Occupy Christmas

[Guest Manny]

You are one to talk? Every post I read by you breathes hatred and contempt.

Love you

[Shwa]

People are stupid. When someone presents a bogeyman like "evil corporations" to blame their personal bad decisions on, stupid people are only too eager to absolve themselves of all blame.

What is worse is people eager to absolve banks of all blame.

Personally, every single payment I make, besides rent, goes on my credit card. It keeps track of my expenses, is safe and secure, provides extended warranties on many products I purchase, and gives me 2% cash back, and I pay off the balance every month and have never once in 8 years of having credit cards paid a penny in interest.

Would you say this is typical of most credit card users?

[Bonam]

What is worse is people eager to absolve banks of all blame.

Banks can be blamed for many things. You know, risking trillions of dollars on speculative bets that posed a dire threat to the world economy when they went bad instead of sticking to the business of banking. But issuing people a convenient method of payment that provides security and rewards? That's something they should be praised for, not condemned for. The fact that some people can't spend money responsibly and choose to go into debt that they can't pay off to buy gifts that most of the recipients don't even particularly want is no fault of the banks.

Would you say this is typical of most credit card users?

Not quite most, but many. According to this site (quickly found by googling):

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php

55% of families in the US carry credit card balances. That means 45% do not. So roughly half of people in the US know how to use credit cards responsibly.

[Shwa]

Banks can be blamed for many things. You know, risking trillions of dollars on speculative bets that posed a dire threat to the world economy when they went bad instead of sticking to the business of banking. But issuing people a convenient method of payment that provides security and rewards? That's something they should be praised for, not condemned for. The fact that some people can't spend money responsibly and choose to go into debt that they can't pay off to buy gifts that most of the recipients don't even particularly want is no fault of the banks.

I think one of the main problems is not a balance on a credit card as a bad thing, but the interest rates and fees being charged. What is a reasonable interest rate? When folks see themselves being squeezed on one way, they tend to see all the other ways too.

Not quite most, but many. According to this site (quickly found by googling):

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php

55% of families in the US carry credit card balances. That means 45% do not. So roughly half of people in the US know how to use credit cards responsibly

About a quarter have no credit cards, and an additional 30 percent or so pay off their balances every month

So you were off a few percentage points not to mention that it doesn't indicate how those balances are paid off, i.e. robbing Peter to pay Paul, or transferring debt to a low interest line of credit.

Either way, you agree that your behaviour is not typical right?

[bush_cheney2004]

To my surprise after moving to the states, lines of credit are pretty much a non-entity here, except for home equity lines of credit (HELOCs). In Canada, you can get a line of credit at 2-4% interest with a high credit limit from a bank no problem. I can borrow up to 100k at 3% on my Canadian line of credit from BMO, for example.

There are some other major differences as well....Canada has prepayment penalties on mortgages, no home interest tax deduction, and slightly higher rates. Also, bankruptcy cannot as easily discharge mortgage debt.

[dre]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/25/business/money-black-friday-incidents/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Nothing says "Happy birthday Jesus!" like pepper spraying other shoppers to make sure you snag that discounted video game console!

[Boges]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/25/business/money-black-friday-incidents/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Nothing says "Happy birthday Jesus!" like pepper spraying other shoppers to make sure you snag that discounted video game console!

Rioting for an Xbox? What is this 2005?

[Bonam]

I think one of the main problems is not a balance on a credit card as a bad thing, but the interest rates and fees being charged. What is a reasonable interest rate? When folks see themselves being squeezed on one way, they tend to see all the other ways too.

The interest rate is what it is. It is plainly stated. If one does not wish to pay the stated interest rate, one shouldn't borrow using that credit vehicle. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

So you were off a few percentage points not to mention that it doesn't indicate how those balances are paid off, i.e. robbing Peter to pay Paul, or transferring debt to a low interest line of credit.

What's wrong with transferring debt to a low interest line of credit? That's precisely what one should do, if one must carry a debt balance.

Either way, you agree that your behaviour is not typical right?

30% isn't exactly atypical. But yes, the majority seem to be less responsible with their credit cards. And, your point?

[cybercoma]

So then do Christmas Shopping at the LCBO. If anyone asks me what I want that's probably the first thing I'll say cuz liqour is so expensive in Ontario.

Christmas is generally for kids. To say that the toys you buy for your kids on Christmas is just meaningless crap must mean you had a crappy childhood.

