Keystone XL Delayed

[Guest American Woman]

Are you going to suggest that no matter where this pipeline was routed the environmental lobby wouldn't be screaming and howling and demanding Obama kill it?

Of course I'm not. I'm speaking of the Nebraskans who want the pipeline rerouted; those who are concerned about their water supply. That should be quite obvious. That appears to be the hold-up. There are environmentalists from all over, including Canada, that oppose it for environmental reasons, but it seems as if the concern about the route regarding the water supply is the main issue holding it up.

Of course they will. And you can't blame Nebraska's nimby attitude as that's nationwide, and it was the US government which made the decision, not Nebraska.

The US government made the decision with Nebraska in mind. Nebraska is part of the US, and as such, deserves consideration for issues that directly affect them. Their well-being, their livelihood, better matter to the POTUS. They better be listened to when they speak of what's occurring in their state.

Right now we're shipping oil to the US at a discount because of how overloaded that pipeline is. We need to stop that, and start sending it to the Japanese and Chinese.

As I said, do as you please. You honestly think Nebraskans should be discounted for the sake of the pipeline? That their opinion shouldn't matter? That the threat to them should just be dismissed? You do realize the pipeline could be rerouted, right?

[Guest American Woman]

What a strange thread. Americans have every right to determine what constitutes an environmental issue on their own territory. It doesn't have to make sense and they don't have to justify it to us. I'm amazed that Canadians would assume otherwise considering what their reaction would be to Americans dictating to us on similar issues regarding our territory.

Thank you for that refreshing POV, Wilber.

[Guest American Woman]

And when the US is short of oil and Canadian oil is being pumped to tankers headed for China the people of Nebraska can, to quote a previous Alberta premier, freeze in the dark.

How nice. Thanks, neighbor.

[bush_cheney2004]

And when the US is short of oil and Canadian oil is being pumped to tankers headed for China the people of Nebraska can, to quote a previous Alberta premier, freeze in the dark.

Nebraska is famous for it's nice, dark skies, one of the few such places left in the US. Amateur astronomers welcome your threat.

[jacee]

Why doesn't Alberta just funnel weapons and special ops forces into Nebraska and install a friendly dictator there?

Isn't that how it's usually done when something gets in the way of the big oil interests?

ooooo ouchie!

[bush_cheney2004]

ooooo ouchie!

Yes...I believe Paul Martin is available for another mission.

[olp1fan]

Nebraska is famous for it's nice, dark skies, one of the few such places left in the US. Amateur astronomers welcome your threat.

most of Canada is dark at night, we win

[olp1fan]

What a strange thread. Americans have every right to determine what constitutes an environmental issue on their own territory. It doesn't have to make sense and they don't have to justify it to us. I'm amazed that Canadians would assume otherwise considering what their reaction would be to Americans dictating to us on similar issues regarding our territory.

americans don't seem to care when it comes to canada

they don't care if their factories seep polution into canada...they certainly didn't give a damn when they let a ND river cross into a river in manitoba thus threatening its species with invasive creatures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devils_Lake_%28North_Dakota%29

pray tell why we should give a crap what they are concerned with?

[Guest American Woman]

most of Canada is dark at night, we win

To quote you ...... does anyone even live in [most of Canada]? hardly

americans don't seem to care when it comes to canada

they don't care if their factories seep polution into canada...they certainly didn't give a damn when they let a ND river cross into a river in manitoba thus threatening its species with invasive creatures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devils_Lake_%28North_Dakota%29

pray tell why we should give a crap what they are concerned with?

Don't give a crap. Do whatever you want. In your country.

This isn't about you doing something in your country that we don't like - such as the example you gave; it's about you thinking you have a right to tell us what to do in our country and thinking that your well being should trump ours - in our country. Ridiculous. Our POTUS doesn't act in your best interest, just as your PM doesn't act in ours.

