cybercoma Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 I would like to see a map of where these bases were. I have a suspicion that NATO is working to secure a perimeter around Iran for their offensive that is on the horizon. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 Otherside of the country, actually. I guess not. Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 I would like to see a map of where these bases were. I have a suspicion that NATO is working to secure a perimeter around Iran for their offensive that is on the horizon. That idea makes the most sense, CC! It does look like things have already been decided for Iran. There are parallels here with Iraq and Saddam. Like Saddam, Iran is boasting about becoming a nuclear power. They have never actually said they are NOT working on the bomb! They have said that their program is essentially for peaceful purposes and that it is nobody else's business, especially the USA, the other western countries and the UN! I can't believe that the better educated and western leaning younger demographic in Iran supports their government with becoming a nuclear power. These young folks have shown a desire for freedom and a contempt for the primitive ways of the clerics who rule them. They are more than well-enough informed to understand that becoming a nuclear power will not make them the strongest kid on the block! More likely, it will get a lot of them killed! If the balloon goes up I just can't see them siding with the mullahs. More likely they will launch an "Arab Spring" of their own. Meanwhile, after the release of the latest UN report the west obviously has decided to take Iran at its word. They simply can't allow Iran with its present government to become a nuclear power, complete with missile delivery systems. No one believes that Iran has been testing missiles for a space program. When it happens, I think the ayatollahs are in for a shock! Like Iran they may have a lot of war materiel but they have no idea of true MODERN technology! Iraq's tanks were basically slaughtered like WWII toys. Iran's submarines cannot possibly be quiet enough to escape detection from American and western forces. If they make a move they will be blown out of the water, in an embarrassingly short time. Like both times with Iraq, the strike will be both massive and swift. Despite Pakistan's lackluster support, other Arab countries no more want Iran to be a nuclear power than they want to be under Israeli rule! Look for them to quietly allow the west to use their landing bases, or at least give permission to fly over their territory. They won't likely take an active role themselves, at least not publicly. Still, they will give whatever aid they can behind the scenes. As for Russia and China, all they care about is the money they have invested in deals with Iran. If they have assurances that any new government will honour existing deals they will publicly grumble but not actually do anything significant. Afterwards, it will be interesting for the world to see just how real was the threat from Iran. It may have all been bluster, like Saddam before, but somehow this time I don't think so. Either way, Iran has played a dangerous game by making itself look like a threat. There was always a risk that somebody would actually believe it! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
jbg Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 Wait a minute.... your country drops bombs in Pakistan and conducts covert military operations without their consent (Bin Laden), basically crapping all over their sovereignty and the US is being pushed around by Pakistan? Come on, jbg. Because their exercise of their "sovereignty" is on our dime and it's dangerous to us. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
xul Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 I understand that 'friendly fire' is an unfortunate part of war, but how much of an ally is Pakistan at this point in time - or perhaps more to the point, to what degree does Pakistan feel it's our ally? I suppose this incident may answer those questions. Ally? US and Canada are allies in Afghanistan, that means both side exchange information about their troops's position and next move to avoid "friendly-fire" casualties. Would you genuinely think US might share any information of its military operation with Pakistanis? And since the incident obvilously happened in Pakistani territory, do you really think US military would have the right to go across the border attact a target without Pakistani government's permission if US saw Pakistan as an ally? Quote
xul Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) the price in aid will likely go up. Especially Uncle Sam also needs money to settle its own financial problem at the moment. Edited November 27, 2011 by xul Quote
jbg Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 Afterwards, it will be interesting for the world to see just how real was the threat from Iran. It may have all been bluster, like Saddam before, but somehow this time I don't think so. Either way, Iran has played a dangerous game by making itself look like a threat. There was always a risk that somebody would actually believe it! That sums up my attitude towards that part of the world. If the leaders of a country want the world to think they're dangerous, they run real risks. So, unfortunately do their people. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jacee Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 Now let's see how serious the war happy Republicans really are ... . Only two agreed with ending all taxpayer-funded government contracts with companies that do business with Iran or having Washington divest from Iranian businesses, if it meant possible financial losses for American companies. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/capitol-letter-israel-is-on-on-the-republican-candidates-minds-1.397371?localLinksEnabled=false Hmmm ... ya ... real serious. Quote
