wyly Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Kinda resonates that old infamous quote: "you're either with us or against us" ....everything must be the fault of those evil eyeranians....damn! exactly, any discussion not favourable to israel brings an immediate response of "godwins law" "holocaust" "anti semite" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Right....having nuclear weapons is more stabilizing except when dealing with terrorists or rogue states. People called the USSR a rogue state too, and like Iran the USSR used the same firey rhetoric. Pakistan is another "crazy rogue religious nut" state as well. THe bottom line is that the leaders of these states lead incredibly privileged lives and enjoy comfort, wealth, and power. Theres no reason to believe that Irans leader is going to commit suicide, and nothing in his past behavior would lead you to that conclusion. Hes a pretty carefull guy thats all about preserving his own reign, wealth, power, and privilege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 People called the USSR a rogue state too, and like Iran the USSR used the same firey rhetoric. Pakistan is another "crazy rogue religious nut" state as well. "People" have also called the USA a rogue state, but UN NPT sanctions exist for Iran, not the Americans. Take it up with them. THe bottom line is that the leaders of these states lead incredibly privileged lives and enjoy comfort, wealth, and power. Theres no reason to believe that Irans leader is going to commit suicide, and nothing in his past behavior would lead you to that conclusion. Hes a pretty carefull guy thats all about preserving his own reign, wealth, power, and privilege. Actually, "suicide" is very popular these days for one's political or religious cause. Perception of the threat is more important than the reality. Possession of a nuclear weapon by terrorists or through state sponsorship is at the top of the very high risk list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 "People" have also called the USA a rogue state, but UN NPT sanctions exist for Iran, not the Americans. Take it up with them. Actually, "suicide" is very popular these days for one's political or religious cause. Perception of the threat is more important than the reality. Possession of a nuclear weapon by terrorists or through state sponsorship is at the top of the very high risk list. Oh yeah I know! Tons of heads of state commiting suicide these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Oh yeah I know! Tons of heads of state commiting suicide these days! Your "Head of State" has no control over nuclear weapons, but she does have a fantastic hat collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 People called the USSR a rogue state too, and like Iran the USSR used the same firey rhetoric. Pakistan is another "crazy rogue religious nut" state as well. Not in my lifetime. Russia/USSR has been/was called many things but not a rogue state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) People called the USSR a rogue state too, and like Iran the USSR used the same firey rhetoric. Pakistan is another "crazy rogue religious nut" state as well. "Indeed those bloody 'commies' deserved what they got. Let them starve." Now I am not gonna sit here and cite where I have seen this quote just because some people are in denial...USSR and its people were tarnished as the baddies in the 80s like what is happening to iranians today. I am still surprised to see that some can not even distinguish between iranians and their government.... THe bottom line is that the leaders of these states lead incredibly privileged lives and enjoy comfort, wealth, and power. Theres no reason to believe that Irans leader is going to commit suicide, and nothing in his past behavior would lead you to that conclusion. Hes a pretty carefull guy thats all about preserving his own reign, wealth, power, and privilege. Exactly. This has been my point all the time. They guy may be fanatic but he is not stupid to undermine the consequences which is MAD (Mutually Assured Distruction) Furthermore, the history has many examples of countries that managed to gradually evolve and change from within. Do not be under any illusion that the average Iranians today with 65% below the age of 30 is more in tune with their iphones, Ipads, latest trends in fashion. They are also aspiring to many own great talents, film directors, scientists, entrepreneurs, etc than ayatollahs and their antiquated preachings...We need to reach them not alienating them because someone tells us so. Edited November 5, 2011 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 "Indeed those bloody 'commies' deserved what they got. Let them starve." Now I am not gonna sit here and cite where I have seen this quote just because some people are in denial...USSR and its people were tarnished as the baddies in the 80s like what is happening to iranians today. I am still surprised to see that some can not even distinguish between iranians and their government.... Exactly. This has been my point all the time. They guy may be fanatic but he is not stupid to undermine the consequences which is MAD (Mutually Assured Distruction) Furthermore, the history has many examples of countries that managed to gradually evolve and change from within. Do not be under any illusion that the average Iranians today with 65% below the age of 30 is more in tune with their iphones, Ipads, latest trends in fashion. They are also aspiring to many own great talents, film