Court finds Bush and Blair guilty of war crimes

[Guest American Woman]

What Canadian role in Iraq? We sent about 4 ships i think to the Gulf, and had some officers on exchange.

Without getting into Canada's actual involvement, that makes Canada what, exactly? - A saint in the overall picture of life? That you ask such a question helps confirm my point.

But getting back to Iraq, your government certainly sang of it's involvement when contract time came around, eh? Your country was more involved than I'm sure you'd (comfortably) like to believe.

Yes I am obsessed with the US, and for good reason. If you're a human and live on planet earth you should be paying very close attention to US politics.

I would say if you're a human and live on planet earth you should be paying as close attention to your own country's politics. But it's so much more convenient and easy-to-live-with to point the finger, isn't it?

[olp1fan]

No, there is a long wait line behind Mulroney/Campbell/Chretien/Martin for things like the Somalia Affair, Kosovo, and Haiti.

What atrocities did Canada commit?

[WWWTT]

What atrocities did Canada commit?

Kissing Americas ass

WWWTT

[Boges]

I bet the courts in Malaysia wouldn't think try the leader of China for Human Rights abuses. Or the leader of Iran for killing Gay people just for being Gay.

I wonder if JFK never got shot, would he be up on war crimes charges for starting the Vietnam War or attempting to invade Cuba?

Anyone tried to posthumously convict Truman for dropping the bomb?

[bush_cheney2004]

What atrocities did Canada commit?

My...you are young. Use America's internet, Google, and Wiki to find out.

[Moonlight Graham]

But the biggest impediment to achieve justice is a lack of willpower. Too many people don't believe in anything besides serving themselves first. That is why i said it.

agreed

Only a miracle can save us now...

maybe so.

[kactus]

I bet the courts in Malaysia wouldn't think try the leader of China for Human Rights abuses. Or the leader of Iran for killing Gay people just for being Gay.

I wonder if JFK never got shot, would he be up on war crimes charges for starting the Vietnam War or attempting to invade Cuba?

Anyone tried to posthumously convict Truman for dropping the bomb?

Invading a country under the premise that they had WMD and forming the public opinion to go to war is different from how governments treat their own citizens. Not that I condone the mistreatment of their own citizens.

[Moonlight Graham]

Without getting into Canada's actual involvement, that makes Canada what, exactly? - A saint in the overall picture of life? That you ask such a question helps confirm my point.

I would never say my country acts like saint. We were/are in Libya for bullshit reasons after all. But we are talking about Iraq.

I would say if you're a human and live on planet earth you should be paying as close attention to your own country's politics. But it's so much more convenient and easy-to-live-with to point the finger, isn't it?

I post almost equally in the Canadian fed forum and the US politics forum. I keep both to account. Every time I criticize the US i don't have to put an asterisks beside it saying "Canada did this, did that" blah blah just because a few Americans get their ass chapped. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

[Guest American Woman]

I would never say my country acts like saint. We were/are in Libya for bullshit reasons after all. But we are talking about Iraq.

I spoke of Iraq also. I see you took the "no comment" route.

I post almost equally in the Canadian fed forum and the US politics forum.

Good for you.

I keep both to account. Every time I criticize the US i don't have to put an asterisks beside it saying "Canada did this, did that" blah blah just because a few Americans get their ass chapped.

And every time you criticize the U.S. only when both are complicit, I will call you on it, even though it gets your panties in a knot.

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

Good advice. I suggest you follow it.

[Moonlight Graham]

I spoke of Iraq also. I see you took the "no comment" route.

Comment about what? I don't know hardly anything about the contractor situation in Iraq. If you have some good articles on Canadian and US contractors, i'll read em.

And every time you criticize the U.S. only when both are complicit, I will call you on it, even though it gets your panties in a knot.

Fine, but to my knowledge the Canadian gov hasn't been involved in any war crimes during in Iraq since 2003.

[Guest American Woman]

Comment about what? I don't know hardly anything about the contractor situation in Iraq. If you have some good articles on Canadian and US contractors, i'll read em.

It's not just "the contractor situation," but for the life of me, I can't understand how you could be unaware of it. It makes me wonder how deeply you dig regarding your country's involvement.

You talk about the Big Lie told to Americans; well the Big Lie told to Canadians is that you weren't involved in the war in Iraq.

