jbg Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 C'mon, do you really expect us to believe this pile of crap? I spoke to him on the phone about it and have no reason to doubt his veracity. Can you give me some backup on why I shouldn't believe it? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 I spoke to him on the phone about it and have no reason to doubt his veracity. Can you give me some backup on why I shouldn't believe it? The story is completely plausible since the patient was likely told that the pacemaker battery was statistically due to need replacement within several weeks to many months. Depending on the device type and manufacturer (Medtronic, St. Jude's, Boston Scientific, etc.), the firmware will auto-manage the reduced battery capacity, and this is probably factored into the wait time metric / priority in a given province. Also, Canada does not have as many dedicated cardiovascular EP clinics compared to the USA and has not kept pace (pun intended) with the growing number of Canadian patients with implantable devices, which adds further battery replacement anxiety. So I expect that the patient in this case did not feel safe or comfortable waiting for an available appointment down the statistical road. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 The story is completely plausible Not as a story on which to base a criticism of an entire health care system. Nobody was slated to die in a few days. It's an even bigger pile of crap now. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 Not as a story on which to base a criticism of an entire health care system. Nobody was slated to die in a few days. The anecdote was relayed from the perspective of a pacemaker patient. From your point of view, if they were to drop dead because of a depleted battery that would just be a minor "health care system" statistic. It's an even bigger pile of crap now. No, the scramble is on to catch up on such services in several provinces. The larger issue is real. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 Yes but who slated him to die? How do you slate someone to die anyway? Do they write "sorry we're all out batteries today so go away and die" on a blackboard or something? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 Yes but who slated him to die? We're all going to die, slated or not. The point of the "story" (to me) was the patient's perspective and anxiety about when the pacemaker would be replaced (most of the device's mass is battery/cell, so it is often replaced save for leads). How do you slate someone to die anyway? Do they write "sorry we're all out batteries today so go away and die" on a blackboard or something? Goes something like this: 1) Congratulations on your new pacemaker! With regular doctor visits and inductive data monitoring, we can confidently say your new device will last for seven to eleven years of trouble free bradyarrhythmia magic, except when the device fails prematurely, but don't worry about that for now! 2) OK....you're doing fine, and in the running for the annual Dick Cheney Ironman Award. Just keep coming back for check-ups and you just might win. Sorry about that 500 mile trip to the closest EP clinic in your province, but budgets are tight. I'm sure you and your heart chambers understand. 3) Well, it looks like your pacemaker battery is getting a bit tired, so it will need to be replaced soon, but we don't schedule an appointment until we squeeze every last bit of health care juice out of that very expensive device. What do you think this is...the United States (doctor laughs). 4) Stop worrying so much...you are fine for now, beating those nasty old statistical odds each day. Your pacemaker will not let you down (as long as it still has enough power to work). Think about those brave Apollo 13 astronauts and the way they managed precious little power to orbit the Moon and barely make it home.....your pacemaker is really smart and knows how to last in a pinch just like that! 5) Won't be long now....your appointment is coming up. Stay away from microwave ovens. 6) All done....you have a brand new pacemaker/battery and it is more reliable (and expensive) than the last one. We heard you tried to sneak off to the 'States and get it changed sooner, but see how silly that was? Just checking your old pacemaker...hmmm...let's see...you had at least a few more days to go! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 A few more days...several weeks...many months? I can appreciate the fellow's anxiety but I'm betting the latter. I really doubt if the doctor laughed and made some wisecrack about squeezing a few more days of health care juice out of his existing battery. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 A few more days...several weeks...many months? I can appreciate the fellow's anxiety but I'm betting the latter. At last...your reluctant empathy brings warmth to my cold, cynical heart (pacemaker free....for now). I really doubt if the doctor laughed and made some wisecrack about squeezing a few more days of health care juice out of his existing battery. Hard to say....medical humour and bedside manner comes in many different flavors. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 I spoke to him on the phone about it and have no reason to doubt his veracity. Can you give me some backup on why I shouldn't believe it? Because it makes no sense. I've posted plenty of criticism of the Canadian health care system over the years, but I don't buy that one. Unless your friend was an imbecile who didn't ever actually try to bring his declining battery time to anyone's attention or he was mistaken about it the story makes no sense. If someone called up a reporter and said he was going to die in a few days because his battery was wearing out and he couldn't get an appointment to have it replaced it'd be a national story that evening, leading every hourly newscast on the radios, and front page headlines in every newspaper in the country the next morning. Stories like that, because all Canadians have the same health care provider, if you will, would be of interest to EVERYONE, and as such would get huge play in the media. Questions would be asked in the House. It would be a very major deal. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted November 28, 2011 Report Posted November 28, 2011 Stories like that, because all Canadians have the same health care provider, if you will, would be of interest to EVERYONE, and as such would get huge play in the media. Questions would be asked in the House. It would be a very major deal. Why would a big deal be made about it if he eventually got what he needed? in time? Furthermore, I would think the care differs from province to province, and likely this was an issue within Ontario. I doubt if every situation that plays it close wait-wise makes huge play in the media and I doubt if questions are asked in the House in every instance. Also, from what I've read, I'm not so sure it was as big a danger as the man in question perceived it to be. It sounds as if PM batteries aren't replaced in the U.S. until they've reached the end of their life either (unless, perhaps, some want to pay out of pocket sooner), and from what I'm reading, I'm gathering that that's what happened to the man in question. Quote
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