Anti-Bully Legislation

[olp1fan]

If I was kid getting bullied or if as an adult I was being subjected to maltreatment at the hands of a toxic boss or cop I'd wear a miniature camera and microphone that records everything that happens to me

or you could blackmail your boss and make him give you a raise

[wyly]

now you wanna bully me? you sure didnt learn from your past experiences did you

that wasn't even a creative deflection of the point I was making, you'd been further ahead not replying at all...

you dont even know my height and weight

hmmm...wasn't it you who just claimed height and weight wasn't a factor???

[olp1fan]

that wasn't even a creative deflection of the point I was making, you'd been further ahead not replying at all...

hmmm...wasn't it you who just claimed height and weight wasn't a factor???

not for me it is but for you it is a factor

[blueblood]

that wasn't even a creative deflection of the point I was making, you'd been further ahead not replying at all...

hmmm...wasn't it you who just claimed height and weight wasn't a factor???

Your damn rights it's a factor. 200 pounds is the magic weight. At 200 pounds a person is large enough to adequately defend themselves from most one on one situations. Providing their muscle to fat ratio is in a healthy ratio. A 200 pound person has a better shot of defending themselves against a larger person than someone who is 160 pounds. Obviously we are leaving out the wildcard of experience/martial arts etc.

[olp1fan]

a smaller person can take down a bigger person no problem

kick them hard in the knee cap

Edited December 1, 2011 by olp1fan

[Boges]

With the amount of violence olp1fan is advocating about and how dismissive he is of the problems Bullies pose. I suspect even if he won't admit it, that he bullied people.

[olp1fan]

With the amount of violence olp1fan is advocating about and how dismissive he is of the problems Bullies pose. I suspect even if he won't admit it, that he bullied people.

i was never big enough to be a bully, the schools i went to we didnt have a rampant bully problem

but if someones steppin on you you step back or you become their bitch

[olp1fan]

bullies thrive on your fear.. they get off on it.. take that away and they'll find some other person to pick on

thats from experience and ask any psychologist they'll tell you the same thing

Edited December 1, 2011 by olp1fan

[Topaz]

So what do you think Harper was a bully or the one being bullied? This is a serious question when you see the way he conducts himself in the House and what comes out of his mouth.

[Guest Manny]

The thing about forgiveness is not about needing to tell the other person you forgive them, to make them feel good. You really don't need to talk to the other person at all. Forgiveness is important to do to help yourself. It's something you do inside of you. Sometimes you need to do it in order to stop feel all the anger and pain, because those things is self destructive to the person in you. In a way, those things are the bully still beating you. You relive it over and over, and you wish you did things differently, and you are angry, not just with the other person but with yourself.

That's why, forgiveness is crucial to the healing of yourself. It is really yourself you have to forgive, for letting the pain get to you, making you change into a different person, less than you could have been. The bully is only a vehicle that brings you on the road to your own self hurt. When you forgive, you finally let it go man.

It takes a long time for this to happen, when the pain has been with you for a long time. But the first step is knowing what you need to do. Then you work on it every day. When you catch yourself feeling the anger over it, you tell yourself what you need to do. Let it go, forgive. The bully was wrong, but you were not wrong. And maybe, god will teach the bully to stop being an asshole. But that doesn't matter, because if he never learns, he will only hurt everyone around him in his life. Then he pays the price, much greater than if you ever beat him up. What matters is that you stop beating yourself up. So that you can love yourself again.

End of my sermon...

[wyly]

Your damn rights it's a factor. 200 pounds is the magic weight. At 200 pounds a person is large enough to adequately defend themselves from most one on one situations. Providing their muscle to fat ratio is in a healthy ratio. A 200 pound person has a better shot of defending themselves against a larger person than someone who is 160 pounds. Obviously we are leaving out the wildcard of experience/martial arts etc.

and we're talking kids here there isn't much muscle in those scrawny bodies, I doubt I weighed 140lbs 5'10 when I graduated grade 12 I was no match for any of my peers...