[olp1fan]

AW you act like Obama is concerned about the NEB environment...he delayed it until 2013 because theres an election at the end of 2012 and these people said they wouldn't vote for him had he agreed to the pipeline

this isn't an environmental move its a political move by your leader

[olp1fan]

it's about you thinking you have a right to tell us what to do in our country and thinking that your well being should trump ours - in our country. Ridiculous. Our POTUS doesn't act in your best interest, just as your PM doesn't act in ours.

funny cause the U.S government bullies nations all around the world when it doesn't agree with their policies

you're not one to talk ..given you sticking your nose in business that has zilch to do with your country ala safe injection site

and guess whos country was so against it in the first place? yours

they ramped up the pressure on the cons to close it

Edited November 11, 2011 by olp1fan

[dre]

This is good news all round! I dont blame people for not wanting an oil pipeline going over land they have to live off... especially if they wont be getting a tidy share of the profits.

Its good news for Canada as well. We are better off diversifying trade, and building the infrasture we need to do business in asian markets. Thats where the economic growth is, and where demand is increasing fastest.

[olp1fan]

This is good news all round! I dont blame people for not wanting an oil pipeline going over land they have to live off...

A good chunk of the protest groups came from California and then there is the celebrities that live in california...

Edited November 11, 2011 by olp1fan

[Wild Bill]

Much better if Nebraskans suffered, eh? How selfish of them to look out for themselves and their families! As an American, I apologize for their not putting your wishes, your well being, above theirs. How dare they put themselves above your well being the way you are putting your well being above theirs!

Here's one existing pipeline that didn't seem to bother them none!

http://www.rubypipeline.com/

"Ruby includes approximately 680 miles of 42-inch natural gas transmission pipeline, beginning at the Opal Hub in Wyoming and terminating near Malin, Oregon. Ruby has an initial design capacity of up to 1.5 billion cubic feet per day (Bcf/d) and traverses portions of four states: Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, and Oregon. The project utilizes four compressor stations: one near the Opal Hub in southwestern Wyoming; one south of Curlew Junction, Utah; one at the mid-point of the project, north of Elko, Nevada; and one in northwestern Nevada."

Here's another:

ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/western.html

"The Kern River Transmission Company system (1.8 Bcf per day), which begins at Opal, Wyoming, and extends through Utah and Nevada to Kern County, California, is currently the primary source of supply for the area, providing over 80 percent of the natural gas consumed in southern Navada."

Here's a list of pipeline companies in Nevada:

http://www.manta.com/mb_44_E326Y_29/crude_petroleum_pipelines/nevada

A simple google shows lots more going on, AW. Nevadans don't seem to have worried much up till now!

So again, what makes THIS pipeline so special? Either they like Saudis more than Canadians or Obama is playing political games. That's his privilege, of course. It's also Canada's privilege not to wait around for him. Of course, it's not looking like he's going to win a second term anyway, unless the Republicans really blow it.

[dre]

Here's one existing pipeline that didn't seem to bother them none!

http://www.rubypipeline.com/

"Ruby includes approximately 680 miles of 42-inch natural gas transmission pipeline, beginning at the Opal Hub in Wyoming and terminating near Malin, Oregon. Ruby has an initial design capacity of up to 1.5 billion cubic feet per day (Bcf/d) and traverses portions of four states: Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, and Oregon. The project utilizes four compressor stations: one near the Opal Hub in southwestern Wyoming; one south of Curlew Junction, Utah; one at the mid-point of the project, north of Elko, Nevada; and one in northwestern Nevada."

Here's another:

ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/western.html

"The Kern River Transmission Company system (1.8 Bcf per day), which begins at Opal, Wyoming, and extends through Utah and Nevada to Kern County, California, is currently the primary source of supply for the area, providing over 80 percent of the natural gas consumed in southern Navada."

Here's a list of pipeline companies in Nevada:

http://www.manta.com/mb_44_E326Y_29/crude_petroleum_pipelines/nevada

A simple google shows lots more going on, AW. Nevadans don't seem to have worried much up till now!

So again, what makes THIS pipeline so special? Either they like Saudis more than Canadians or Obama is playing political games. That's his privilege, of course. It's also Canada's privilege not to wait around for him. Of course, it's not looking like he's going to win a second term anyway, unless the Republicans really blow it.

I think it makes way more sense for us to build a pipeline to a deepwater port that will allow us to export to ANY market.

I recommend this property here...

http://www.roadsidethoughts.com/bc/surf-inlet-profile.htm

Its a deepwater inlet with a fairly large piece of land for sale for a few million dollars. In addition to that theres a river on the property that could fill a few large tankers per day with clean fresh water, and theres also substancial aggregate assets, and a whole mountain (literally) of granite.

