Europe is an economic basket case

[Argus]

Ya think? I understand the unemployment rate for those 18-25 is 40% in some countries. Young university grads from Ireland to Italy see no prospects for obtaining a decent job. Most young French people are only able to get part-time work. Millions of young, educated professionals, a high number of whom speak English, are looking for something to do with their lives.

Meanwhile, Canada will take in another 275,000 mostly third world immigrants this year, few of whom will speak any English (or French), few of whom will have any job skills or education, many of whom will immediately go on welfare and stay there for the remainder of their lives.

Seems odd to me.

Europe's Lost Generation

Edited November 9, 2011 by Argus

[olp1fan]

Northern Euros are doing just fine its the Southern Euros that aren't

[Black Dog]

Ya think? I understand the unemployment rate for those 18-25 is 40% in some countries. Young university grads from Ireland to Italy see no prospects for obtaining a decent job. Most young French people are only able to get part-time work. Millions of young, educated professionals, a high number of whom speak English, are looking for something to do with their lives.

Meanwhile, Canada will take in another 275,000 mostly third world immigrants this year, few of whom will speak any English (or French), few of whom will have any job skills or education, many of whom will immediately go on welfare and stay there for the remainder of their lives.

Seems odd to me.

Europe's Lost Generation

What's really odd that, in a post full of stats and figures, you'd fail to quantify such a key part of your argument. What percentage of 275,000 is "mostly"? How many is "many"? What are the "few"?

[Shady]

Northern Euros are doing just fine its the Southern Euros that aren't

You're definitely right about Northern Europe vs Southern Europe. Southern Europe is a complete mess.

[August1991]

What's really odd that, in a post full of stats and figures, you'd fail to quantify such a key part of your argument. What percentage of 275,000 is "mostly"? How many is "many"? What are the "few"?

Canada's immigration policies are supposedly "colour blind". In fact, we tend to accept/select immigrants from places where we have immigration offices. We have many in Asia, few in Africa.

I reckon that Argus wants Canada to open more offices in Europe.

[GostHacked]

You're definitely right about Northern Europe vs Southern Europe. Southern Europe is a complete mess.

The economies are interwined and connected. They may not hurt now, but they eventually will. Remember, people called me crazy for saying that the protests were comming to North America ... :/

[olp1fan]

The economies are interwined and connected. They may not hurt now, but they eventually will. Remember, people called me crazy for saying that the protests were comming to North America ... :/

what protests? theres like 50-100 people in each big city camping in tents getting high

hardly anything ... the media is the one that made it bigger deal than it really is

[August1991]

Young university grads from Ireland to Italy see no prospects for obtaining a decent job. Most young French people are only able to get part-time work. Millions of young, educated professionals, a high number of whom speak English, are looking for something to do with their lives.

I just passed several months in Europe, east and west, mostly north. Given my nature, I talked to alot of people.

Young people know that Canada is an option for work. It's surprising how many various programmes exist so that young people can travel and work abroad without much hassle for visas. The Schengen Agreement has radically changed Europe and I would hope for a similar agreement in North America. (Our own Brussels-style bureaucrat, Pierre-Marc Johnson, is supposedly negotiating the deal as I post.)

-----

Argus, compare selling your house or car today, with selling it 30 years ago. Nowadays, people use the Internet. They can quickly compare prices on cars of similar mileage or for a house, use Google Earth to check out the neighbourhood.

The modern labour market is no different.

IMHO, without good contacts, it is hard to find a first job in Europe and Quebec. A few young people in Lvov asked about Calgary but I said that they'd probably like Edmonton instead. A young woman in eastern Germany (Dresden) who happened to be a francophile asked about the accent in Montreal.

Such is the modern world.

Edited November 10, 2011 by August1991

[Shwa]

Ya think? I understand the unemployment rate for those 18-25 is 40% in some countries. Young university grads from Ireland to Italy see no prospects for obtaining a decent job. Most young French people are only able to get part-time work. Millions of young, educated professionals, a high number of whom speak English, are looking for something to do with their lives.

