DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Barbarella was the worst movie I've ever seen. What's your point? How did a US sex symbol lose them the Vietnam War? I thought it was more a lack of political will to spend billions of dollars and tens of thousand of young American lives fighting for a 3rd world shit-hole nobody cared about. They didn't so much lose the war so much as US voters decided that there was no reason for them to be there in the first place. Barbarella = Hanoi Jane. If you were alive back then you don't need ME to tell YOU about the Anti-War Movement. Many well meaning people...some real radicals such as the Yippies and numerous other popular movements got together and either wittingly or unwittingly assisted the Communists to invade a free country and wipe it from the map with an ensuing genocide comparable to WW2. Amazingly, some are actually proud to have been part of the events that ended this war. Edited November 16, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 I did give you a version, that of three sources independent of either of us. What now? Afraid to get into a discussion where you actually have to prove yourself against a disinterested source? Yeah, I thought so 'fraidy cat. lol...you couldn't find Indochina on a map without Google. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 .... Amazingly, some are actually proud to have been part of the events that ended this war. True, but less so since now we refuse to spit on our military veterans in uniform these days. John Kerry got a taste of that sentiment in 2004. Even Hanoi Jane apologized for her youthful transgressions. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shwa Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 lol...you couldn't find Indochina on a map without Google. LOL, wrong. DP and the strawman. Such a nice couple. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 True, but less so since now we refuse to spit on our military veterans in uniform these days. John Kerry got a taste of that sentiment in 2004. Even Hanoi Jane apologized for her youthful transgressions. The death threats might have bumped her along a wee bit. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
wyly Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 Yes it was. Ask just about any Viet Nam vet. He will tell you that they fought not to lose instead of fighting to win. They had one arm tied behind their back the whole time they were there, particularly when it came to the air war against North Vietnam. Domestic politics and the fear of bringing Russia or China into the war were the reasons why. the US had free reign in S vietnam and never gained any supremacy over the vietanmese, they attacked where wanted when they wanted throughout the war, it was an unwinnable war and everyone but the US military out of arrogance seemed to understand this...the vietnamese deliberately fought a battle of attrition knowing the US could not sustain the financial, human and political deficit.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) the US had free reign in S vietnam and never gained any supremacy over the vietanmese, they attacked where wanted when they wanted throughout the war, it was an unwinnable war and everyone but the US military out of arrogance seemed to understand this...the vietnamese deliberately fought a battle of attrition knowing the US could not sustain the financial, human and political deficit.... Yea...everybody except some of the South Vietnamese, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Philippines, and South Korea. We can add Hmong and even some Canadians to that mix too. Edited November 16, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 the US had free reign in S vietnam and never gained any supremacy over the vietanmese, they attacked where wanted when they wanted throughout the war, it was an unwinnable war and everyone but the US military out of arrogance seemed to understand this...the vietnamese deliberately fought a battle of attrition knowing the US could not sustain the financial, human and political deficit.... The US may have but its military didn't. We will never know how thngs might have turned out if it had. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
grogy Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 the US had free reign in S vietnam and never gained any supremacy over the vietanmese, they attacked where wanted when they wanted throughout the war, it was an unwinnable war and everyone but the US military out of arrogance seemed to understand this...the vietnamese deliberately fought a battle of attrition knowing the US could not sustain the financial, human and political deficit.... Yea WWII proved how incapable the Americans were when they went in with all they had, it's too bad the Japanese weren't as resourceful, courageous, and a well equipped as the Vietnamese. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 Yea...everybody except some of the South Vietnamese, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Philippines, and South Korea. We can add Hmong and even some Canadians to that mix too. The Cong feared the ROK troops something fierce...something about their taking heads as trophies... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted November 16, 2011 Report Posted November 16, 2011 the US had free reign in S vietnam and never gained any supremacy over the vietanmese, they attacked where wanted when they wanted throughout the war, it was an unwinnable war and everyone but the US military out of arrogance seemed to understand this...the vietnamese deliberately fought a battle of attrition knowing the US could not sustain the financial, human and political deficit.... The Viet-Nam War wasn't going to be won by pacification programs and the generals knew this but needed to play the ball served in the political court rather than just invade Cambodia and Laos cutting off the Trail. When Nixon did try it, the Anti-War movement went nuts frothing at the mouth about invading 'neutral' countries. Neutral countries that had long been invaded by the Communists and that were conduits for moving troops and weapons southward. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
