Canadian, American religious divide

[g_bambino]

Canada is not a democracy when it comes to selecting our Head of State. We don't get to choose our Head of State, unless we change the Constitution, the latter being the only democratic process on the matter... The process of choosing our Head of State is democratically not democratic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, especially in the last sentence. I assume you're asserting that we don't choose our head of state democratically. That, however, relies on the assumption that democracy exists only where there's direct voting, and we know that isn't true. Democracy doesn't have to be direct; most Western democracies, including Canada, in fact are not, they are representative. Thus, the fact that our head of state is chosen through a less direct manner doesn't in any way mean the process is anti-democratic. The divine right of kings blossomed and died with the 15th century.

[ed.: +]

Edited November 25, 2011 by g_bambino

[GostHacked]

...and I think Ignatieff is any nationality he needs to be when delivering speeches.

You can have him back at any time. He seems to be more American than Canadian anyways.

[Guest American Woman]

You can have him back at any time. He seems to be more American than Canadian anyways.

Make that 'more American-wanna-be' than 'Canadian-wanna-be' and you've likely got a point.

[bush_cheney2004]

Make that 'more American-wanna-be' than 'Canadian-wanna-be' and you've likely got a point.

I think it's a better trade for us...they can have goofy Elizabeth May and we get prolific book writer Ignatieff at Harvard.

[jbg]

And yes, you're right, it's extremely hypocritical for two Americans who spend so much time on a Canadian political board to be telling Canadian to mind their own business regarding American internal politics.

Even though I'm a Yank I'm with you on that one, at least for one of the two I think you mean. I have been very critical of Chretien and don't mind when you criticize ours. Edited November 25, 2011 by jbg

[Guest American Woman]

Even though I'm a Yank I'm with you on that one. I have been very critical of Chretien and don't mind when you criticize ours.

Ummmmm. Excuse me??? I've never told any Canadian to "mind their own business." You best go polish your halo, jbg.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ummmmm. Excuse me??? I've never told any Canadian to "mind their own business." You best go polish your halo, jbg.

LOL! I sure have....when some putz from Canada tries to tell me who I should vote for, that crosses the line. Start a Ron Paul fan club in Canada if they need to be so close to him.

[jbg]

Ummmmm. Excuse me??? I've never told any Canadian to "mind their own business." You best go polish your halo, jbg.

You're right. I apologize. I did say earlier you and BC 2004 don't belong in the same sentence.

[jbg]

Even though I'm a Yank I'm with you on that one. I have been very critical of Chretien and don't mind when you criticize ours. (Edited to reflect that one of the two does that the other one does not).

[bush_cheney2004]

???? hello

[Smallc]

That's what they said about a black president too. And there is good reason to believe Obama is also Muslim.

And how does that jive with your statements about the church he attended?

[Smallc]

Thank you. I not sure smallc particularly likes Obama, though; I think he may have just been stressing the fact that he doesn't think Obama is a Muslim - but that's just my take on it.

When you're right, you're right.

[sharkman]

And how does that jive with your statements about the church he attended?

Rev Wright believes that the Bible teaches that Allah is just another path to Heaven. So what exactly does Obama believe? His actions tell us more than his words. And I simply can't believe that a 20 year member of a church is an atheist. Atheists detest church.

Edited November 26, 2011 by sharkman

[Smallc]

You're right, we do....but some of us have to keep up appearances, depending on where we're living.

[sharkman]

I'm not sure I follow. So you're faking it to 'keep up appearances'? What do you mean, that you are keeping up appearances of being religious though you detest religion? Why the need to keep up appearances? Would you be willing to live a lie for over 20 years to keep your mother in law happy?

[Guest American Woman]

Obviously Obama is an atheist! Obama Leaves God out of Thanksgiving Speech

And of course it goes global: "The popular website of London's Daily Mail has taken the issue global, with a story under the headline 'What a Turkey! Outrage as Obama Leaves God Out of His Thanksgiving Address.'"

But yeah, it's just Americans who find this so very important. Even those of us who don't.

[Michael Hardner]

I wonder if it would be good strategy to take subtle steps to offend the outrage corps at FOX, so as to provide them with a constant slew of controversies... that nobody really cares about.

On election day are most people really going to be making their minds up over whether he mentioned God at Thanksgiving ? Those people made up their minds already.

[cybercoma]

Who really cares? Politicians should keep their religion to themselves.

The President gives a secular speech and that's a problem? Oh poor, poor persecuted Christians. Cry me a river.

Edited November 26, 2011 by cybercoma

[Smallc]

I'm not sure I follow. So you're faking it to 'keep up appearances'? What do you mean, that you are keeping up appearances of being religious though you detest religion? Why the need to keep up appearances? Would you be willing to live a lie for over 20 years to keep your mother in law happy?

Not me...but other people would do that. Obama actually strikes me as that kind of person.

[August1991]

When was the last time you were in Toronto ? 1975 ?