[wyly]

a smaller person can take down a bigger person no problem

kick them hard in the knee cap

you've watched to many movies...i've been kicked in the legs knees repeatedly probably hundreds of times it's a everyday occurrence in martial arts and was never taken down by even the biggest opponent, the best anyone managed was a knee to my quad which locked up the quad but still I never went down...

[wyly]

The thing about forgiveness is not about needing to tell the other person you forgive them, to make them feel good. You really don't need to talk to the other person at all. Forgiveness is important to do to help yourself. It's something you do inside of you. Sometimes you need to do it in order to stop feel all the anger and pain, because those things is self destructive to the person in you. In a way, those things are the bully still beating you. You relive it over and over, and you wish you did things differently, and you are angry, not just with the other person but with yourself.

That's why, forgiveness is crucial to the healing of yourself. It is really yourself you have to forgive, for letting the pain get to you, making you change into a different person, less than you could have been. The bully is only a vehicle that brings you on the road to your own self hurt. When you forgive, you finally let it go man.

It takes a long time for this to happen, when the pain has been with you for a long time. But the first step is knowing what you need to do. Then you work on it every day. When you catch yourself feeling the anger over it, you tell yourself what you need to do. Let it go, forgive. The bully was wrong, but you were not wrong. And maybe, god will teach the bully to stop being an asshole. But that doesn't matter, because if he never learns, he will only hurt everyone around him in his life. Then he pays the price, much greater than if you ever beat him up. What matters is that you stop beating yourself up. So that you can love yourself again.

End of my sermon...

aww how nice...now back to reality what made me feel good? inflicting pain on those deserving it, i've never given a 2nd thought to those I dealt with...revenge is sweet, other than sex there is nothing better...

[kimmy]

a smaller person can take down a bigger person no problem

kick them hard in the knee cap

That actually only works if the bigger person is completely inept.

bullies thrive on your fear.. they get off on it.. take that away and they'll find some other person to pick on

thats from experience and ask any psychologist they'll tell you the same thing

I call BS. Show me a psychologist willing to say that bullies will move on to a different target if you stand up to them.

If bullies love fear, they love proving their dominance even more. Far from scaring them off, a confrontation gives a bully a chance to demonstrate their dominance. Bullies aren't afraid of being confronted by their victims. On the contrary, they very specifically choose victims they're not afraid of.

-k

[olp1fan]

if you think bullies are bad.. obsessive girl friends are worse

how about women divorcing and getting everything

life just ain't fair

[wyly]

If bullies love fear, they love proving their dominance even more. Far from scaring them off, a confrontation gives a bully a chance to demonstrate their dominance. Bullies aren't afraid of being confronted by their victims. On the contrary, they very specifically choose victims they're not afraid of.

ultimately that's their goal, to goad the victim into a fight they cannot win...as long as the victim doesn't resist the abuse will continue...but your correct bullies don't pick on victims that are capable of defeating them...

[olp1fan]

you cant legislate bullying..you can but it won't work

its human nature

[dre]

That actually only works if the bigger person is completely inept.

I call BS. Show me a psychologist willing to say that bullies will move on to a different target if you stand up to them.

If bullies love fear, they love proving their dominance even more. Far from scaring them off, a confrontation gives a bully a chance to demonstrate their dominance. Bullies aren't afraid of being confronted by their victims. On the contrary, they very specifically choose victims they're not afraid of.

-k

I think its true that they choose victims they are not afraid of, but they also general choose victims that they dont think will retaliate.

If you harrass a kid and he does nothing its easy to keep doing it. If he throws a rock at your face, then kinda takes all the fun out of it. Most kids willing to respond to violence by escalating violence dont get picked on... even by physically tougher kids.

I dont think its a universal truth or anything - In some cases that could turn out bad as well. But its basically right.