So, in effect, import the people who made their own countries into economic basket cases? We have enough PhDs in Ballet and Circumpolar Marine Biology thank you very much.

Meanwhile, Canada will take in another 275,000 mostly third world immigrants this year, few of whom will speak any English (or French), few of whom will have any job skills or education, many of whom will immediately go on welfare and stay there for the remainder of their lives.

Seems odd to me.

What seems odd to me Argus is that you haven't been paying attention to the news:

Reshape and rejuvenate workforce through immigration: Kenney

Kenney says when he is done with his multiple reforms of the system, the flow of newcomers into Canada will be predominantly young, well educated, highly skilled, and fluent in English or French.

They’ll be admitted to Canada within a year of applying.

I am pretty sure Jason Kenny comes on to this forum just to hear what you have to saying about immigration. It seems that what he is doing is what you have been advocating for all along. Aren't you happy?

“I think it’s important for policy makers to listen to public opinion on immigration and not become disconnected from public opinion, which has arguably led to some of the problems in Western Europe.”

See? And since most of the "predominantly young, well educated, highly skilled, and fluent in English or French" in Western Europe are likely working somehow that only leaves the rabble and rioters. We don't want them do we?

Oh-oh...

Under the Conservative government, Canada has let in an average of 254,000 immigrants a year, which is high by historical standards.

Oh, no...

Next spring, the minister wants to re-jig the point system that allows economic immigrants to qualify. Youth and high-quality education will be worth more, and the emphasis on English or French fluency is likely to be increased. Quantity of education will matter less, the minister says.

But this isn’t the first time Kenney has tried to reform the stream of economic immigrants, points out Davies.

Kenney has given three major directives over the past few years to limit applications and put certain professions at the front of the queue. The fact that he’s rehashing the system yet again is a sign that his previous attempts have failed, Davies says.

[CPCFTW]

From my experience, there's a surprising amount of new Irish immigrants in Canada.

[Battletoads]

From my experience, there's a surprising amount of new Irish immigrants in Canada.

Not surprising, their goverment ran the country into the ground with their high deficits and corporate tax cuts... Hmm sounds familiar.

[blueblood]

Not surprising, their goverment ran the country into the ground with their high deficits and corporate tax cuts... Hmm sounds familiar.

Wrong, they bailed out all of their banks and gave the taxpayer/Europe the bill. Their gov't got stupid with imposing lax lending standards like the USA.

What's funny is that with all the austerity, no politician in Ireland is touching corporate taxes, why is that, and please no tin foil hat answers.

[punked]

Northern Euros are doing just fine its the Southern Euros that aren't

You do know Northern Europe is heavily invested in Southern Europe right?

[Shady]

You do know Northern Europe is heavily invested in Southern Europe right?

You do know that northern Europe is in a much better fiscal postion than the south right?

[Bonam]

Ya think? I understand the unemployment rate for those 18-25 is 40% in some countries. Young university grads from Ireland to Italy see no prospects for obtaining a decent job. Most young French people are only able to get part-time work. Millions of young, educated professionals, a high number of whom speak English, are looking for something to do with their lives.

I'm not sure how well this alarmist description really describes the situation. People throw around the same kinds of numbers and statements about the US and Canada. But the reality that I've seen stands in stark contrast, with everyone I know who got a degree in a useful field having a job right out of university, and employers struggling to find enough qualified employees.

I think the real "crisis" is that millions of these "educated professionals" got educated in worthless degrees without thinking about their job prospects, and are now surprised to not find riches handed to them on a platter.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

You do know that northern Europe is in a much better fiscal postion than the south right?

If the southern countries fall, the northern ones will eventually fall. As I see it, only a couple countries may go unscathed.

Compare it to western provinces to eastern ones. Will it affect Canada overall? The EU is just a bigger 'country' with these countries as states or provinces.

Maybe you should just stick to predicting election winners. You seem to do good there.

