's tough for him, and no matter what the outcome, it takes its toll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 there you go...there is no evidence that physical punishment has any effect on correcting behavior...physical does teach kids it's alright to hit, children of wife beaters tend to become wife beaters as well... i think the only time this might work with bullies is if the kid being bullied lays a beating on the bully, a fight is the last thing a bullies want, they want fear... I recall being picked on by a classmate twice my size, unfortunate for him I had friend who was a social outcast but also an enforcer on his jr B hockey team who happened by at the opportune moment, I wasn't bothered again from that day on... which is one way that is advised to stop bullying, if other kids step in, the cool factor of bullying is lost so there is no empowerment... Your right on that aspect. If the bully gets to look like a douche in front of everyone, he tends to stop out of shame. The problem is pulling it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 eww tough talk, tell me how you toughen up when confronted with baseball bats, knives, swords or pickaxes? all choices of bullies in the last few years here...one schoolmate of my eldest ended up dead standing up to a bully with a knife.... that isnt bullying that is criminal assault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 obviously you've never been truly bullied...the fear of retaliation from the bully (and associates if any) is always with the victim that's part of what defines bullying... why would they fear retaliation if they are going to be bullied anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 why would they fear retaliation if they are going to be bullied anyway? that's the power of bullying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 that isnt bullying that is criminal assault that's the culmination of bullying, only when it makes headlines is when we hear of it, there needs to be injury or death ....I just found out tonight a young relative was bullied at school for months and it ended this week when he taken to a hospital with head injuries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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