In any case what they SHOULD do is make the parents responsible. They are supposed to bear legal responsibility for a childs actions. If a kid assaults another kid, then charge his PARENTS with a assault. Fine them... $500 the first time... $1000 the second time... and so on.

Kids bully for the same reason some dogs attack other dogs or people. Shitty parents / owners. A lot of parents send their kids mixed messages about it, and some even encourage it. But once theyve paid 5 or 10 thousand dollars in "child assault fines" and theyre being threatened with a few nights in jail, theyll be telling little Johny: "Dont even THINK about it..." when he leaves for school in the morning.

[olp1fan]

fines take care of physical bullying but there would need to be witnesses

what if they dont even have parents?

how can you fine bullies online?

this would be getting very nanny state

im uneasy about that

[wyly]

I dont think its a universal truth or anything - In some cases that could turn out bad as well. But its basically right.

most of the ...i recall an exception as an adult, strangely a little guy was tormenting a friend of mine a much bigger man, this went on for months...but as you say the smaller bully identified the far bigger man as passive and someone who wouldn't retaliate...but finally my friend couldn't endure any more abuse and destroyed the little guy leaving him bloodied and short of a few teeth, his very first fight ever he told me...

In any case what they SHOULD do is make the parents responsible. They are supposed to bear legal responsibility for a childs actions. If a kid assaults another kid, then charge his PARENTS with a assault. Fine them... $500 the first time... $1000 the second time... and so on.

Kids bully for the same reason some dogs attack other dogs or people. Shitty parents / owners. A lot of parents send their kids mixed messages about it, and some even encourage it. But once theyve paid 5 or 10 thousand dollars in "child assault fines" and theyre being threatened with a few nights in jail, theyll be telling little Johny: "Dont even THINK about it..." when he leaves for school in the morning.

unconstitutional I'm sure... you can't punish a person for crimes committed by another...

[dre]

most of the ...i recall an exception as an adult, strangely a little guy was tormenting a friend of mine a much bigger man, this went on for months...but as you say the smaller bully identified the far bigger man as passive and someone who wouldn't retaliate...but finally my friend couldn't endure any more abuse and destroyed the little guy leaving him bloodied and short of a few teeth, his very first fight ever he told me...

unconstitutional I'm sure... you can't punish a person for crimes committed by another...

Yeah you might be right. But criminal charges arent the only option theres a range of different possible civil penalties as well and municipalities can dole out fines for pretty much anything they want.

Anyhow I think you CAN punish people for crimes they didnt commit if you can show they were legally responsible.

This guy got charged with assault because his dog bit someone.

http://itemlive.com/articles/2011/11/04/news/news05.txt

A California court sentenced a dog owner to 90 days in jail and fined him $500 for failing to keep his dog on a leash, as ordered by the county after the dog attacked two people.

http://doglaw.hugpug.com/doglaw_091.html

In those cases the person is charged even though they were not actually the ones doing the attacking because they have legal responsibility/ownership/guardianship. This seems to apply to the parents of child predators as well.

Edited December 2, 2011 by dre

[Guest Manny]

That actually only works if the bigger person is completely inept.

I call BS. Show me a psychologist willing to say that bullies will move on to a different target if you stand up to them.

If bullies love fear, they love proving their dominance even more. Far from scaring them off, a confrontation gives a bully a chance to demonstrate their dominance. Bullies aren't afraid of being confronted by their victims. On the contrary, they very specifically choose victims they're not afraid of.

-k

Well, every person and situation is different, so it's hard to generalize. Some bullies are actualy cowards, like my boss. Others are like yousay, they need to PROVE to others that they are dominant. They are not afraid, but their greatest fear is being seen as weak by others.

Still in almost every case, if you fight the bully, and it will be a fierce and ugly fight, they learn to respect you. Even if you lose, but you show them you will fight back hard, these ones tend to leave you alone after that.