[blueblood]

I think it makes way more sense for us to build a pipeline to a deepwater port that will allow us to export to ANY market.

I recommend this property here...

http://www.roadsidethoughts.com/bc/surf-inlet-profile.htm

Its a deepwater inlet with a fairly large piece of land for sale for a few million dollars. In addition to that theres a river on the property that could fill a few large tankers per day with clean fresh water, and theres also substancial aggregate assets, and a whole mountain (literally) of granite.

It makes even more sense to have pipelines going to Texas AND to the west coast. Let it flow!!!

[Guest Derek L]

Cheaper to whom? It might well be cheaper for the companies involved if they already have assets in the US but is it better for Canada? I think it isn't. I think it's better for us to refine it here, and keep the jobs and profit here.

For the companies obviously……….But, as I stated above, we’d get and additional $15-20 per barrel with the terminus in Houston as opposed to the current one in Cushing Oklahoma…….It defiantly benefit’s the oil companies, but also Canada as a whole………more taxable profit etc.

[blueblood]

For the companies obviously……….But, as I stated above, we’d get and additional $15-20 per barrel with the terminus in Houston as opposed to the current one in Cushing Oklahoma…….It defiantly benefit’s the oil companies, but also Canada as a whole………more taxable profit etc.

A 20 billion dollar refinery is not chump change. An investment like that would be very hard on a company's books. It was a no brained to send the oil to Texas as planned. I'd like to know what Canadian outfit has the ability to raise 20 billion of capital. Heck they had a heck of a time finding investors to out bit bhp billion for potashcorp. And th only reason bhp billion didn't get it is because the Feds put the brakes on it.

[Guest Derek L]

This is good news all round! I dont blame people for not wanting an oil pipeline going over land they have to live off... especially if they wont be getting a tidy share of the profits.

Its good news for Canada as well. We are better off diversifying trade, and building the infrasture we need to do business in asian markets. Thats where the economic growth is, and where demand is increasing fastest.

The loss of Keystone XL won’t diversify trade……..The TransMountain line expansion (already underway) was happening regardless, so in affect, our planned markets were contracting………..In the end, it won’t mater though, the existing lines will be expanded and extended for the already existing Bakkan fields in North Dakota, so further expansion is defiantly doable.

[Guest Derek L]

A 20 billion dollar refinery is not chump change. An investment like that would be very hard on a company's books. It was a no brained to send the oil to Texas as planned. I'd like to know what Canadian outfit has the ability to raise 20 billion of capital. Heck they had a heck of a time finding investors to out bit bhp billion for potashcorp. And th only reason bhp billion didn't get it is because the Feds put the brakes on it.

Exactly, and as already mentioned, we’d still have to ship the finished product to be distributed……Instead of shipping crude/bitumen, we’d have to ship the various refined fuel grades, diesel, bunker, kerosene etc…….

[Shady]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-10/transcanada-s-keystone-pipeline-is-delayed-by-u-s-to-study-alternatives.html

It's like the Obama Administration doesn't even care about jobs. Oh well, lets hope that Romney does.

I agree. 20,000 new jobs on hold as Obama fiddles.

[olp1fan]

its purely a political strategy by Obama to get as many votes as he can..he has the environmental vote locked in now

this is really a slap in the face to Canada...hes like well Canada will get over it, I'm Obama, so they'll wait

same with the buy american bill he introduced

hes probably like "well, its just Canada, no big deal"

The Americans see Canada as weak therefore this is how they deal with us

[Guest American Woman]

Here's one existing pipeline that didn't seem to bother them none!

http://www.rubypipeline.com/

"Ruby includes approximately 680 miles of 42-inch natural gas transmission pipeline, beginning at the Opal Hub in Wyoming and terminating near Malin, Oregon. Ruby has an initial design capacity of up to 1.5 billion cubic feet per day (Bcf/d) and traverses portions of four states: Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, and Oregon. The project utilizes four compressor stations: one near the Opal Hub in southwestern Wyoming; one south of Curlew Junction, Utah; one at the mid-point of the project, north of Elko, Nevada; and one in northwestern Nevada."