Fine, but to my knowledge the Canadian gov hasn't been involved in any war crimes during in Iraq since 2003.

Back in March 2003, then-U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci admitted that Canada was of greater assistance in the US-led war against Iraq “than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting us.” What? But how can that be? Canada gave a defiant‘no’ to the war in Iraq, didn’t it? Well, actually, no. While the Liberal government wanted Canadians to believe that they had stood up against the U.S. and opposed the Iraq war/ ]occupation, Canada was (and still is) very much involved. What’s worse, despite the still-prevailing myth that Canada never joined that war, our government, corporations and military are still closely collaborating in the U.S. occupation.

The War in Iraq: Another Canadian “No-Means-Yes” Policy in Action

[olp1fan]

It's not just "the contractor situation," but for the life of me, I can't understand how you could be unaware of it. It makes me wonder how deeply you dig regarding your country's involvement.

You talk about the Big Lie told to Americans; well the Big Lie told to Canadians is that you weren't involved in the war in Iraq.

Back in March 2003, then-U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci admitted that Canada was of greater assistance in the US-led war against Iraq “than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting us.” What? But how can that be? Canada gave a defiant‘no’ to the war in Iraq, didn’t it? Well, actually, no. While the Liberal government wanted Canadians to believe that they had stood up against the U.S. and opposed the Iraq war/ ]occupation, Canada was (and still is) very much involved. What’s worse, despite the still-prevailing myth that Canada never joined that war, our government, corporations and military are still closely collaborating in the U.S. occupation.

The War in Iraq: Another Canadian “No-Means-Yes” Policy in Action

that is true, canada helped in iraq greatly which confuses me as to why bush snubbed canada and chretien many times

[Guest American Woman]

More about Canada's involvement in the Iraq war:

On March 25, 2003, during the “shock and awe” bombardment of Iraq, then US Ambassador to Canada Paul Cellucci admitted that “… ironically, Canadian naval vessels, aircraft and personnel... will supply more support to this war in Iraq indirectly... than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting our efforts there.”

Cellucci merely scratched the surface of Canada’s initial “support” for the Iraq War, but he had let the cat out of the bag. As then Secretary of State Colin Powell had explained a week earlier, “

We now have a coalition of the willing… who have publicly said they could be included in such a listing.... And there are 15 other nations, who, for one reason or another, do not wish to be publicly named but will be supporting the coalition.”

Canada was, and still is, the leading member of this secret group

, which we could perhaps call CW-HUSH, the “Coalition of the Willing to Help but Unwilling to be Seen Helping.”

The plan worked. Most Canadians still proudly believe that their government refused to join the Iraq War. Nothing could be further from the truth.

So the next time a proud fellow citizen tells you that Canada didn’t join the Iraq War, remind them of Mark Twain’s famous quip: “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

Canada’s secret war in Iraq

[Moonlight Graham]

It's not just "the contractor situation," but for the life of me, I can't understand how you could be unaware of it. It makes me wonder how deeply you dig regarding your country's involvement.

I never said i was unaware of it. I know there are some private Canadian contractors in Iraq. I know there is Canadian equipment sold to US that's used in Iraq. I know there is war profiteering going on. I'm just an not an expert on all the details.

You talk about the Big Lie told to Americans; well the Big Lie told to Canadians is that you weren't involved in the war in Iraq.

A lot of what he says I just mentioned. Ships stationed in the Gulf, a few dozen Canadian military personnel on exchange missions used in the war. Yes they should have refused their participation. A few other methods of indirect aid he mentions, a couple of them ridiculous like freeing up US soldiers by participating in Afghanistan.

[olp1fan]

in 2006 Canada did move its troops to the most volatile regions in Kandahar province...about that time the U.S did withdraw thousands of troops to establish them in Iraq

But American Woman is making it sound like we had thousands of Canadian military members in Iraq when it was only a couple hundred did

[blueblood]

What Canadian role in Iraq? We sent about 4 ships i think to the Gulf, and had some officers on exchange.

Yes I am obsessed with the US, and for good reason. If you're a human and live on planet earth you should be paying very close attention to US politics.

What about desert storm, that was in *gasp Iraq!

[Moonlight Graham]

What about desert storm, that was in *gasp Iraq!

Also a very different situation.