directors, scientists, entrepreneurs, etc than ayatollahs and their antiquated preachings...We need to reach them not alienating them because someone tells us so. While the rest of the civilized planet dropped their biological warfare programs, the Soviets went full bore ahead weaponizing variola (that would be smallpox)...but no...they weren't being bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 While the rest of the civilized planet That the problem with these kinds of language.....demonizing everybody else considered uncivilized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 That the problem with these kinds of language.....demonizing everybody else considered uncivilized. I'm losing patience with people who won't call it like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I'm losing patience with people who won't call it like it is. That's ok. They're probably losing patience with people who refuse to acknowledge that Muslims don't form a homogeneous group and that there are Muslims who are dying every day for confronting the dogmatic and repressive factions in their society. Meanwhile, there's people who would broadbrush right over them with the uncivilized label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 That's ok. They're probably losing patience with people who refuse to acknowledge that Muslims don't form a homogeneous group and that there are Muslims who are dying every day for confronting the dogmatic and repressive factions in their society. Meanwhile, there's people who would broadbrush right over them with the uncivilized label. Why do we hear about such horrors as bombs being set off at location No. 1, and another bomb being set off near a hospital they'd go to for care only from the Muslim world? I'm not saying there are no horrors such as Oklahoma City from the non-Muslim world (though there did seem to be some Phillipine Muslim involvement there) but don't most of these horrors come from one place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Yeah, so? Don't they also live under repressive regimes for the most part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Why do we hear about such horrors as bombs being set off at location No. 1, and another bomb being set off near a hospital they'd go to for care only from the Muslim world? I'm not saying there are no horrors such as Oklahoma City from the non-Muslim world (though there did seem to be some Phillipine Muslim involvement there) but don't most of these horrors come from one place? And what is the relevance of your post to the topic being discussed here??? Or are you discriminating against iranians because they are part of that place? Who are you to justify an iranian born as a muslim shall bear the burden of these terrorist activities (lumping it as "muslim world"? Your negative generalisation/ ignorance to misrepresent a nationality based on religious belief is truely shocking to say the least! You often criticize people critical of israeli policies which is not surprising. Yet you show no tolerance for people who defend iranians constantly and indiscriminately viewed though a tinted spectacle and tarnished as terrorist muslims! Edited November 7, 2011 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 That the problem with these kinds of language.....demonizing everybody else considered uncivilized. Oh, yeah...we must try to understand with humane compassion why a particular society must weaponize the smallpox virus. I have a fwiend in Wome by the name of Biggus Dickus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Oh, yeah...we must try to understand with humane compassion why a particular society must weaponize the smallpox virus. Laughable at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Iran going nuclear will change the region dramatically. Putting nukes in the hands of a nutbar who wants to wipe out another country is the definition of insanity. It's much worse than letting Hitler re-arm Germany in the 30's, and that didn't turn out so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Laughable at best. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program#Smallpox No need to appear stupid, GH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Iran going nuclear will change the region dramatically. Putting nukes in the hands of a nutbar who wants to wipe out another country is the definition of insanity. So instead we have Israel and the US acting like the mad men who want to take out the other mad man before he goes mad by getting mad at the madman and acting like a madman yourself. Iraq. Afghanistan. Libya. It's much worse than letting Hitler re-arm Germany in the 30's, and that didn't turn out so well. Turn it around and look at the Global War on Terror to Hitler's rhetoric. And please tell me when the last time Iran instigated anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_biological_weapons_program#Smallpox No need to appear stupid, GH. No I mean laughable at best because other countries have developed weaponized germs as well. And they have actually used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 No I mean laughable at best because other countries have developed weaponized germs as well. And they have actually used them. Oh yeah? Who has used them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Take a breath, Gost. Now clear your mind of your biases, just for one moment please. Think critically about the president of Iran. What has he said and done in the last 5 years? Why has he done this? Why