It is meaningless crap. Not all, but many children are given mountains of crap and have absolutely no conception of the labour (mostly exploited) that goes into creating these toys or the true value of the labour needed to purchase these things. It only serves to reinforce the fetish our society has developed for buying crap with next to no utility.

[bush_cheney2004]

It is meaningless crap. Not all, but many children are given mountains of crap and have absolutely no conception of the labour (mostly exploited) that goes into creating these toys...

LOL! Sorry children...there will be no Xmas toys this year because they are made with exploited labor and artificial materials that do not respect our Mother Earth, are not recyclable, and use heavy metal poisoning batteries. Instead, we have more traditional toys for you like rocks and sticks from nature.

[dre]

LOL! Sorry children...there will be no Xmas toys this year because they are made with exploited labor and artificial materials that do not respect our Mother Earth, are not recyclable, and use heavy metal poisoning batteries. Instead, we have more traditional toys for you like rocks and sticks from nature.

You can still let the kids have their X-Box, and learn something about production and labor as well.

Thats why Im buying my kids a small sweatshop labor force, some plastic, and some silicon and copper

[jacee]

Banks can be blamed for many things. You know, risking trillions of dollars on speculative bets that posed a dire threat to the world economy when they went bad instead of sticking to the business of banking. But issuing people a convenient method of payment that provides security and rewards? That's something they should be praised for, not condemned for. The fact that some people can't spend money responsibly and choose to go into debt that they can't pay off to buy gifts that most of the recipients don't even particularly want is no fault of the banks.

Not quite most, but many. According to this site (quickly found by googling):

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php

55% of families in the US carry credit card balances. That means 45% do not. So roughly half of people in the US know how to use credit cards responsibly.

The point of BOYCOTT CREDIT is to remind the moneylenders that they make a lot of money off small customers who carry credit balances.

Disrespect for small customers is a common feature of big banks/corps, but collectively they pay the moneylenders about $4b a year in interest.

BOYCOTT CREDIT seeks to open the eyes of moneylenders to the fact that small customers are their bread and butter. It's an information campaign, a learning opportunity for the banks that act like the 1% are their only important customers.

[bush_cheney2004]

Disrespect for small customers is a common feature of big banks/corps, but collectively they pay the moneylenders about $4b a year in interest.

Is that all? Four measly billion?

BOYCOTT CREDIT seeks to open the eyes of moneylenders to the fact that small customers are their bread and butter. It's an information campaign, a learning opportunity for the banks that act like the 1% are their only important customers.

Why not just cut up the damn cards and be done with it?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I'd like to see all of the Jesus figures walking through the store. I think it'd be funny.

[cybercoma]

Boycott credit helps small business too. The banks take upwards of 4% from each transaction paid for by credit card. This means that local independent shops lose 4% on every sale that goes through on a credit card.

[blueblood]

Boycott credit helps small business too. The banks take upwards of 4% from each transaction paid for by credit card. This means that local independent shops lose 4% on every sale that goes through on a credit card.

Oh stop the madness!!!

4% is a small price to pay to have your bad accounts part of your balance sheet slashed to almost next to nothing. By having a credit card payment, that business is guaranteed payment and the deadbeat problem becomes the credit card company's issue, not the stores. Do you want to go back to the days of Bounced cheques?

Small businesses had a heck of a harder time dealing with bad accounts, heck some even sunk some businesses.

Smallc is a small business owner, ask him if he would rather pay 4% for credit card transactions or have to suck up the losses of deadbeats not paying for merchandise/bouncing cheques.

[cybercoma]

Who said anything about small businesses not accepting credit cards at all? People use their credit cards for everything to accumulate points and other perks. When you make small purchases at locally owned small businesses that you could otherwise pay for with cash or debit, you're robbing that business of that 4%. People should be a little more conscientious of this. Most aren't even aware.

Also, you presume that the business must extend credit to customers if they don't accept credit cards. They don't have to nor do they have to take cheques. That doesn't matter though because I wasn't suggesting that they should stop taking credit cards altogether. I was implying that people should try to pay cash whenver they can because it hurts small businesses when they don't.

[blueblood]

Who said anything about small businesses not accepting credit cards at all? People use their credit cards for everything to accumulate points and other perks. When you make small purchases at locally owned small businesses that you could otherwise pay for with cash or debit, you're robbing that business of that 4%. People should be a little more conscientious of this. Most aren't even aware.

Also, you presume that the business must extend credit to customers if they don't accept credit cards. They don't have to nor do they have to take cheques. That doesn't matter though because I wasn't suggesting that they should stop taking credit cards altogether. I was implying that people should try to pay cash whenver they can because it hurts small businesses when they don't.