[fellowtraveller]

There are an increasing number of Brits here, or so it seems from personal experience.

In the last year or so I have met Brit engineers, nurses, medical technologists, engineering technologists, tradspeople and one that surprised me: police.

They are ideal immigrants: motivated, breeding age, educated, skilled and looking to work.

[fellowtraveller]

Compare it to western provinces to eastern ones. Will it affect Canada overall? The EU is just a bigger 'country' with these countries as states or provinces.

You cannot compare EU countries to Canadas provinces.

A major, major difference is that Canadian provinces are united by a national fiscal policy, and the EU is not.

[punked]

You do know that northern Europe is in a much better fiscal postion than the south right?

Why? Because their banks own all the debt of the south? Yah that is going to go great when the south refuses to pay then the banks who have say 2 Trillion in debt fall the North loses it all. They are only in a better fiscal position because of the assumption the south will pay once they can't and the whole economy has to take that loss the north is just as bad as the south.

Shady have the idea you don't actually understand what is going on over there.

[wyly]

See? And since most of the "predominantly young, well educated, highly skilled, and fluent in English or French" in Western Europe are likely working somehow that only leaves the rabble and rioters. We don't want them do we?

which many canadians don't understand, while some people emmigrate seeking adventure or for political reasons the vast majority do it for economic reasons, the best and brightest of europe have careers and comfortable lifestyles and little desire to start from scratch in what many consider a cultural backwater...the ones that we attract are the often the bottom of the barrel types...

[fellowtraveller]

And since most of the "predominantly young, well educated, highly skilled, and fluent in English or French" in Western Europe are likely working somehow that only leaves the rabble and rioters.

That may have been true 20 years ago, but it is increasingly untrue.

In France for example, school leavers are not even included in unemployment statistics. The official unemployment rate is 9.5, in reality it is much higher and the younger people are hardest hit. There are no career type jobs, or very few. Casual work, which is easy to get in Canada, is much more difficult there because of labour laws. Grads are encoraged to go on to grad school at govt expense and many do , there are no jobs.

Don't see many here yet because they have degrees but zero work experience, no money, no contacts and no real desire to leave their families and friends.

I have seen a bunch of new arrivals in the last couple of years from UK, all economic refugees. The economy is not good at all there.

[Smallc]

the best and brightest of europe have careers and comfortable lifestyles and little desire to start from scratch in what many consider a cultural backwater...the ones that we attract are the often the bottom of the barrel types...

Sure...except that Canada has a higher standard of living than most European countries, especially those in the east and the south. And a cultural backwater? Really?

[wyly]

Sure...except that Canada has a higher standard of living than most European countries, especially those in the east and the south.

and you would know that how?...actually most of europe rates very favourably with canada in HDI values...and those are the countries that posters want to pull immigrants from, they don't want the non english or french speaking ones from elsewhere in europe...

And a cultural backwater? Really?

ya a cultural backwater, really ...

[CPCFTW]

Not surprising, their goverment ran the country into the ground with their high deficits and corporate tax cuts... Hmm sounds familiar.

They went from an agrarian economy to one of the wealthiest nations in the world (in terms of per capita GDP) in a matter of decades... Ireland's GDP per capita was less than 1/2 of Canada's in 1985, now it is equal (yes even after the massive collapse).

http://www.google.ca/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:IRL&dl=en&hl=en&q=ireland+gdp+per+capita#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:IRL:CAN&ifdim=country&hl=en&dl=en

Edited November 10, 2011 by CPCFTW

[wyly]

They went from an agrarian economy to one of the wealthiest nations in the world (in terms of per capita GDP) in a matter of decades... Ireland's GDP per capita was less than 1/2 of Canada's in 1985, now it is equal (yes even after the massive collapse).

http://www.google.ca/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:IRL&dl=en&hl=en&q=ireland+gdp+per+capita#ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:IRL:CAN&ifdim=country&hl=en&dl=en

ya but they were like a third world country open for business, it created a false economy the boom died and it's all come tumbling down...