Guest Manny Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 Especially Uncle Sam also needs money to settle its own financial problem at the moment. Well, they need help to fight the Taliban. They more countries that hate the United States, the worse it gets. I think it was an accident, but seems they are too quick to shoot somebody before checking out who's there. I also heard that someone on the ground shot at the US aircraft. All it takes is one guy to start something, and get the US to shoot at their own frens because they are too trigger happy, and scared. They know they will do it. Quote
jbg Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 I think it was an accident, but seems they are too quick to shoot somebody before checking out who's there. I also heard that someone on the ground shot at the US aircraft. All it takes is one guy to start something, and get the US to shoot at their own frens because they are too trigger happy, and scared. They know they will do it. If Pakistan maintained security and safety in that neck of the woods this would not have happened. While it may have been a tragic accident when the country allows unregulated military activity to occur in large parts of the country accidents are bound to happen. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
xul Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Well, they need help to fight the Taliban. They more countries that hate the United States, the worse it gets. And the worst problem of our American friends is that they still haven't figured out why they are so hated in the world, just like Gaddafi never knew why he was the so hated by his people. There is a joke----the last minute of Gaddafi's life: Gaddafi: Spare me! Spare me! Rabble A: Spare you? Have you forgotten your son raped my daughter? Gaddafi: No, I remember...alas, young men always do foolish things. But I paid $1,000,000 to you as compensation. I thought you were satisficed.... Rabble A: Satisficed?....I accepted the deal just because I knew you would kill me if I told you I was unsatisfied.... Rabble B: You also killed my son! Rabble C: and my brother! Gaddafi: Yes,I did. But your son raped his daughter,so I killed your son for revenge for his daughter; and your brother raped his wife,so I killed your brother for revenge for his wife. I ruled the case fair and square, according to my holybook law. Why do you hate me so much? Rabble A&B: Why do I hate you so much? Because 1st, your holy book law was writen by your god, not ours; 2nd, you didn't kill your rapist son according to your holybook law because you value your loved ones more than others. Why do you suppose we are different? Edited November 28, 2011 by xul Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2011 Author Report Posted November 28, 2011 And the worst problem of our American friends is that they still haven't figured out why they are so hated in the world, just like Gaddafi never knew why he was the so hated by his people. But the Americans have figured out why it is so important for Canadians to worry about it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WWWTT Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 Now let's see how serious the war happy Republicans really are ... Agreed. This story will lose steam soon. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
xul Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 But the Americans have figured out why it is so important for Canadians to worry about it. Canadians used to worry about many things, like raccoons's rights in their backyards and shark fins in Chinese soup.. Quote
Argus Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 Pakistan is NATOs enemy With that being said NATO has to get out of the middle east we have no reasons to be there killing people You'd prefer for those people to here killing us? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 You'd prefer for those people to here killing us? Thats a false choice. Most of the intel analysis paints the exact opposite picture. That "killing them over there" actually makes it more likely they will be "killing us over here" at some point. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 You'd prefer for those people to here killing us? Thats a false choice. Most of the intel analysis paints the exact opposite picture. That "killing them over there" actually makes it more likely they will be "killing us over here" at some point. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 And the worst problem of our American friends is that they still haven't figured out why they are so hated in the world, If 24 Pakistani soldiers had been blown up by a suicide bomber nobody would have batted an eye. Big deal! This is just the same sort of mentality which says that Israel accidentally killing a Palestinian is a good excuse for riots, but Syria or Iran or India or Russia - or China, for that matter, slaughtering hundreds of Muslims is a big yawn of no interest. The US does the work of the West in trying to stabilize third world shitholes so that the West can import the resources it needs. If the US stopped, then other western nations would have to step up their own activities in this regard. The Chinese, of course, are coming to have the same problems, but they tend to operate beneath the surface more. A Chinese company which is having problems with a local bureaucrat or a local factory owner, or local people will simply bribe someone to give them what they want, or to kill whoever is opposing them. The French do the same sort of thing in Africa. The Americans are just too noisy about everything they do, and insist on this stupid democracy business for people not ready for it. They should have just appointed a local strongman in Iraq and Afghanistan and given him sufficient money to maintain their interests. The British are actually quite good at that sort of thing, or used to be. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 Thats a false choice. Most of the intel analysis paints the exact opposite picture. That "killing them over there" actually makes it more likely they will be "killing us over here" at some point. 9-1-1 happened before Iraq and Afghanistan. Osama bin laden had 10,000 men in Afghanistan dedicated to jihad. I don't buy the idea that doing nothing was any deterrence to them hating and attacking us. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 9-1-1 happened before Iraq and Afghanistan. Osama bin laden had 10,000 men in Afghanistan dedicated to jihad. I don't buy the idea that doing nothing was any deterrence to them hating and attacking us. Yeah but also refuse to pay the bill for the things we did to provoke them before 9/11. With that giant blinder on how the hell could you possibly know about anything to do with this? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