has Russia paired up with Iran and is helping them go nuclear? How does Russia benefit from this? Would you care to take a stab at this or are you content to raise strawmen arguments? Edit: Turn it around and look at the Global War on Terror to Hitler's rhetoric. And please tell me when the last time Iran instigated anything? Iran? Iran is not the issue, isn't that plain? It's the nutbar president and religious tyrants running Iran which is the problem. Whether or not Iran has 'started' anything is just another dodge of the issue. And good grief, you are comparing Hitler to the War on Terror. On second thought, don't bother responding. Hitler had 6 million Jews wiped out and the war he started saw 17 million deaths all together. Get real. Edited November 7, 2011 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Take a breath, Gost. Now clear your mind of your biases, just for one moment please. Think critically about the president of Iran. What has he said and done in the last 5 years? Why has he done this? Why has Russia paired up with Iran and is helping them go nuclear? How does Russia benefit from this? So, what do our leaders say about those guys? Why are we gearing up for war with Iran? Why are we being the instigators? What is the benefit for us to bomb Iran? Would you care to take a stab at this or are you content to raise strawmen arguments? The real strawman is that Iran needs to be invaded. Iran? Iran is not the issue, isn't that plain? It's the nutbar president and religious tyrants running Iran which is the problem. Whether or not Iran has 'started' anything is just another dodge of the issue. What has Iran started? What has the USA started? Give your head a shake. And it's not dodging the issue, but showing the hypocracy in rhetoric towards Iran. Hell we just got 'done' with Libya. America FUCK YEAH another war. We going to start with Humanitarian bombs on these Persians? And good grief, you are comparing Hitler to the War on Terror. On second thought, don't bother responding. Hitler had 6 million Jews wiped out and the war he started saw 17 million deaths all together. Get real. And comparing what Iran MIGHT do, to what Germany did, is just as ridiculous. I am just building ridiculous on ridiculous. Doggy equates all that including the holocaust to what Iran MIGHT do. Creating fear in us so we go along with bombing Iran and not feel like an ass about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Take a breath, Gost. Now clear your mind of your biases, just for one moment please. Think critically about the president of Iran. What has he said and done in the last 5 years? Why has he done this? Why has Russia paired up with Iran and is helping them go nuclear? How does Russia benefit from this? Would you care to take a stab at this or are you content to raise strawmen arguments? Ok, I will take a stab at this really really hard Sharkman but...please do enlighten me why has those evil commies (Russia) paired up with Iran? What has he said and done in the last 5 years? Nothing much lots of rhetorics no substance, but hey a lot of people do. But I guess what you meant was a comment he made that "Israel must be wiped off the map", which was mistranslated. So what's your point? Let me pre-empt your next reaction before you start going on about this. There is no love for this guy at home nor outside of Iran. But let's imagine this, if both your neighbouring countries are occpied by foreign forces keeping in mind that there is a constant rhetorics of attacks by US and Israel surely having some kind of nuclear capability gives you reassurance that you will not become an easy target and used as a deterent. Just sayin... Edit: Iran? Iran is not the issue, isn't that plain? It's the nutbar president and religious tyrants running Iran which is the problem. Whether or not Iran has 'started' anything is just another dodge of the issue. This is hardly any surprise and Iranians know this best. Bombing a country based on this premise won't resolve the issue and would have long term consequences for US. And good grief, you are comparing Hitler to the War on Terror. On second thought, don't bother responding. Hitler had 6 million Jews wiped out and the war he started saw 17 million deaths all together. Get real. Many million russians and other nationalities too lost their lives. What happened in WWII is tragic. What is the relevance here? Millions of Iranians and iraqis lost lives through a lengthy war too. I am sure they do not want their people (including their jewish community) to be wiped out either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 1)I did not compare what Hitler did to what Iran might do. Go back and see what my comparison actually was. You shouldn't make false accusations. 2)The US will not be doing anything to Iran. They are broke and getting broker. Obama is not going to do it, he barely allowed his forces to do anything in Lybia. You need to quit playing the America card so often. 3)Our leaders(North AMerica) are saying nothing about bombing or attacking Iran, have I missed something? Perhaps you could cite where Obama or Harper has threatened attacks, or done anything remotely similar to Israel's preparations. Israel is mostly alone on this I'm pretty sure. 4)At least you admit that comparing Hitler to the war on terror was ridiculous. I see you have no thoughts on Russia. That's okay, the rest of the world is ignoring it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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