If credit cards hurt small businesses so much, why do almost all of them have credit card acceptance? Bad accounts hurt small businesses much more than credit cards, also credit cards are the most secure way small businesses can clear the most of their inventory.

Those small businesses willingly pay that 4 percent for a piece of mind, heck that 4 percent is factored into their pricing strategies.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Those small businesses willingly pay that 4 percent for a piece of mind, heck that 4 percent is factored into their pricing strategies.

Right...I just got back from some Black Friday shopping....spent about $700. Now I'm suppose to carry enough cash just to stick it to The Man? What a stupid ass idea....

[Hydraboss]

Are you guys kidding? I LOVE retards that don't know how to handle credit. Every time some dumb ass racks up their visa at 28.8% and doesn't pay it off, I look better with my 9.9% PAID OFF card. I only wish this was the States where the rates are considerably lower. If some dipshit doesn't know how to control his spending habits, that's not my problem - it's his. If some dipshit just HAS to buy that Chinese-made piece of junk and can't pay it off, that's not my problem - it's his. I'll be just fine when the wife runs a few grand on the card this Christmas...it'll be paid off before the bill shows up.

How can the banks be responsible for a retard with a card? That's like saying liquor stores are responsible for alcoholics. Just not true. The cigarette companies didn't shove that last smoke in my mouth, so they're not responsible if I die of cancer. I bought my last 60" plasma at Future Shop. Got a card from them, then haggled the $70 "admin fee" away. Used their money for 11 months and then paid it in full. No interest. Did the same with just about every major purchase. No interest. Could have paid cash, but why would I use my money when I can use theirs?

I am sick to death about hearing how it's always someone else's fault when people make bad choices. Next it'll be the pot dealers' fault that these mentally challenged OCCUPIers got their faces pierced in a million places when they were stoned and then couldn't get jobs because they look like circus freaks.

Of course, first they would have to be LOOKING for jobs.

[blueblood]

Are you guys kidding? I LOVE retards that don't know how to handle credit. Every time some dumb ass racks up their visa at 28.8% and doesn't pay it off, I look better with my 9.9% PAID OFF card. I only wish this was the States where the rates are considerably lower. If some dipshit doesn't know how to control his spending habits, that's not my problem - it's his. If some dipshit just HAS to buy that Chinese-made piece of junk and can't pay it off, that's not my problem - it's his. I'll be just fine when the wife runs a few grand on the card this Christmas...it'll be paid off before the bill shows up.

How can the banks be responsible for a retard with a card? That's like saying liquor stores are responsible for alcoholics. Just not true. The cigarette companies didn't shove that last smoke in my mouth, so they're not responsible if I die of cancer. I bought my last 60" plasma at Future Shop. Got a card from them, then haggled the $70 "admin fee" away. Used their money for 11 months and then paid it in full. No interest. Did the same with just about every major purchase. No interest. Could have paid cash, but why would I use my money when I can use theirs?

I am sick to death about hearing how it's always someone else's fault when people make bad choices. Next it'll be the pot dealers' fault that these mentally challenged OCCUPIers got their faces pierced in a million places when they were stoned and then couldn't get jobs because they look like circus freaks.

Of course, first they would have to be LOOKING for jobs.

Bingo, people who are smart with their credit cards heavily benefit from those who aren't. I put all the farms expenses on the visa and zero the visa every month. With that I get free bookkeeping, and I get to occupy a cruise ship before christmas. Thank you visa!!!

[cybercoma]

You guys are grossly misinformed.

Small businesses are so happy about people using credit cards that the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB) has a campaign designed to discourage people from paying with credit.

The Competition Bureau recently found that Canada's credit card costs were among the highest in the world.

http://www.cfib.ca/debitcredit

[Hydraboss]

and again....no one cares.

If "small business" want's to give me the same deal as Future Shop on that new 80" tv AND let me use their money interest free for 11 months, I'll buy it there.

But I'm not giving them my cash. It's earning (a tiny bit) of interest in the bank while I go payment-free.

Who cares what the CFIB thinks or wants?

/sp

Edited November 26, 2011 by Hydraboss

[Hydraboss]

Oh ya baby!!!

Of course, this is just the cheap 120Hz version. The real one is about $7500. As I said, give me the cash with 11 months interest free conditions, and I'm all yours.

[Hydraboss]

double

Edited November 26, 2011 by Hydraboss