[Guest American Woman]

I never said i was unaware of it. I know there are some private Canadian contractors in Iraq. I know there is Canadian equipment sold to US that's used in Iraq. I know there is war profiteering going on. I'm just an not an expert on all the details.

A lot of what he says I just mentioned. Ships stationed in the Gulf, a few dozen Canadian military personnel on exchange missions used in the war. Yes they should have refused their participation. A few other methods of indirect aid he mentions, a couple of them ridiculous like freeing up US soldiers by participating in Afghanistan.

Also a very different situation.

Your mild reaction to Canada's role in all of this, to Canada's Big Lie, just brings me back to what I said earlier:

And I'm still waiting for the brain-dead, ignorant, and apathetic Canadians obsessed with the U.S. to care as much about what their government does - holding them accountable, along with their role in all of it, as they do about what the U.S. does. I'm guessing we'll both be waiting a long time .............

Your response just confirms in my mind that I will be waiting for a long time indeed.

[Guest Manny]

Anyway this is about the court case finding Bush and Blair guilty. There is no pending court case for Canadian Ministers... Maybe there should be. Still just as in the past like in Nuremberg they go after the big dogs first. Then if they can get them, the littler ones will be easy.

[bush_cheney2004]

Anyway this is about the court case finding Bush and Blair guilty. There is no pending court case for Canadian Ministers... Maybe there should be. Still just as in the past like in Nuremberg they go after the big dogs first. Then if they can get them, the littler ones will be easy.

Yes...this is the consistent Canadian mindset, lack of culpability or responsibility despite overwhelming complicity in such matters. "It was the BIG DOG's fault!".

No wonder Canada freaked out over the Somalia Affair, because it could no longer pretend that such things didn't happen on Canada's watch. Nobody to hide behind anymore.

Edited November 25, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[kactus]

Anyway this is about the court case finding Bush and Blair guilty. There is no pending court case for Canadian Ministers... Maybe there should be. Still just as in the past like in Nuremberg they go after the big dogs first. Then if they can get them, the littler ones will be easy.

You bet there should be...Saddam ruled Iraq for over 30 years. All those years when he was killing his own people, used chemicals against his own Kurdish people and the Iranians the west remained mute and let him carry on. Intact, Donald Rumsfeld (next to be tried) shook hand with Saddam when he was still the friendly 'puppy' of the west. Bush and Blair were the main instigators for taking Britain and US into an illegal war with Iraq with moral conviction that Saddam had WMD!

This war had nothing to do with a political leniency for those who were against it but has everything to do with two liers who deceited public and pushed for it despite many mass demonstrations in UK and elsewhere against this war.

[bush_cheney2004]

....This war had nothing to do with a political leniency for those who were against it but has everything to do with two liers who deceited public and pushed for it despite many mass demonstrations in UK and elsewhere against this war.

Screw the protesters....they were fools. The UK/AUS/US/Poland and others completed what was longstanding policy for Iraq going back to the first Gulf War. Canada didn't even oppose the war outright like France or Germany, choosing to sit on the fence to see how the wind would blow. Then after all the invadin' was over, PM Martin crawled on his knees to beg President Bush for access to oil services contracts in Iraq.

[Moonlight Graham]

Your response just confirms in my mind that I will be waiting for a long time indeed.

Waiting for what? When did the Cnd gov "lie"? Did the Canadian gov or military commit war crimes in Iraq? Did the Canadian gov or military order or fire one bullet/bomb/missile/torpedo in the war?

So i'll just keep on criticizing Bush & Blair & co.

[bush_cheney2004]

Waiting for what? When did the Cnd gov "lie"? Did the Canadian gov or military commit war crimes in Iraq? Did the Canadian gov or military order or fire one bullet/bomb/missile/torpedo in the war?

Canadian forces participated in military actions and the government "lied" to Canadians about it!

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/05/16/canada-offered-secret-support-for-iraq-invasion/

[GostHacked]

She has a point, we can whine about others but we should be doing the same here, with Chretien and Harper. Only problem is, once you do that it's like opening Pandora's box... where does it end. If we really want to have a society based on humane justice, we've got a hell of a lot of work to do. Too much in fact.

However many of us here are critical of our own Canadian government, but that seems to go unnoticed simply to support the argument they want to make. It's an American thing.