g_bambino Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I've been following many Occupy feeds on Twitter since the beginning. I can tell you unequivocally that this never happened. The MSM has portrayed Occupy in that light, probably as a way to discredit the movement... The message has always been the same. I'm sorry, but I have a pretty hard time believing that there was some kind of grand main stream media conspiracy to discredit the movement, especially in light of the fact that the Canadian media is so consistently accused of being biased in favour of anything left-leaning, as the Occupy protesters identify themselves. Frankly, if there were people who had a coherent message - and I believe there were - they should have dispensed with the idealistic "we have no leader" dreaminess and forbade the self-invited First Nations/Marxist/9-11 conspiracy/anti-globalisation/environmental/4:20/alien invasion/anarchist/etc./etc. perma-protesters from hijacking the platform, as on occasion literally happened. That and better PR would've helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'm sorry, but I have a pretty hard time believing that there was some kind of grand main stream media conspiracy to discredit the movement, especially in light of the fact that the Canadian media is so consistently accused of being biased in favour of anything left-leaning, as the Occupy protesters identify themselves. Frankly, if there were people who had a coherent message - and I believe there were - they should have dispensed with the idealistic "we have no leader" dreaminess and forbade the self-invited First Nations/Marxist/9-11 conspiracy/anti-globalisation/environmental/4:20/alien invasion/anarchist/etc./etc. perma-protesters from hijacking the platform, as on occasion literally happened. That and better PR would've helped. The occupiers are doing anything they can to avoid occupying a JOB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evening Star Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 the Canadian media is so consistently accused of being biased in favour of anything left-leaning, Despite the near-consensus Harper endorsements (and I could go on ad nauseum)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm sorry, but I have a pretty hard time believing that there was some kind of grand main stream media conspiracy to discredit the movement, especially in light of the fact that the Canadian media is so consistently accused of being biased in favour of anything left-leaning, as the Occupy protesters identify themselves. Frankly, if there were people who had a coherent message - and I believe there were - they should have dispensed with the idealistic "we have no leader" dreaminess and forbade the self-invited First Nations/Marxist/9-11 conspiracy/anti-globalisation/environmental/4:20/alien invasion/anarchist/etc./etc. perma-protesters from hijacking the platform, as on occasion literally happened. That and better PR would've helped. That's not even what I'm suggesting. However, it's patently obvious when Occupy has made it quite clear from the beginning what they're protesting, but the MSM continues to ignore it. When the MSM does run a story, it's usually about sensationalist crap like police raids or drug-dealing. You have people like Levant and Fox News that are bent on discrediting the movement anyway due to their ideological bias, so they try to get interviews with the least credible people they can find. When someone articulate actually says some insightful things and won't give them their soundbite, his piece was cut (even though the reporter promised, "this is your chance to tell the world why you're here"). I don't think there's a concerted effort to suppress with some back-room haggling or some crazy conspiracy-esque BS. I believe that the combination of executives not wanting to piss off sponsors, whilst trying to get quick 30 second segments or soundbites hurts the MSM's ability to actually broadcast the necessary lengthy discussion about the issue. They want to condense OWS into a single sentence they can run in their ticker. Well, the problems are far more complicated and entrenched than their typical format will allow. So it's not a conspiracy. It's a function of the way MSM operates that creates a blindspot for the true complexity of these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The occupiers are doing anything they can to avoid occupying a JOB You're being absurd. Many of the protesters have jobs. Scott Olsen, the guy who had his skull fractured by a teargas canister, was a war vet. A retired judge was shoved around by cops in NY the other night. Many of the supporters that are down there are teachers and members of trade unions. So your "get a job" line is beyond ridiculous. The majority of those who don't have jobs are probably currently students, who shouldn't have to divide their attention from their studies by working at the same time. They should be able to focus on getting their education so they can be as productive as possible when they leave school and enter the workforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Cybercoma, I agree with your last two posts. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) The majority of those who don't have jobs are probably currently students, who shouldn't have to divide their attention from their studies by working at the same time. They should be able to focus on getting their education so they can be as productive as possible when they leave school and enter the workforce. Should they be studying or "occupying"? 20 and 30 year olds are spoiled? Reality check. Twenty and thirty year olds just want an opportunity to make a living and support their families. Too bad the baby boomers are from a generation where jobs were just handed to them on a silver platter and they can't seem to understand why this new generation doesn't just quit being "lazy" and get a job. Newsflash. The job market is not what it was 30 years ago. Things cost more than they did 30 years ago. One thing is the same though. Wages. During the summer of 1979, when I graduated college and was waiting to start law school I parked cars and worked as a temporary typist. When I graduated law school, almost exactly 30 years ago, in May 1982, and was looking for work I didn't have such an easy time. After a clerkship fell through, and while developing other opportunities I: Worked as a Legal Services volunteer helping the poor; Worked at Caldors as a stock clerk for the Christmas 1982 shopping season; and Pending admission to the bar started work as a paralegal/messenger at a law firm for $50 per week, which morphed into a first job at $200 per week. From the years involved, you can see I was a "boomer". Jobs were not handed to me on any platter, silver or otherwise. Even my first decent job started at $30,000 per year, in 1986. I am still at that job 25 1/2 years later, now making a decent, though not spectacular, income. I don't see why these people are out there demonstrating rather than trying to get themselves into the employment world any way they can. Are the jobs beneath them so only illegal immigrants can fill them? I have no sympathy for people who whine rather than work. If the service jobs were filled by the "occupiers" the illegal immigrants would have to go home. The quality of service work would improve. The "occupiers" would get used to the workaday world. And, maybe many of them would do as well or better than I have. What's so bad about that? Edited November 22, 2011 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Worked as a Legal Services volunteer helping the poor; Worked at Caldors as a stock clerk for the Christmas 