I saw two typical looking Canadian kids on the subway a few years back and they had skateboards. I was a skateboarder in my youth, so I moved near them so I could hear what they might be saying about skateboarding.

They were speaking Russian.

But the kids grow up to speak English. That's the language they learn in schoool.

----

Michael, Montreal has been a city of mixed people (like Alexandria, Egypt once was) for over two centuries.

In 1975, Toronto was a city of WASPs, and the Toronto police were WASPs from Ireland.

When the people of Toronto have managed in civil manner a community divided along religious and language lines for, let's say, 100 years, you can get back to me.

I don't really agree that Montreal is foreign to most Canadians. Quebec City...now that's a different story.

West Island is not foreign to English Canadians. Hochelaga and Ahuntsic are different.

What a ludicrous statement. Of course the British monarch isn't Canada's head of state...

She's a British monarch and Canada's Head of State. Am I wrong? Edited November 27, 2011 by August1991

[August1991]

To return to the OP...

There are actually slightly more Methodists than Lutherans, but Catholicism is by far the largest denomination of Christianity in the United States. There are 60 million more Catholics than there are Lutherans and at least as many Methodists as Lutherans, so without even getting into your opinion of American "tight-assed Lutherans," it's pretty inaccurate to define a nation by such a small percentage of the population. Furthermore, not being "comfortable in their skin" hasn't really been a big problem among the American population.

AW, you should join the PQ with such a refined sense of argumentation.

Years ago, I spent an afternoon with a priest in the Archdiocese of Nicolet who carefully explained to me various Protestant "sects". (When I described this conversation to my grandfather later, he was livid: "Methodists are not a sect!")

My basic (statistical point) is that Protestants (of whatever sect, whether practicing or not) make up the largest religious group in America. Catholics (whether practicing or not) make up the largest religious group in Canada.

As evidence of my statistical point, I looked at our political leaders.

Canada's first Catholic federal PM: 1892.

America's first Catholic President: 1961.

Number of Canadian Catholic federal PMs: 9/22

Number of American Catholic Presidents: 1/44

-----

John Thompson is a fascinating person. He died a Catholic, tragically at a young age.

And AW (and jbg), if you are truly interested in Canada, consider this: Dalton McGuinty is only the second Catholic PM of Ontario. Ontario is like the US! (...except it's not. Ontario's first Catholic PM was elected in 1867. Go figure.)

=====

Since we're on the topic of GGs and federal PMs, I have to make this trivia point: Do you know the Hitchcock movie "The 39 Steps"? Well, a Canadian GG wrote the novel that became the screenplay. (IMV, Hitchcock's screenplay is better.)

Edited November 27, 2011 by August1991

[Guest American Woman]

To return to the OP...

AW, you should join the PQ with such a refined sense of argumentation.

I'll take that as a compliment - Not knowing enough about it to take it any differently helps.

Years ago, I spent an afternoon with a priest in the Archdiocese of Nicolet who carefully explained to me various Protestant "sects". (When I described this conversation to my grandfather later, he was livid: "Methodists are not a sect!")

My basic (statistical point) is that Protestants (of whatever sect, whether practicing or not) make up the largest religious group in America. Catholics (whether practicing or not) make up the largest religious group in Canada.

My point, though, is that there is a big difference between the protestant denominations - so Lutherans, basically a small percentage of our population, do not in any way define us as a nation.

As evidence of my statistical point, I looked at our political leaders.

Canada's first Catholic federal PM: 1892.

America's first Catholic President: 1961.

Number of Canadian Catholic federal PMs: 9/22

Number of American Catholic Presidents: 1/44

-----

John Thompson is a fascinating person. He died a Catholic, tragically at a young age.

And AW (and jbg), if you are truly interested in Canada, consider this: Dalton McGuinty is only the second Catholic PM of Ontario. Ontario is like the US! (...except it's not. Ontario's first Catholic PM was elected in 1867. Go figure.)

That is all interesting. I do think Ontario is a lot like my state (Michigan). Anyway. Made me wonder how many of our presidents were Lutheran. Answer? None.

=====

Since we're on the topic of GGs and federal PMs, I have to make this trivia point: Do you know the Hitchcock movie "The 39 Steps"? Well, a Canadian GG wrote the novel that became the screenplay. (IMV, Hitchcock's screenplay is better.)

I have to admit that I wasn't familiar with that movie/book, but I looked it up on Amazon and ended up ordering the book.

[olp1fan]

Mcguinty is catholic? I didn't know that... probably because politicians do not talk about their religion here

[olp1fan]

Isenhower was a JW? I was one up until I was 18...nearly ruined my life

[g_bambino]

She's a British monarch and Canada's Head of State. Am I wrong?

When you say the British monarch is Canada's head of state, yes, you are wrong. Elizabeth certainly is both the British monarch and Canada's head of state, but the two offices are entirely separate. Would you dare to say the Canadian monarch is the United Kingdom's head of state?