dre Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 9-1-1 happened before Iraq and Afghanistan. Osama bin laden had 10,000 men in Afghanistan dedicated to jihad. I don't buy the idea that doing nothing was any deterrence to them hating and attacking us. Those things happened after decades of western military interference in the ME. Iraq and Afghanistan were just the most recent episodes. And the whole reason Bin Laden turned on the US in the first place was because the US stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, he feuded with the Royal Family over it, and eventually got exiled. I don't buy the idea that doing nothing was any deterrence to them hating and attacking us. Who knows! Weve never tried doing nothing. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
cybercoma Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 If 24 Pakistani soldiers had been blown up by a suicide bomber nobody would have batted an eye. Big deal!That's because we don't expect the United States to act like suicide bombers. Quote
Post To The Left Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 Ally? US and Canada are allies in Afghanistan, that means both side exchange information about their troops's position and next move to avoid "friendly-fire" casualties. In 2002 the Americans bombed the shit out of Canadian forces that killed some of our boys. So following your logic it wasn't an unfortunate mistake, it is because the American's aren't our allies? On April 18, 2002, an American F-16 fighter jet dropped a laser-guided 225-kilogram bomb near Kandahar, accidentally killing four Canadian soldiers and injuring eight others. ...U.S. air force Maj. Harry Schmidt, one of the pilots involved in the "friendly fire" incident that killed four Canadians in Afghanistan, was found guilty of dereliction of duty on July 6, 2004, in what the U.S. military calls a "non-judicial hearing" before a senior officer. The maximum penalty he had faced was 30 days of house arrest. http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/ That said this sort of thing happens all the time on the vague border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. The two countries already have a system worked out. Last time American bombs killed some Pakistan border agents America simply allowed Pakistan to kill some of its soldiers in a revenge attack: A group of American military officers and Afghan officials had just finished a five-hour meeting with their Pakistani hosts in a village schoolhouse settling a border dispute when they were ambushed — by the Pakistanis. An American major was killed and three American officers were wounded, along with their Afghan interpreter, in what fresh accounts from the Afghan and American officers who were there reveal was a complex, calculated assault by a nominal ally. The Pakistanis opened fire on the Americans, who returned fire before escaping in a blood-soaked Black Hawk helicopter. The attack, in Teri Mangal on May 14, 2007, was kept quiet by Washington, which for much of a decade has seemed to play down or ignore signals that Pakistan would pursue its own interests, or even sometimes behave as an enemy. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/world/asia/pakistanis-tied-to-2007-attack-on-americans.html Quote
olp1fan Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 I went to school with a guy that was killed in Afghanistan via friendly fire with American troops..happened in 2005 first war death for our town since world war 2 Quote
Army Guy Posted November 29, 2011 Report Posted November 29, 2011 Those things happened after decades of western military interference in the ME. Iraq and Afghanistan were just the most recent episodes. And the whole reason Bin Laden turned on the US in the first place was because the US stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, he feuded with the Royal Family over it, and eventually got exiled. Was it interference or part of the Cold war ? and where do you think we'd be if NATO and the US did nothing during that period of history ? And do you really buy into that theory that Bin Ladin was pissed enough that US troops were in Saudi to raise a small army of religious fanitics and take the war to the US....I mean really does that not get your blood bioling that some wing nut can change the world forever just because he is not happy with his countries foreign policy....that he can decide to fly planes into the twin towers.... It pisses me off, and in the end he got just what he had coming to him.... Who knows! Weve never tried doing nothing. There are well over 100 armed conflicts in the world today, and 99 % of them "we" as in Canada decide to due nothing....Sticking your head in the sand is "never" the right thing to do...and evently it will come back and bite someone... Canadians are a funney lot, we don't give a shit how many die in wars or conflicts, people can kill themselfs alday and all night, men,women,and children...and yet one TV commerical comes on about some kid straving we dig out our wallets send some money thinking everything is good....but as soon as we want to go down to that country and kick some ass and stop those responsiable for all these starving kids we get all touchy feely....we start thinking we should just let them kill each other...sort out there own problems.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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