1982 shopping season; and Pending admission to the bar started work as a paralegal/messenger at a law firm for $50 per week, which morphed into a first job at $200 per week. Did you not just post this resume here last week or so ? Or am I dreaming this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Did you not just post this resume here last week or so ? Or am I dreaming this ? I did but the posts are different. So not a violation of House Rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I did but the posts are different. So not a violation of House Rules. No, I was just doubting my sanity again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Should they be studying or "occupying"? During the summer of 1979, when I graduated college and was waiting to start law school I parked cars and worked as a temporary typist. When I graduated law school, almost exactly 30 years ago, in May 1982, and was looking for work I didn't have such an easy time. After a clerkship fell through, and while developing other opportunities I: Worked as a Legal Services volunteer helping the poor; Worked at Caldors as a stock clerk for the Christmas 1982 shopping season; and Pending admission to the bar started work as a paralegal/messenger at a law firm for $50 per week, which morphed into a first job at $200 per week. From the years involved, you can see I was a "boomer". Jobs were not handed to me on any platter, silver or otherwise. Even my first decent job started at $30,000 per year, in 1986. I am still at that job 25 1/2 years later, now making a decent, though not spectacular, income. I don't see why these people are out there demonstrating rather than trying to get themselves into the employment world any way they can. Are the jobs beneath them so only illegal immigrants can fill them? I have no sympathy for people who whine rather than work. If the service jobs were filled by the "occupiers" the illegal immigrants would have to go home. The quality of service work would improve. The "occupiers" would get used to the workaday world. And, maybe many of them would do as well or better than I have. What's so bad about that? Well... its just a plattitude and it ignores most of the picture. Other than that its fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well... its just a plattitude and it ignores most of the picture. Other than that its fine. What's a platitude? That one should be working rather than yelling one head off and defacating on the ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 What's a platitude? That one should be working rather than yelling one head off and defacating on the ground? Yes. Everyone knows that people should work hard. But our economy runs inside a framework that has a given set of rules, and it rewards certain activity. And the rules and the activity it rewards have changed and people dont like it. This economy treats labor with contempt and rewards investment more than ever before, and it taxes labor more than investment as well. You can make your little speech when unemployment is at 4% or unemployment is at 8% or unemployment is at 15%. "Just go get jobs!!! Work harder!!!". But the difference between an economy where people have jobs, and one where people dont have jobs is not that suddenly everyone got lazy. Its usually that the macro economic conditions changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) when I graduated college When I graduated law school I don't see why these people are out there demonstrating rather than trying to get themselves into the employment world any way they can. Are the jobs beneath them so only illegal immigrants can fill them? When you graduated. Many of the protesters who aren't working are students. They haven't graduated yet. Do you understand now why they're not out there trying to get employment wherever they can? Even the ones who have graduated, they're facing unemployment of 10% in the United States. That means 1 out of every 10 people in the labour force cannot find a fulltime job even though they are actively looking, ready and willing to work. There quite simply are no jobs for 1/10 workers. Edited November 22, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) When you graduated. Many of the protesters who aren't working are students. They haven't graduated yet. Do you understand now why they're not out there trying to get employment wherever they can? No...why haven't they already been employed....even as students? What are they waiting for? ..and US labor stats do not mean they can't find full time work. Edited November 22, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 No...why haven't they already been employed....even as students? What are they waiting for? ..and US labor stats do not mean they can't find full time work. Come back when you understand the unemployment metric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Come back when you understand the unemployment metric. Come back when you understand the US Dept of Labor, from this side of the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) You have to be ready, willing and able to work fulltime to be counted as unemployed. Fulltime students are not able to work a fulltime job, so they are not counted as part of the labour force. Someone with a part-time job is not considered unemployed. They are part of the workforce since they are working, but also because they are able to work fulltime by leaving their PT job. Students are not expected to quit school to go work fulltime. Edited November 22, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 So you're right, it's not whether they can find fulltime work because it doesn't matter if it's fulltime or part-time. That just further proves my initial point: there's no f***ing jobs... not even PT ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 You have to be ready, willing and able to work fulltime to be counted as unemployed. Fulltime students are not able to work a fulltime job, so they are not counted as part of the labour force. This is false for US labor statistics. Fulltime employment is not required to be considered employed. Stick to Canada instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 So you're right, it's not whether they can find fulltime work because it doesn't matter if it's fulltime or part-time. That just further proves my initial point: there's no f***ing jobs... not even PT ones. That's what happens when you price yourself out of a job. Stupid is as stupid does. The USA will learn their entitlement lesson the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 That's what happens when you price yourself out of a job. Stupid is as stupid does. More like lazy is as lazy does. I was on the payroll and paying taxes at age 16, and worked cleaning toilets, dumping trash cans, and washing ash trays before that for cash. All while going to school. No pity for these lazy losers. The USA will learn their entitlement lesson the hard way. That's how the USA learns most things...more people still dying to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 That's how the USA learns most things...more people still dying to get there. We know, we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 bush_cheney2004 for president in 2012. He's going to tour the US telling the unemployed, "suck it up you lazy losers!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 This is false for US labor statistics. Fulltime employment is not required to be considered employed. Stick to Canada instead. What part of students are not part of the labour force is too hard for you to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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