most canadians back palestinian state - why doesn't harper?

[bud]

the israeli lobby continues to have a firm grip over canada's policies towards israel/palestinian territories.

while most canadians support the establishment of a palestinian state, harper says otherwise.

In Canada, the numbers were 46 per cent in favour, 25 per cent opposed.

you will see similar numbers in the united states:

Among American respondents to the survey, 45 per cent backed recognition while 36 per cent were opposed.

of course, aipac's firm control over majority of u.s. politicians is no secret.

link

we're approaching a historic moment and unfortunately, the harper government has failed in representing canadians and has decided to be the voice of the israeli lobby instead of the canadian people.

Edited September 22, 2011 by bud

[g_bambino]

In Canada, the numbers were 46 per cent in favour, 25 per cent opposed.

Popular doesn't equal right or smart.

[guyser]

.

while most canadians support the establishment of a palestinian state,

What is this 'most' you speak of?

Most cant find Labrador on a map let alone a Palestinian state.

75% of all statistics are made up ya know.

(including this one)

[guyser]

Popular doesn't equal right or smart.

And thus explains Paris Hilton .

(this isnt a serious thread is it? )

Edited September 20, 2011 by guyser

[Guest American Woman]

What is this 'most' you speak of?

Most cant find Labrador on a map let alone a Palestinian state.

75% of all statistics are made up ya know.

(including this one)

Hahaha.

I love it.

----------------------------

Edited to ask a serious question: Has Harper ever said that he doesn't support the establishment of a Palestinian state? Because I'm thinking he hasn't ...........

Edited September 20, 2011 by American Woman

[Guest Derek L]

46% + 25% = 71%.........what about the other 29%? That's a good chunk that doesn't know or think we should abstain.........

I'd wait until that 29% number firms up, either way prior to making a choice.

My prediction……..another Arab/Israeli war, with no clear nation-state supporters for either side (barring a GOP win next year), and in turn, no one pulling back on either sides leashes……..the result, a lot of dead Arabs and maybe a limited nuclear strike if things go against the Israelis initially.

Perhaps the Israelis finally using the Samson option, might in the end, finally create a lasting Middle East "peace"….

Both chilling, but yet somewhat justified lines of thinking in my view.....

"Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow — it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens? For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away--unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans--have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?"

"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under"

[bud]

What is this 'most' you speak of?

In Canada, the numbers were 46 per cent in favour, 25 per cent opposed.

that's the 'most' i speak of.

one has to admire the "nerve", for lack of a better word, of the posters above and the ones to come who have decided that "polls" in general (or at the very least this one in particular) are invalid, unrepresentative, manipulated, undemocratic and/or (my personal favourite which i'm sure will be coming soon) "left wing propaganda".

i'm sure the subject matter and result have absolutely nothing to do with that impartial, dispassionate assessment.

[Guest American Woman]

I repeat: Has Harper ever said that he doesn't support the establishment of a Palestinian state? Because I'm thinking he hasn't ...........

Can you answer the question, bud? - along with a source for verification..........

[bud]

46% + 25% = 71%.........what about the other 29%? That's a good chunk that doesn't know or think we should abstain.........

I'd wait until that 29% number firms up, either way prior to making a choice.

canada's results are broadly inline with the overall result:

The survey of 20,446 people, conducted by GlobeScan for BBC World Service, found that across the countries surveyed, 49 per cent of respondents supported recognition of a Palestinian state, while 21 per cent said their government should oppose it.

Nineteen per cent said they don't know and 11 per cent answered "depends" or that their government should abstain from giving an opinion.

[bud]

I repeat: Has Harper ever said that he doesn't support the establishment of a Palestinian state? Because I'm thinking he hasn't ...........

Can you answer the question, bud? - along with a source for verification..........

Harper urges Palestinians to give up UN recognition bid

Canada has already indicated it will oppose this move.

link

it's nice to see that most americans back a palestinian state.

[Guest American Woman]

Harper urges Palestinians to give up UN recognition bid

Canada has already indicated it will oppose this move.

link

That's NOT saying he doesn't support the establishment of a Palestinian state. That's saying he doesn't support recognition of the state at this time - the way things currently stand. QUITE DIFFERENT from "Harper doesn't support the establishment of a Palestinian state." Of course he supports the establishment of a Palestinian state - what do you think the negotiations are all about??

[g_bambino]

one has to admire the "nerve", for lack of a better word, of the posters above and the ones to come who have decided that "polls" in general (or at the very least this one in particular) are invalid, unrepresentative, manipulated, undemocratic...

Polls are now the embodiment of democracy? Give me a break. Polls are given far too much importance. The answers can be affected by the question, and the respondents are rarely experts on the subject of the poll. Collecting the results of various polls over time might tell us something about general feelings on a particular matter; but, the result of an individual poll isn't all that informative. They're often just played up by the media in order to make a story more controversial.

Regardless, the point remains: just because an idea is popular doesn't mean it's inttelligent.

[guyser]

Question from BBC;

Sir, do you feel that palestinians ,should they be in a state of incontinence, supply their own or what?