I haven't been referring to Nevada, I've been referring to the route through Nebraska. It's Nebraskans who are concerned about the route, and again, it's because an oil leak would affect 80% of their water source for drinking and irrigation. How many jobs do you think that would affect, speaking strictly of jobs? As I said, ranchers are against this route. It's not all environmentalists by any means. It's liberals and conservatives.

Here's another:

ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/western.html

"The Kern River Transmission Company system (1.8 Bcf per day), which begins at Opal, Wyoming, and extends through Utah and Nevada to Kern County, California, is currently the primary source of supply for the area, providing over 80 percent of the natural gas consumed in southern Navada."

Again, that's Nevada, not Nebraska, and I see nothing about the pipeline threatening the main source of their drinking water.

Here's a list of pipeline companies in Nevada:

http://www.manta.com/mb_44_E326Y_29/crude_petroleum_pipelines/nevada

A simple google shows lots more going on, AW. Nevadans don't seem to have worried much up till now!

By now I'm sure you recognize that you have mistaken "Nebraska" for "Nevada," but even Nebraska has pipelines - the objection to this one is the route - as I've said repeatedly, the fact that 80% of their water supply is put in jeopardy. You do recognize that water is a valuable resource too, right? I recall several posters on MLW in effect saying 'f*ck Americans if they need our water supply in the future.' Makes it even more ludicrous that they should put your well being above their own. Really, WB, why do you think they should do that? And would you do the same if the situation were reversed? Would you expect Albertans to put aside their best interests and put themselves, their well being, in jeopardy for Americans? What would your response be to Americans who expected that?

So again, what makes THIS pipeline so special? Either they like Saudis more than Canadians or Obama is playing political games.

I truly believe that you realize it's not about "liking Saudis more than Canadians." If you really can't see it, it's about putting Americans' concerns above Canadians,' and I would hope that would be the case - just as I would expect your PM to put Canadians' well being above Americans'. Wouldn't you?

And again, what makes this pipeline so "special" is the route. If you want this pipeline so badly, why aren't you supporting the company rerouting it?

That's his privilege, of course. It's also Canada's privilege not to wait around for him. Of course, it's not looking like he's going to win a second term anyway, unless the Republicans really blow it.

Of course it's his privilege. Just as it's the privilege of Nebraskans to hold a special legislative meeting to address the issue and have a say as to what goes on in their state - which affects them greatly. What kind of country would this be if that was of no concern? of no consequence?

Furthermore, we have witnessed a huge oil spill recently, which proves such a spill/leak is possible - making the concern greater. They have said as much. Nebraskans would be fools to not be concerned about the all too real possibility when it affects their well being, their livelihood, so greatly. Why would you expect them to react differently?

And yes, it most definitely is Canada's privilege not to wait around for anything. If Canada doesn't want to make any concessions to make the project more acceptable to Nebraskans, Canada can - and I'm sure, will - do whatever it pleases.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And yes, it most definitely is Canada's privilege not to wait around for anything. If Canada doesn't want to make any concessions to make the project more acceptable to Nebraskans, Canada can - and I'm sure, will - do whatever it pleases.

Oh the irony...Canadians sure as hell "waited" for American capital and technology to invest in the tarsands oil extraction process, development of the site, existing pipeline infrastructure, refining capacity, and distribution to American markets. Now all of the sudden Canada can do it all by themselves? LOL!

[Wild Bill]

And yes, it most definitely is Canada's privilege not to wait around for anything. If Canada doesn't want to make any concessions to make the project more acceptable to Nebraskans, Canada can - and I'm sure, will - do whatever it pleases.

Thanks for correcting me on the Nebraska/Nevada thing. I admit I'm not that good on foreign geography, AW!

It does seem to boil down to each party having to decide what's best for themselves. America is going one way and Canada will go another.

Still, there's one unanswered question. If the balloon does up in the middle East, like Iran nuking Israel or closing the Straits of Hormuz, what ARE you Americans going to do? Reserves are just that, reserves. Sooner or later they run out. Meanwhile, the price of oil at your pumps will go through the roof almost immediately. Do those voters against the pipeline properly understand this? Or do they think that somehow Obama will wave a magic wand?