most canadians back palestinian state - why doesn't harper?

[bud]

Is it better for uninvolved, ignorant, and politicized third-parties like yourself to pretend to be able to dictate to us what we should or should not do?

is this what hitler said to the rest of the world when he was ethnically cleansing jews from germany?

Expulsion is the only real answer. At a minimum, mass revocation of voting privileges for Arabs/Muslims must be done in Israel.

stfu fascist.

Edited September 21, 2011 by bud

[Bob]

Again, Jews in Germany were educated, well-to-do, and productive members of society. You cannot compare the role of Jews in Germany with "Palestinians" in Israel and the territories. I already said, had we been half as murderous and violent as the "Palestinians", we would certainly have deserved expulsion. I also don't wish any harm to "Palestinians", I simply have the basic needs of my own people in mind. Namely, the ability to live in peace and security and not worry about Islamists murdering our children on the way to school or in a nightclub.

[g_bambino]

is this what hitler said to the rest of the world when he was ethnically cleansing jews from germany?

stfu fascist.

Godwin's Law and the fascist fallacy all in one short post! Well done for conciseness, anyway.

(Though, Bob's statement about revokation of rights from people identified as belonging to a certain ethnic/relgious group was quite stupid.)

[+]

Edited September 21, 2011 by g_bambino

[bush_cheney2004]

A much more interesting question for the forum participants to ponder is, "What is the breaking point for supporting the removal of most or an entire population or identifiable group from your vicinity"? ...

Speaking too much French in British colonies (Acadians). Sortez!

[Rick]

is this what hitler said to the rest of the world when he was ethnically cleansing jews from germany?

stfu fascist.

Here here...

Well said bud!

Bob and Adolph would have had much in common.

If only Adolph were still alive and posting on here...it'd be a gas to watch them burn it up.

[jacee]

Hamas has agreed to the two state solution.

Operation Cast Lead was 'successful' in this.

Recriminations aside,

Observer status as a state

during negotiation of borders.

And the name calling should stop, Bob, Wild Bill.

Frankly, it's absurd for Canadians to incite hatred among people of other nations.

Raises a question though,

Do Jews in Canada claim a religious exemption from the hate laws (2-14 year sentences) for persecuting "Arabs/Muslims/Palestinans?

Bob, on 21 September 2011 - 01:07 PM, said: Expulsion is the only real answer. At a minimum, mass revocation of voting privilege for Arabs/Muslims must be done in Israel.

Edited September 22, 2011 by jacee

[Wild Bill]

And the name calling should stop, Bob, Wild Bill.

Frankly, it's absurd for Canadians to incite hatred among people of other nations.

Name calling? What on earth are you talking about?

Have I said anything that isn't true? I have said that Hamas and fanatic Arab groups love to fire rockets into civilian areas of Israel. They have sent suicide bombers to blow up innocents. They TARGET innocents! Is this not true?

Is targeting innocents NOT the act of a rabid animal?

Perhaps I simply have a higher regard for the lives of innocents, Jewish AND Palestinian than YOU seem to express! You blithely blow the lives of women and children off in almost everything you post about Israel!

This is why I tend to keep you on 'ignore'. I get so appalled at your seeming definition of morality that I really don't care to participate with you.

[wyly]

Godwin's Law and the fascist fallacy all in one short post! Well done for conciseness, anyway.

(Though, Bob's statement about revokation of rights from people identified as belonging to a certain ethnic/relgious group was quite stupid.)

[+]

what's really dumb is people believing godwins law has any relevance, f**k godwin who the f is he that he names a law after himself....the irony here is you citing godwins law fits the godwin's law scenario...

here's another law I'll call it wyly's law "if it walks like duck, quacks like duck, looks like a duck, then it's a fascist" of course it's 100% true 100% of the time because I named it wyly's Law....

bud had it right, bob's view perfectly reflects Nazis mindset...anyone backing bob would be in the same basket...

[scribblet]

Gosh, look at this

Well, we know they don't want Jews in their little state, but now a Palestinian state that won't recognize it's own people ! So you thought that over 60 years of Arabs using the "refugees" as political pawns would end if there was a Palestinian Arab state? I wonder why - hmmm maybe because these "refugees" are just pawns in their war against Israel.. therefore, giving them citizenship takes away their status as pawns and weapons.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/Sep-15/148791-interview-refugees-will-not-be-citizens-of-new-state.ashx#axzz1YgU1GImQ

The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”

Abdullah said that the new Palestinian state would “absolutely not” be issuing Palestinian passports to refugees.

Neither this definitional status nor U.N. statehood, Abdullah says, would affect the eventual return of refugees to Palestine. “How the issue of the right of return will be solved I don’t know, it’s too early [to say], but it is a sacred right that has to be dealt with and solved [with] the acceptance of all.” He says statehood “will never affect the right of return for Palestinian refugees.”

cont..

