Boges Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 There's no real way to enforce this. I doubt they're going to hire special Shark fin agents to monitor China town. It's just a feel good bit of legislation. That actually means very little. Just think of all the Shark fin Speakeasys. There'll be a new crime syndicate getting your local City Wok Shark Fin. BTW if they cared about Shark's so much, why is it going to take a year for this legislation to be implemented? Can anyone tell I've been watching a lot of Boardwalk Empire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 There's no real way to enforce this. I doubt they're going to hire special Shark fin agents to monitor China town. Sure there is. The first thing will be health inspectors and by-law enforcement officers keeping an eye on things and some of them are Chinese. I would suspect that the dish will come off the menus at least to start. However, actually disciplining people for contravening the by-law or whatnot will be tough. It's just a feel good bit of legislation. That actually means very little. It actually means quite a bit. The largest city in Canada has just banned shark fins which is following international efforts to ban the practice of finning. While provincial or federal legislation banning shark fins is desired, this is a political step that could become an issue in the other political arenas. Just think of all the Shark fin Speakeasys. There'll be a new crime syndicate getting your local City Wok Shark Fin. Just like all those elephant ivory and rhinoceros horn speakeasys right? BTW if they cared about Shark's so much, why is it going to take a year for this legislation to be implemented? Because they have to work out the logistics of policing it and, more than likely, wait for the issue to gain traction at the provincial or federal level to let those authorities actually do the enforcement where it will count the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 People eat Ivory now? Coucillor Holliday is warning of potential law suit. I'm not opposed to this law but I don't think it will change much. Typical government to take a year to do something though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 People eat Ivory now? Is that what you think I meant by the reference to ivory? Coucillor Holliday is warning of potential law suit. I'm not opposed to this law but I don't think it will change much. I don't think there can be any reason to sue, even under a human rights commission thingy. At least not until there is some charge or violation. Even IF they get the stuff off the public menu, that will reduce the demand for shark fins. That is a step in the right direction. Typical government to take a year to do something though. As opposed to what, a big corporation? Microsoft Shark Fin Ban 1.0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I support this ban. I happen to think the ban is a year away to rid the supply they have now. Half the workforce in my office is first gen Chinese and although they say they like the soup, they too are glad it will be banned. It seems dumb to them they people eat it. I suspect it will curtail a lot of the import. Of course there will be underground spots who suppply the elders their treat, but it is a good step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I support this ban. I happen to think the ban is a year away to rid the supply they have now. Half the workforce in my office is first gen Chinese and although they say they like the soup, they too are glad it will be banned. It seems dumb to them they people eat it. I suspect it will curtail a lot of the import. Of course there will be underground spots who suppply the elders their treat, but it is a good step. I've had the soup I can't say it was any good, quite flavorless...I've read it's losing popularity in China as well which shows that if you educate/inform people they understand the stupidity of endangering animal populations... I used to love tuna but I've stopped eating it for the same reasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Benry Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 The Fed's should look into similar legislation. Its a nasty industry and should be kept out of Canada. If the Fed's took similar measures they could try and prevent the product from entering the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 What did they ban? ALL shark fins, or just imported shark fins? I ask because BC has a shark fishery that has recently received Marine Stewardship Council certification as sustainable. If the city bans al shark fins, this closes a potential market for this fishery for no reason... http://www.msc.org/track-a-fishery/certified/pacific/british-columbia-spiny-dogfish http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/spiny+dogfish+makes+history+world+first+sustainable+shark+fishery/5432392/story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I think cannibalism should be banned too. Maybe except for Socialist eating their young. It's very cruel to de fin a shark and pitch hundreds of lbs.of good food over board thrashing unable to swim. I can't accept anything that allows such. Now were they obligated to haul in the dressed shark to as food , then I'd have to agree that would be no worse than other harvesting of a food animal. I've eaten shark on the beach in Trinidad. It was quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It's just a feel good bit of legislation. That actually means very little. It reminds me of the legislation in the states that shut down horse farming operations for meat. The closed the local industry because, people like horses more than cows. The primary shipping destination was asia... so it was bringing money back too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It reminds me of the legislation in the states that shut down horse farming operations for meat. The closed the local industry because, people like horses more than cows. The primary shipping destination was asia... so it was bringing money back too. not at all the same...I don't agree with banning horses sold as meat, as domestic animals the product is controlled as is the harvesting of it... but the shark harvest has no control the uncontrolled hunt is destroying viability of shark population the oceans top apex predator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 What did they ban? ALL shark fins, or just imported shark fins? I ask because BC has a shark fishery that has recently received Marine Stewardship Council certification as sustainable. If the city bans al shark fins, this closes a potential market for this fishery for no reason... As I understand it our fins have only been a break even proposition for dogfish processors in BC. The fact the fins could be sold were actually more of a selling point in getting certification given there was complete utilization of our fish. Even if the ban goes into effect the fins will still be used by being turned into liquid fertilizer (probably for grow-ops). I don't think the ban will affect our fishery or even our prices. I'm not