blueblood Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) Actually its works pretty good. Pretty much every society that evolves beyond living in mud huts has some form of this. Its not about enabling poverty per say, but maintaining political stability. Especially in a democracy. and if you keep handing money out for nothing, you will wind up back in mud huts. The Greeks are headed that way rather quickly. Hell the soviets tried it and were the only superpower with bread lines! The forcible taking of wealthy people's money might have got out of the mud huts, but the wealthy person voluntarily giving their money in exchange for labour or a return on their investment put us in sky scrapers. Edited November 22, 2011 by blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 How much public money is enough? Why should the rest of us keep working if minimum "public money" will be guaranteed to all? Yeah socialism...equal misery for all! Yeah, why keep working when you too can. collect public money and live for free! ... on $536 a month? Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 They did that through growing the economy, if you think handing out free money is the way to buy off the lower classes, I invite you to visit a first nation reserve in western Canada and see what dependance on gov't creates. If you don't have the elite doing their business, everyone becomes poor. The elite are doing business, and more and more are becoming poor, because of the WAY the elite do business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The elite are doing business, and more and more are becoming poor, because of the WAY the elite do business. I'd say more and more people worldwide are getting richer, over the last 20 yrs millions and millions of people recently joined the middle class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 and if you keep handing money out for nothing, you will wind up back in mud huts. The Greeks are headed that way rather quickly. Hell the soviets tried it and were the only superpower with bread lines! The forcible taking of wealthy people's money might have got out of the mud huts, but the wealthy person voluntarily giving their money in exchange for labour or a return on their investment put us in sky scrapers. What a typically bogus false choice. It's possible to have a society that redistributes wealth and promotes investment. Indeed, the period of the most rapid economic growth in the last century also corresponded with some of the highest top tax rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) I was going to put this in a new thread, but it seems germane to this discussion. David Frum(!) has written an excellent think-piece on how the modern GOP lost its way. Some of my Republican friends ask if I’ve gone crazy. I say: Look in the mirror. Edited November 22, 2011 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd say more and more people worldwide are getting richer, over the last 20 yrs millions and millions of people recently joined the middle class. Being rich does not mean being wealthy. What is all that paper money worth after the collapse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 What a typically bogus false choice. It's possible to have a society that redistributes wealth and promotes investment. Indeed, the period of the most rapid economic growth in the last century also corresponded with some of the highest top tax rates. Wrong, the period of the most rapid economic growth was in the late 1800's when income tax was ZERO. Those "high" tax rates in the 40's to the 80's had loopholes big enough to drive a bus through. Reagan in the 80's needing gov't revenue dropped the rates and closed many of the loopholes. Voluntary investment which means getting a return on investment has proven time and again to be the most efficient way to get out of poverty, hell its how we got out of the dark ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) Enabling poverty by handing out free money does not work... Enabling wealth by giving it most of the power is what doesn't work. Edited November 22, 2011 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'd say more and more people worldwide are getting richer, over the last 20 yrs millions and millions of people recently joined the middle class. I'd say that has had a lot more to do with the fact we've behaved and grown as if the planet goes on forever when it simply doesn't. The number of other species facing extinction has never been as great in millions and millions of years. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist or even an economist to tell you what's wrong with this picture and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 ....The number of other species facing extinction has never been as great in millions and millions of years. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist or even an economist to tell you what's wrong with this picture and why. This is false....mass extinctions have occurred with regularity in the past and on larger scales, just as they will in the future, regardless of what mankind does. Sorry, but the earth just isn't that into us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) ...mass extinctions have occurred with regularity in the past and on larger scales, just as they will in the future, regardless of what mankind does. Sorry, but the earth just isn't that into us. Sure they have but the rate has never been higher since the party of pain, punishment, misery, and death was around. The GOP doesn't seem so into us either. Edited November 22, 2011 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Sure they have but the rate has never been higher since the party of pain, punishment, misery, and death was around. The rate was very high about 66 million years ago. The GOP doesn't seem so into us either. Why should they be....plus you're in Canada. Stop worrying about things you can't control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The rate was very high about 66 million years ago. Like I said, million and millions of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 building prisons, developing the oilsands, ag boom, energy boom, yes we have. far more efficient than doling out welfare checks. You're so wrong that you're comments border on absurdity. Texas is closing prisons and looking at Canada like "WTF?" They've been down this road and found out that it was an utter failure. Of course, in your ideological fantasy world the real life results of those policies don't actually matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) Like I said, million and millions of years ago. Just because you happen to be alive now does not change the extinction narrative. Nothing special about extinctions....easy come...easy go on a geologic time scale. Edited November 22, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why should they be....plus you're in Canada. Stop worrying about things you can't control. Take a look at the title of this forum, genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Take a look at the title of this forum, genius. Take a look at where the attention is focused, Einstein. Ain't no GOP in Canada last time I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Just because you happen to be alive now does not change the extinction narrative. No, it takes all 7 billion of us to do that. Nothing special about extinctions....easy come...easy go on a geologic time scale. That's right, it could happen to any species and it's economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) I was going to put this in a new thread, but it seems germane to this discussion. David Frum(!) has written an excellent think-piece on how the modern GOP lost its way. Some of my Republican friends ask if I’ve gone crazy. I say: Look in the mirror. It's like I was saying to Argus in another thread. It's as though conservatives have forgotten all about their roots of being socially responsible and moral. Personal responsibility was a part of it, but they had also believed in a social responsibility. The latter is now dead. Now that we're too far removed from the luddites and those that violently resisted the oppressive and dangerous working conditions of the early 20th century, conservatives (or what would be more accurately described as liberals in the laissez-faire sense) have forgotten how important social stability is to their accumulation of wealth. However, there's a very important difference today. Manufacturing is rarely on our shores. These disruptions do not stop the flow of goods, as they once had. People now are completely powerless to rise up against the emergent inequalities because the capital class no longer relies on the working classes here to the extent that they once had. The capital class no longer needs to ensure stability at home to remain profitable. Thus, they have lost that sense of social responsibility, as a way of protecting their wealth and profitability. The thin veil of compassion has been ripped away from the beast of greed that is the crux of conservative ideology. Edited November 22, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 No, it takes all 7 billion of us to do that. Well frankly, if you are a commercial fisherperson, I wouldn't be pointing any fingers at anybody in that regard...just sayin'. That's right, it could happen to any species and it's economy. Correct...so relax. There is always something different coming along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) It is precisely these disaffected whites—especially those who didn’t go to college—who form the Republican voting base.Sounds about right. Edited November 22, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Ain't no GOP in Canada last time I checked. Have you checked out the wannabe in the PMO that so many of your BFF's around here are mighty proud of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well frankly, if you are a commercial fisherperson, I wouldn't be pointing any fingers at anybody in that regard...just sayin'. Why? Thanks to Bonneville Power Administration for finally tearing out all those dams by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Wrong, the period of the most rapid economic growth was in the late 1800's when income tax was ZERO. Ain't no Industrial Revolution anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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