[guyser]

Is it better for uninvolved, ignorant, and politicized third-parties like yourself to pretend to be able to dictate to us what we should or should not do?

Why not, he is Canadian and has a say what 'us' do.

Who are you to force us to live with a population that largely supports mass murder and terrorism?

Why do you hate Americans? They dont support that.

[g_bambino]

what's really dumb is people believing godwins law has any relevance, f**k godwin who the f is he that he names a law after himself....the irony here is you citing godwins law fits the godwin's law scenario...

Better luck next time.

[wyly]

Gosh, look at this

Well, we know they don't want Jews in their little state, but now a Palestinian state that won't recognize it's own people ! So you thought that over 60 years of Arabs using the "refugees" as political pawns would end if there was a Palestinian Arab state? I wonder why - hmmm maybe because these "refugees" are just pawns in their war against Israel.. therefore, giving them citizenship takes away their status as pawns and weapons.

...is a canadian an american? is an austrian a german, is a kiwi an aussie? is a belgian french? is a mexican spanish? speaking common language and being of the same ethnic background or religion does not make one the same nationality...if for some reason canadians were physically forced by hostile forces to take refuge in the US we would all demand the right to return to our homes, being an american is not an option as it prevents us from doing so...giving citizenship to refuges legitimizes/finalizes israeli ethnic cleansing policies...and no other nation can be forced to grant citizenship to refuges doing so gives license to other regimes that ethnic cleansing is acceptable...

we can assume that you're in bob's corner on ethnic cleansing...

Edited September 22, 2011 by wyly

[wyly]

Better luck next time.

as expected it sailed right over your head...

[bush_cheney2004]

....Why do you hate Americans? They dont support that.

Yes they did/do. See history of Japanese internment camps (same as in Canada)....and 'Gitmo today. Member Bob is ultimately correct in that Isarel's sovereign decisions (and fate) are up to Israel.

[bud]

Perhaps I simply have a higher regard for the lives of innocents, Jewish AND Palestinian than YOU seem to express! You blithely blow the lives of women and children off in almost everything you post about Israel!

This is why I tend to keep you on 'ignore'. I get so appalled at your seeming definition of morality that I really don't care to participate with you.

since september 29th, 2000:

124 israeli children have been killed by palestinians

and

1,463 palestinian children have been killed by israelis

link

talk to me about lives of innocents.

[guyser]

Yes they did/do.

Americans largely support mass murder and terrorism?

Guess I have been asleep.

[Wild Bill]

since september 29th, 2000:

124 israeli children have been killed by palestinians

and

1,463 palestinian children have been killed by israelis

link

talk to me about lives of innocents.

I checked out your link. It seems at first glance to be a non-partisan organization that champions children on both sides of the conflict. Then I dug deeper:

"We ask you to add your voice to the call for an end to the killing of children, for a just peace in the region, for a fair resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You might wish to call for an end to Israel’s illegal occupation since 1967 of land acquired by force. Or you might invoke international law, U.N. ­resolutions or the Geneva Conventions. At the very least you might wish to support the deployment of international observers in the ­region. We are confident that, in your own way, you will want to help save these children whom the world appears to have forsaken."

Now it seems VERY partisan to me! The problems are defined as all faults of Israel. These people have a clear bias, making their data suspect. At the very least, they could have mentioned that the territories were occupied for security reasons, after the Arab states used them as a staging ground to start a war intending to wipe Israel off the face of the map! Why does nobody on your side of the argument ever even MENTION this fact? It's hardly trivial, you know!

Even if we accept them at their word, however, it only makes sense to factor in the use of civilians as human shields and other atrocities. Should Israel allow a rocket launcher site to operate with impunity, because Hamas has put it inside a school? To me, for Hamas to even do such a thing proves my point about rabid dogs. To use children in such a way is a sign of a total lack of humanity.

[fellowtraveller]

Is targeting innocents NOT the act of a rabid animal?

No, it part of a deliberate camapign to avoid anything remotely like peace and stability in the region, a calculated method of keeping the shit stirred.

Every time they get anywhere near a negotiated settlement, bust out the rockets, inflame the orthodox and hardcore minority in Israel, and start over.

Hamas has no interest in peace in the region, or more accurately their Iranian masters have no interest. They have no interest, but they do have money and human pawns. And hatred for Jews, plenty of that too.

[Guest American Woman]

since september 29th, 2000:

124 israeli children have been killed by palestinians

and

1,463 palestinian children have been killed by israelis

link

talk to me about lives of innocents.