Of course, lots of people don't like to fight, so this advice can't be used by everybody. Simple fact is that violence should not be tolerated in our society as it has been up to now. And there are many places where violence and bullying has been accepted as just the way it is, like in the workplace, but hopefully that is now changing. It will require generational change.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Manny

[Wild Bill]

I understand you. These new methods are part of the problem.

Please explain in more detail the old methods that worked.

Back during the early Pliocene Era, when I was young, I saw first hand methods that worked!

Being a navy brat I had attended a number of city schools as our family moved around. Eventually we settled down in a rural area just outside of Hamilton. I was in grade 5, as I recall.

The rural school amazed me! No playground, just a big open field with a fence to keep the cows from stepping on the kids!

The school had a number of kids that were HUGE for their grade! 15 year olds in grade 5, that had been promoted by what was called the "3 year method". This being the days when students could actually fail a grade, these louts were found every 3 years to be just too damn big and were promoted a grade anyway.

You can argue about whether or not this was fair to their self-esteem but the fact remained that these lougans were a big bullying problem. Any kid smaller than them was fair game. Since they were so large that was pretty well the entire schoolful.

The teachers were of little help. Most of them were women and afraid of the bullies themselves. Playground supervision consisted of looking out the door of one end of the school and then walking the length of the hall to stick your nose out at the other end! Never would they actually step foot on the school yard!

As expected, more and more parents became angry at the situation (this was also when parents as a whole routinely would become involved) and eventually were storming the gates of the school board.

So one spring we were surprised to find that our principal had been replaced! The old "fuddydudd" was gone, without even time to say goodbye! We had a new principal who seemed nice but wasn't nearly as prone to accept any lip.

One by one he would confront some bully for an infraction. He and the bully would go out back behind the shed, where the new principal would wail the tar out of the lout! Afterwards, the bully was sent home and we never saw him again!

Eventually all the bullies were gone and the school actually became a very pleasant place to be! Everyone's morale and most important, marks improved greatly.

Being kids, we had no real idea what had happened to the bullies. Not being old enough to understand permanent expulsions, we had no idea about being sent to other schools or institutions like reform school. Some of us thought the bullies had been hung!

Today of course such actions would not be allowed. Look how well things are working today!

[Guest Manny]

Good story. It reminds me we used to put all the problem kids in their own class. This worked for a little while, but eventually they were like outsiders and kinda weird some how, so then they made a special school just for them. We called it "The Ranch", because they were all like a bunch of animals.

Still, it was as you say, the quality of life in school improved once these trouble makers were put in their own place. I think they changed the way they do this now, believing it is better to keep the dumb students (who usually have behavior problems) in with the smart, good students. So not to make them feel inferior, and they believe that some of the good behavior and intelligence from the smart kids will rub ff on them. This is bleeding heart bullshit that tries to make every equal, but it doesn't work. It just makes everyone equal to the lowest level, farm animals.

So yes, I agree with you! Stop forcing the good kids to go to school with these bad ones. Let them know, anyone who is a problem will go to the Ranch.

[wyly]

Good story. It reminds me we used to put all the problem kids in their own class. This worked for a little while, but eventually they were like outsiders and kinda weird some how, so then they made a special school just for them. We called it "The Ranch", because they were all like a bunch of animals.

Still, it was as you say, the quality of life in school improved once these trouble makers were put in their own place. I think they changed the way they do this now, believing it is better to keep the dumb students (who usually have behavior problems) in with the smart, good students. So not to make them feel inferior, and they believe that some of the good behavior and intelligence from the smart kids will rub ff on them. This is bleeding heart bullshit that tries to make every equal, but it doesn't work. It just makes everyone equal to the lowest level, farm animals.

So yes, I agree with you! Stop forcing the good kids to go to school with these bad ones. Let them know, anyone who is a problem will go to the Ranch.

wow... what's up with that, stereotyping underachievers as bullies...