blueblood Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 Yea...everybody except some of the South Vietnamese, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Philippines, and South Korea. We can add Hmong and even some Canadians to that mix too. Didn't the USA win pretty near every battle in Vietnam, tore the Vietcong to ribbons, and borderline anhhialate their army? I think the north had to spend some sweet time mustering their forces to take over the south when the states left. Cronkite was a fool. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 Didn't the USA win pretty near every battle in Vietnam, tore the Vietcong to ribbons, and borderline anhhialate their army? I think the north had to spend some sweet time mustering their forces to take over the south when the states left. Cronkite was a fool. The NVA were ready by 1972 with their 'Year of the Rat' offensive. As most American troops had already left, this was only halted by massive use of US and SNV airpower. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Shwa Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 Didn't the USA win pretty near every battle in Vietnam, tore the Vietcong to ribbons, and borderline anhhialate their army? They did and even still they lost. "You can kill ten of our men for every one we kill of yours. But even at those odds, you will lose and we will win." - Ho Chi Minh Pretty astute observation. Quote
Army Guy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 Didn't the USA win pretty near every battle in Vietnam, tore the Vietcong to ribbons, and borderline anhhialate their army? They did and even still they lost."You can kill ten of our men for every one we kill of yours. But even at those odds, you will lose and we will win." - Ho Chi Minh The US military did not lose that war , US government lost that one...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... Had the US kept up un restricted bombing of the North, plus punished those other countries for allowing the North to operate within their borders...that war would have been over in months... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Argus Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 Are you serious? I was happy with the Canada we had before him. this is no longer Canada, its Harperland Perhaps you'd care to give us a list of the massive changes which Canada has undergone... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Well, it is the global economy and Russia isn't the Big Bad Soviet Union anymore In what way is it not? Used to be if you criticized the government you'd be sent to an insane asylum. Now you're just murdered in the street. Edited November 17, 2011 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Shwa Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 ...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... Quote
Shwa Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 In what way is it not? Used to be if you criticized the government you'd be sent to an insane asylum. Now you're just murdered in the street. Like most other European countries and we do business with them just fine. Heck, we do business with China, so our standards aren't that high Argus. Quote
wyly Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) The US military did not lose that war , US government lost that one...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... Had the US kept up un restricted bombing of the North, plus punished those other countries for allowing the North to operate within their borders...that war would have been over in months... hmm an army guy who doesn't understand the concept of Phyrrihc victory... Edited November 17, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
dre Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) The US military did not lose that war , US government lost that one...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... Had the US kept up un restricted bombing of the North, plus punished those other countries for allowing the North to operate within their borders...that war would have been over in months... The US military did not lose that war , US government lost that one...a perfect example of why politicians should keep to Polictics, not war.... War IS politics. Not one bullet flies and not one bomb drops without tax payers picking up the tab, and keeping taxpayers on-side is just as important to winning a war as any troop movements. If "politicians stay out of war", then all war efforts would have $0.00 dollars in funding. Edited November 17, 2011 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
wyly Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 War IS politics. Not one bullet flies and not one bomb drops without tax payers picking up the tab, and keeping taxpayers on-side is just as important to winning a war as any troop movements. which is the point of phyrrihc victory...the cost of the war in financial, political and human costs exceed the desire to win... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Moonbox Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 Barbarella = Hanoi Jane. If you were alive back then you don't need ME to tell YOU about the Anti-War Movement. Many well meaning people...some real radicals such as the Yippies and numerous other popular movements got together and either wittingly or unwittingly assisted the Communists to invade a free country and wipe it from the map with an ensuing genocide comparable to WW2. Amazingly, some are actually proud to have been part of the events that ended this war. I wasn't alive back then, no. On the other hand, I think you're giving far too much credit to Jane Fonda and the morons who followed her. South Vietnam went communist because it was right on China's doorstep and the Western world didn't have the political will to do what it would take to stop it. The jungle helped too. It wasn't the communists traitors in the US that ended the Vietnamese War either. It was parents not wanting to see their sons go die fighting in a country nobody gave a shit about. Vietnam was never supposed to be a prolonged conflict. The fact that it turned out that way doomed it from the start. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
wyly Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 the Western world didn't have the political will to do what it would take to stop it. The jungle helped too. but then why should it? what business it of the western world to decide a nations choice of government?...which is the primary reason why there was so much opposition to the war... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted November 17, 2011 Report Posted November 17, 2011 but then why should it? what business it of the western world to decide a nations choice of government?...which is the primary reason why there was so much opposition to the war... Who was choosing the 'government' again? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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