One only has to scroll down as far as the second name on your link of Palestinian children killed by Israel to find Muhammad Ashraf Abed-Rabo Ghaban, 17, of Beit Lahiya, Gaza, who was "killed by an IDF shell while trying to bomb the Gaza perimeter fence." He was with a group of armed men, who were trying to lay an explosive charge next to the perimeter fence.

Scrolling down past a couple more names, there's Jihad Ata Sulaiman al-Daghmeh, 17, of Abasan al-Jadida, near Khan Yunis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

Scrolling down past the next three names, we find Hamdi Adel Ali abu-Hamad, 16, of Abassan, near Khan Younis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

And next is Nader Adel Abdul-Karim abu-Daqqa, 17, of Abassan, near Khan Younis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

Next is Muhammad Amin Muhammad Shahawan, 17, of Khan Yunis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

Do you see where I'm going with this regarding your reference to "lives of innocents?"

[Guest Derek L]

I checked out your link. It seems at first glance to be a non-partisan organization that champions children on both sides of the conflict. Then I dug deeper:

"We ask you to add your voice to the call for an end to the killing of children, for a just peace in the region, for a fair resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You might wish to call for an end to Israel’s illegal occupation since 1967 of land acquired by force. Or you might invoke international law, U.N. ­resolutions or the Geneva Conventions. At the very least you might wish to support the deployment of international observers in the ­region. We are confident that, in your own way, you will want to help save these children whom the world appears to have forsaken."

Now it seems VERY partisan to me! The problems are defined as all faults of Israel. These people have a clear bias, making their data suspect. At the very least, they could have mentioned that the territories were occupied for security reasons, after the Arab states used them as a staging ground to start a war intending to wipe Israel off the face of the map! Why does nobody on your side of the argument ever even MENTION this fact? It's hardly trivial, you know!

Even if we accept them at their word, however, it only makes sense to factor in the use of civilians as human shields and other atrocities. Should Israel allow a rocket launcher site to operate with impunity, because Hamas has put it inside a school? To me, for Hamas to even do such a thing proves my point about rabid dogs. To use children in such a way is a sign of a total lack of humanity.

Perhaps those that view a Palestinian state as wrong need to rethink our stance………..Maybe it would be better for Israel if Palestine was in fact a sovereign country…….the defacto heads of said country would than be responsible for rocket/mortar attacks on Israeli settlements, and a measured response by Israel would be justified as a reaction to an act of war…….

The Israelis had no problem dealing with the other Arab states during a time of war, I’ve seen nothing to suggest this would change…….

I’ll change my opposition to a Palestinian state…….give them want they want, and in turn, treat them and expect them to act as a “grown-up” nation state…….If rockets were launched from Canada, into the United States, killing civilians, would it be wrong in expecting the United States to respond?

[Black Dog]

No, it part of a deliberate camapign to avoid anything remotely like peace and stability in the region, a calculated method of keeping the shit stirred.

Every time they get anywhere near a negotiated settlement, bust out the rockets, inflame the orthodox and hardcore minority in Israel, and start over.

Hamas has no interest in peace in the region, or more accurately their Iranian masters have no interest. They have no interest, but they do have money and human pawns. And hatred for Jews, plenty of that too.

Frankly I've seen little to suggest Israel is interested in any kind of accord either.

If its leaders are anything like its defenders on this board, the status quo is just fine.

[Guest Derek L]

Frankly I've seen little to suggest Israel is interested in any kind of accord either.

If its leaders are anything like its defenders on this board, the status quo is just fine.

If Israel changed course, and welcomed the idea of a Palestinian state, respected it’s boarders, traded with it etc and the rocket attacks continued unprovoked, would you than support Israel’s right to defend itself?

[wyly]

Frankly I've seen little to suggest Israel is interested in any kind of accord either.

If its leaders are anything like its defenders on this board, the status quo is just fine.

and that's not a surprise, it allows them to steal whatever land they want and steal as much water as they want...there is no upside for israel to negotiate...and the generous offers israel makes wouldn't be acceptable to anyone...they deliberately encourage palestinian unrest to justify the oppression and theft/ethnic cleansing, continued unrest plays right into zionist schemes...

[wyly]

If Israel changed course, and welcomed the idea of a Palestinian state, respected it’s boarders, traded with it etc and the rocket attacks continued unprovoked, would you than support Israel’s right to defend itself?

if canada was occupied for 60 years by americans who stole our homes business, farms, resources, drove hundreds of thousands of canadians into exile, restricted our travel in our own country. I and many other canadians would be launching rocket attacks as well...

[Guest Derek L]

if canada was occupied for 60 years by americans who stole our homes business, farms, resources, drove hundreds of thousands of canadians into exile, restricted our travel in our own country. I and many other canadians would be launching rocket attacks as well...

That’s not the question though…….if Israel gave them what they wanted, left them alone and respected their boarders etc, and the attacks continued, would the Israelis be justified in responding?