Nineteen per cent said they don't know and 11 per cent answered "depends"

If 46% answered that they should have a state, I can only surmise that if they asked if the Cajuns should have their own state, the answer would be the same.

IOW,they have no idea what they are responding too, well, at least 72.5% of them anyhow.

Edited September 20, 2011 by guyser

[Topaz]

Harper says he will only after peace talks with ISRAEL. So how long will it be before there is peace in this area? So you may as well say he REALLY doesn't. http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/16/harper-gives-thumbs-down-to-palestinian-state

[Guest Derek L]

A better poll question to ask Canadians: If possible, would you be in favour of paying no taxes and the government providing you with a gold house and a rocket car, or a low emissions unicorn, of your choice…..

[bud]

That's NOT saying he doesn't support the establishment of a Palestinian state. That's saying he doesn't support recognition of the state at this time - the way things currently stand.

he doesn't say he doesn't support the establishment 'at this time'.

regardless, when is a good time? negotiations with israel have gotten nowhere. especially with the current extremist government that runs israel. why can't negotiations happen after the bid? why can't the palestinians have a voice just like other people?

the status quo has done nothing but to stall. of course israel is okay with that because it allows them to continue to annex more palestinian land.

back to the original topic; the harper government has gone against what the canadian people want. instead, he is repeating what a foreign government wants him to.

[Guest Derek L]

he doesn't say he doesn't support the establishment 'at this time'.

regardless, when is a good time? negotiations with israel have gotten nowhere. especially with the current extremist government that runs israel. why can't negotiations happen after the bid? why can't the palestinians have a voice just like other people?

the status quo has done nothing but to stall. of course israel is okay with that because it allows them to continue to annex more palestinian land.

back to the original topic; the harper government has gone against what the canadian people want. instead, he is repeating what a foreign government wants him to.

Do you think, by and large, Canadians really care?

[bud]

Question from BBC;

Sir, do you feel that palestinians ,should they be in a state of incontinence, supply their own or what?

what are you babbling about?

this is the question asked:

As you may know, the Palestinian Authority is planning to request that the UN General Assembly recognize the Palestinian Territories as a state and as a member of the UN. Do you think [RESPONDENT’S COUNTRY] should vote for or against this request?

the question is so simple to understand that even shady or you would be able to respond to it without getting too confused.

[g_bambino]

the question is so simple to understand...

But the matter it's asking about most definitely is not.

[bud]

Do you think, by and large, Canadians really care?

i don't know. maybe they should do a poll on it.

regardless, i care that my government does not speak for us canadians and instead, they speak for a foreign country.

[bud]

But the matter it's asking about most definitely is not.

the people are not being asked about the details of negotiations. they are being asked whether they believe the palestinians should be backed in their bid for a statehood.

do you think the palestinians should be backed for a statehood?

[wyly]

back to the original topic; the harper government has gone against what the canadian people want. instead, he is repeating what a foreign government wants him to.

two points to make here...

1st-it's the conservative election vote getting machine at work, go to every identifiable minority group and tell them everything they want to hear...in this case harper figures he'll capture the jewish vote and the rest of us who don't agree don't care enough to change our vote anyways as we're (60% of canadians)already likey voting against him...

2nd he's an evangelicall christian fundy/nutbar, his church believes in the Rapture

For evangelical Christians, Israel is the Holy Land, the site of God's mighty deeds, and in a way, they think the Promised Land belongs to them as much as it does to Jewish Israelis. Furthermore, evangelicals believe that the Holy Land will be ground zero for events surrounding the second coming of Jesus Christ. Such evangelicals read the Bible as though it were a huge jigsaw puzzle of prophecies, with Israel at the center. Thus, evangelicals believe that human history is following a predetermined divine script, and they, along with Israel, are simply playing their assigned roles.

[guyser]

what are you babbling about?

Oh just about the silliness of some dumb poll about palestine and how not many people responding would have any idea what they are agreeing too. Kind of like "wheres Labrador?"

not to mention you have a hate fest for Israel

Let me guess tho....countries surveyed were...

Iran

Iraq

Palestine

KKK Georgia division

Egypt

Hmm...I wonder if they polled in Jerusalem?

[g_bambino]

the people are not being asked about the details of negotiations. they are being asked whether they believe the palestinians should be backed in their bid for a statehood.

And you're baffled about why the Prime Minister's public views don't align with the results of a poll that asks a simple question to a very likely less informed group of people about a very complex subject.

[+]

Edited September 20, 2011 by g_bambino

[bud]

Oh just about the silliness of some dumb poll about palestine and how not many people responding would have any idea what they are agreeing too. Kind of like "wheres Labrador?"

not to mention you have a hate fest for Israel

Let me guess tho....countries surveyed were...

Iran

Iraq

Palestine

KKK Georgia division

Egypt

Hmm...I wonder if they polled in Jerusalem?

perhaps you should take a moment and read what you are responding to instead of wasting your time and our time with comments you otherwise wouldn't make if you had read the post.