hearing any concern from other fishermen or buyers that suggests otherwise. This could probably be spun into even more good news for certifiers and a higher price for fishermen if we 'voluntarily' forgo selling fins. The MSC certification by the way resulted in a .5 a lb increase in prices, which makes quite a difference. I'm looking forward to maybe landing a few more next year myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 not at all the same...I don't agree with banning horses sold as meat, as domestic animals the product is controlled as is the harvesting of it... but the shark harvest has no control the uncontrolled hunt is destroying viability of shark population the oceans top apex predator... Yes. There is a clear difference. I just meant in the 'feel good' aspect of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I support this ban. I happen to think the ban is a year away to rid the supply they have now. Half the workforce in my office is first gen Chinese and although they say they like the soup, they too are glad it will be banned. It seems dumb to them they people eat it. I suspect it will curtail a lot of the import. Of course there will be underground spots who suppply the elders their treat, but it is a good step. You mean they just catch the shark and chop the fin off? That's wasteful, at least butcher the whole shark and sell the meat at discount. There would be lots of people looking for cheap meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 You mean they just catch the shark and chop the fin off? That's wasteful, at least butcher the whole shark and sell the meat at discount. There would be lots of people looking for cheap meat. No, from my understanding (a description of a documentary from a friend) - they catch the shark, chop off the fins then release it to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 not at all the same...I don't agree with banning horses sold as meat, as domestic animals the product is controlled as is the harvesting of it... but the shark harvest has no control the uncontrolled hunt is destroying viability of shark population the oceans top apex predator... That's not actually true about horsemeat. There are antibiotics and contaminants in horsemeat that make its consumption dangerous. The horses that go to the slaughter are not raised specifically as food. They're pets, racehorses and workhorses that are no longer wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 That's not actually true about horsemeat. There are antibiotics and contaminants in horsemeat that make its consumption dangerous. The horses that go to the slaughter are not raised specifically as food. They're pets, racehorses and workhorses that are no longer wanted. which are used for pet food... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 How well a ban can be enforced is beside the point, a clear statement has to be made that killing sharks for fins is not socially acceptable or environmentally sustainable. Some shark populations are down over 90% and extinction for some species is not that far off. There should be a real social stigma applied to this practice. That more than anything will discourage most people from indulging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archanfel Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 How well a ban can be enforced is beside the point, a clear statement has to be made that killing sharks for fins is not socially acceptable or environmentally sustainable. Some shark populations are down over 90% and extinction for some species is not that far off. There should be a real social stigma applied to this practice. That more than anything will discourage most people from indulging. Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line? If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line? If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins. They're becoming extinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Yet killing sharks for other things is perfectly acceptable? How about killing cows for their meat? Or killing potatoes for their roots? Where do we draw the line? If you really care about sharks then you should encourage eating shark fins and thus build an industry of raising sharks for their fins. It's not eating shark that is at issue. It is the unsustainable and wasteful practice (in other countries) of killing sharks for a small portion of the meat and wasting the rest. These sharks are being overfished because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archanfel Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) It's not eating shark that is at issue. It is the unsustainable and wasteful practice (in other countries) of killing sharks for a small portion of the meat and wasting the rest. These sharks are being overfished because of it. Then target the practice. Encourage legal fin supplies to push poachers out of the market. You can't fight against greed, it's a lost battle. Use greed to fight greed. Don't tell me you seriously think banning shark fins in Toronto would do anything. Banning it in Hong Kong, maybe, even then it would flourish in the black market. That's human nature. You have to find an alternative supply. Alternatively, remember what happened at maple leaf? wink, wink. Edited November 30, 2011 by Archanfel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Then target the practice. Encourage legal fin supplies to push poachers out of the market. You can't fight against greed, it's a lost battle. Use greed to fight greed. Don't tell me you seriously think banning shark fins in Toronto would do anything. Banning it in Hong Kong, maybe, even then it would flourish in the black market. That's human nature. You have to find an alternative supply. Alternatively, remember what happened at maple leaf? wink, wink. The poaching is occuring in other countries. Nothing Toronto can do about that. This should be a Canada-wide ban, but federal inaction is causing local jurisdictions to do what the federal gov't should be doing. Probably in the hopes that the feds will be pushed to do something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archanfel Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 The poaching is occuring in other countries. Nothing Toronto can do about that. This should be a Canada-wide ban, but federal inaction is causing local jurisdictions to do what the federal gov't should be doing. Probably in the hopes that the feds will be pushed to do something... Not if Toronto has a shark farm that can supply fins at 50% of the price as these "other countries" as long as people are clear this is for the preservation of the species rather than animal welfare (to keep price down, these farm sharks will likely be abused, I don't want to hear a peep from you guys). You can even flood the market with fake shark fins. Never fight the greed, let it fight itself. You just need to give it a push in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Your "solutions" make no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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