olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 ..as long as that lasts...as usual...some Canadians want to change even that. The identity crisis continues unabated. no, only 1 senator wants to change it...we have the polar bear on our Toonie Beaver will always be our animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 no, only 1 senator wants to change it...we have the polar bear on our Toonie Beaver will always be our animal Do whatever you have to do....it's just part of the Canadian psyche. The beavers on my back lot don't care either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Don't mess with the Beaver They might be proud and noble animals but they'll chew your ankles off that is your future Last I heard, "Joe Canada" moved to the United States to try to make it in Hollywood. Did he leave his Beaver behind - or has it, too, become enamored of America? Gotta say, though, loved the commercial. That Beaver rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 ya ya ya, U.S has Hollywood..it's hard to beat Hollywood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 It is over. How much would you like to bet that Obama snubs Harper ...they were supposed to meet and talk Sunday along with the Mexican President but he had to cancel due to the tragic death of one of his ministers. I see no reason why the two of them can't sit down and discuss the pipeline decision. But yeah if you expect Canada to wait until the 2012 election is over you can kiss our asses Really?Who do you speak for olp? I understand the disappointment some feel but it seems not constructive to me to throw vengeful statements around. What happened is just democracy in action. I realize democracy is frustrating to business/industry autocrats, but at some point they have to get accustomed to it. If TransCanada had paid attention to people's concerns earlier in the game and presented alternative routes up front, maybe they'd be proceeding now. They can buy the politicians but not the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 If TransCanada had paid attention to people's concerns earlier in the game and presented alternative routes up front, maybe they'd be proceeding now. There's no need for alternative routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 And we'd get even more with the terminal in BC... It’s not an either/or proposition……..The Chevron refinery here is being upgraded/expanded and the TransMountain line is currently being expanded………Keystone was in addition to this………You might be confusing the issue with Enbridge’s proposed Northern Gateway pipeline……..which is being stalled with negotiations with First Nations……….The other proposal, by Enbridge, is to extend the current lines that terminate in Oklahoma, to Houston (The proposed destination of Keystone XL). See “Wrangler Pipeline” This pipeline was supposed to carry 800k barrels per day. Right now we're selling oil at a $20 a barrel discount, right?800k x 20 is $16 m per day X 365 is a cost of $5.8 billion per year the lack of a pipeline is costing. Seems to me that building a refinery to handle it here is the no brainer. It’s not that easy……Say they build a refinery…..Instead of having to transport crude/bitumen, now you have to transport the various refined products, each requiring their own pipelines……Figure the cost of one pipeline, multiplied by 3-4 (Low grade Gasoline, Diesel, Kerosene & bunker fuel) as a minimum, to say nothing of the various other grades and requirements for petrochemicals….. What you (and others are proposing) is a major expansion of infrastructure that’s not needed with current output. Also, you (and others) are looking at this as an antagonistic perspective, most of these companies, both Canadian and American owned, have interests in both countries (amongst others)….. Keystone XL doesn’t get built…….. Their competitors, Enbridge (for example) will find other options…..As I’ve suggested, the ‘Wrangler” pipeline won’t require negotiations with Nebraskan farmers, BC first nations or Middle East despots…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Really? Who do you speak for olp? I understand the disappointment some feel but it seems not constructive to me to throw vengeful statements around. What happened is just democracy in action. I realize democracy is frustrating to business/industry autocrats, but at some point they have to get accustomed to it. If TransCanada had paid attention to people's concerns earlier in the game and presented alternative routes up front, maybe they'd be proceeding now. They can buy the politicians but not the people. the obama administration PICKED that route...there was quite a few routes proposed I have no idea what you're talking about Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 the obama administration PICKED that route...there was quite a few routes proposed Guess again. The U.S. Department of State issued a Presidential Permit authorizing the construction, maintenance and operation of facilities at the United States and Canada border in March of 2008. Obama was sworn in as POTUS on January 20, 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Guess again. The U.S. Department of State issued a Presidential Permit authorizing the construction, maintenance and operation of facilities at the United States and Canada border in March of 2008. Obama was sworn in as POTUS on January 20, 2009. Why let facts get in the way of a good attack hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Why let facts get in the way of a good attack hey? Yeah, it's a bummer when that happens. I'm still expecting to see this pipeline go through. From what I've read, even the costs of a delay and rerouting it will be cheaper than other alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I suspect the Chinese will be willing to help with as much money as we want. Might even build us a refinery if we guarantee they get the proceeds. This is more than possible. The Chinese have been paving roads and building infrastructure in Africa with absolutely no guarantee of returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 This is more than possible. The Chinese have been paving roads and building infrastructure in Africa with absolutely no guarantee of returns. The Chinese have already taken an $11 billion stake in the oil sands. If the Americans won't let us pipe it there the Chinese will certainly do whatever we want to get it sent to them. That includes paying higher prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) The Chinese have already taken an $11 billion stake in the oil sands. If the Americans won't let us pipe it there the Chinese will certainly do whatever we want to get it sent to them. That includes paying higher prices. Makes one wonder why TransCanada is pushing so hard for this pipeline, and is willing to work with Americans to get it done. Perhaps they aren't privy to this information? Or perhaps there's more to it? Edited November 13, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Makes one wonder why TransCanada is pushing so hard for this pipeline, and is willing to work with Americans to get it done. Perhaps they aren't privy to this information? Or perhaps there's more to it? The western lines aren't being built by TransCanada. But my understanding is that company has already spent a billion dollars preparing for the keystone construction, including stockpiling pipe along the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Makes one wonder why TransCanada is pushing so hard for this pipeline, and is willing to work with Americans to get it done. Perhaps they aren't privy to this information? Or perhaps there's more to it? Exactly, people are looking at the entire thing as a zero sum game……..Oil, like any commodity, will go where it’s in demand…….The already existing lines into the States won’t be “turned off”, but expanded……Expansion as opposed to new construction out manoeuvres much of the regulatory process, especially when crossing the boarder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Hmmmm TransCanada agrees not to put Keystone XL pipeline in Sand Hills A Canadian pipeline company agreed Monday to move the controversial Keystone XL pipeline outside the Sand Hills region of Nebraska, where many feared it would threaten one of the nation’s most important agricultural aquifers.Sen. Mike Flood, speaker of the Nebraska legislature, announced on the floor that TransCanada Corp. would move the pipeline to another area of the state. Sources in Nebraska said it would likely be located farther east, nearer an existing Keystone pipeline that already carries Canadian tar sands oil into the U.S. Interesting........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Just want to say that the XL pipeline is one freaking huge pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Not sure if this was posted before. It's a map of the aquifer region in question, and the zillions of pipelines which cross it. Agallala Aquifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Not sure if this was posted before. It's a map of the aquifer region in question, and the zillions of pipelines which cross it. Agallala Aquifier And how many exist and/or cross it in the area under question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Who cares how many cross it already? The residents don't want another pipeline crossing it and are probably miffed about those ones, since many of them have leaked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Who cares how many cross it already? The residents don't want another pipeline crossing it and are probably miffed about those ones, since many of them have leaked. My point, in response to Argus' post, was that there aren't "zillions of pipelines" in the Sandhills - the area that Nebraskans are concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I was responding to Argus. In any case, there are a crapload of pipelines in the aquifer already. That doesn't matter though. Maybe the residents want to get rid of the ones that are there already. The number of pipes quite simply does not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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