most canadians back palestinian state - why doesn't harper?

[fellowtraveller]

That’s not the question though…….if Israel gave them what they wanted, left them alone and respected their boarders etc, and the attacks continued, would the Israelis be justified in responding?

The is no reasoning with The Bigot, he would never acknowledge who was the aggressor in all the wars since the formation of Israel, nor would he acknowledge the nature of Hamas, Hezbollah and who is actually pulling their strings and why.

Kill the Jews.

All of them.

[Guest Derek L]

The is no reasoning with The Bigot, he would never acknowledge who was the aggressor in all the wars since the formation of Israel, nor would he acknowledge the nature of Hamas, Hezbollah and who is actually pulling their strings and why.

Kill the Jews.

All of them.

I’m not even suggesting that one defines who’s been right or wrong in the past……..Clean slate…..give them their country, leave them alone and see how they behave………If the attacks continue, by rights, the Israelis should be aloud to blockade and flatten them as a response.

[wyly]

That’s not the question though…….if Israel gave them what they wanted, left them alone and respected their boarders etc, and the attacks continued, would the Israelis be justified in responding?

of course but they've never even been offered that....

now back to my point...would you as a canadian tolerate 60yrs of occupation? would you tolerate the UN deciding our immigration policy then partitioning our country without our consent...would you tolerate being a prisoner in your own country...would you tolerate another country dictating your curfews...what roads you can travel on...diverting our resources(water in this case) for their use and restricting our access to it... confiscating our land for their own colonies....telling you that your family members and countrymen that have been exiled have no right to return?...and the list of grievances goes on and on...

stand up as a patriotic Canadian and tell us all that would be ok if all of that had be done to canada and you would find that acceptable...

[wyly]

The is no reasoning with The Bigot, he would never acknowledge who was the aggressor in all the wars since the formation of Israel, nor would he acknowledge the nature of Hamas, Hezbollah and who is actually pulling their strings and why.

Kill the Jews.

All of them.

try actually read a history book idiot...

[Guest Derek L]

of course but they've never even been offered that....

now back to my point...would you as a canadian tolerate 60yrs of occupation? would you tolerate the UN deciding our immigration policy then partitioning our country without our consent...would you tolerate being a prisoner in your own country...would you tolerate another country dictating your curfews...what roads you can travel on...diverting our resources(water in this case) for their use and restricting our access to it... confiscating our land for their own colonies....telling you that your family members and countrymen that have been exiled have no right to return?...and the list of grievances goes on and on...

stand up as a patriotic Canadian and tell us all that would be ok if all of that had be done to canada and you would find that acceptable...

Of course not…….that being said, if it’s been 60 years, and things have still not changed, I think I might have to change tactics……..After probably the first generation…………Ghandi was faced with a similar plight, and achieved (most of) his goals without blowing up British buses and coffee shops……..

[wyly]

Of course not…….that being said, if it’s been 60 years, and things have still not changed, I think I might have to change tactics……..After probably the first generation…………Ghandi was faced with a similar plight, and achieved (most of) his goals without blowing up British buses and coffee shops……..

it worked for the israeli terrorists blowing up hotels and similar targets to establish israel, several confirmed terrorists guilty of murder and ethnic cleansing became PMs and Presidents of israel...

the palestinians were quite restrained until the 60's and 70's and have periods since then were they were also calm but that hasn't gained them anything...how long do you expect them to wait 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 years before they have a country? generations of palestinians have grown up knowing nothing but stateless oppression...and anything offered during their calm periods fall far short of what any people on this planet would accept...

talk of ghandi tactics may give everyone a warm and fuzzy feeling but this situation is different...the british did not take over india as a new homeland disposessing the locals they only wanted to exploit the locals...israel has no intention of leaving they want the land and the resources, ghandi tactics will have no effect on israel...

[Guest Derek L]

it worked for the israeli terrorists blowing up hotels and similar targets to establish israel, several confirmed terrorists guilty of murder and ethnic cleansing became PMs and Presidents of israel...

the palestinians were quite restrained until the 60's and 70's and have periods since then were they were also calm but that hasn't gained them anything...how long do you expect them to wait 10, 20, 40, 60, 80 years before they have a country? generations of palestinians have grown up knowing nothing but stateless oppression...and anything offered during their calm periods fall far short of what any people on this planet would accept...

talk of ghandi tactics may give everyone a warm and fuzzy feeling but this situation is different...the british did not take over india as a new homeland disposessing the locals they only wanted to exploit the locals...israel has no intention of leaving they want the land and the resources, ghandi tactics will have no effect on israel...

Have Ghandi’s tactics been truly tried by the Palestinians as of late? Their current tract doesn’t seem to be working………maybe a dose of Ghandi with a dash of Dr. Martin Luther King might be whats needed……

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

[Wild Bill]

and that's not a surprise, it allows them to steal whatever land they want and steal as much water as they want...there is no upside for israel to negotiate...and the generous offers israel makes wouldn't be acceptable to anyone...they deliberately encourage palestinian unrest to justify the oppression and theft/ethnic cleansing, continued unrest plays right into zionist schemes...

Stealing water? I thought the bulk of Israel's water came from massive desalinization plants, which Israel invented, designed and built themselves!

How on earth is this stealing from the Palestinians, who seem to just sit on their asses and sharpen their knives...

BTW, Derek's idea of Israel recognizing a Palestinian state has merit! It's guaranteed that such a state would not be able to resist more terrorist attacks on Israel for long. It would indeed give Israel a clear and legitimate target!

[scribblet]

--

we can assume that you're in bob's corner on ethnic cleansing...

You know what happened to assume doncha !!!

get real !

Edited September 22, 2011 by scribblet

[Bob]

One only has to scroll down as far as the second name on your link of Palestinian children killed by Israel to find Muhammad Ashraf Abed-Rabo Ghaban, 17, of Beit Lahiya, Gaza, who was "killed by an IDF shell while trying to bomb the Gaza perimeter fence." He was with a group of armed men, who were trying to lay an explosive charge next to the perimeter fence.

Scrolling down past a couple more names, there's Jihad Ata Sulaiman al-Daghmeh, 17, of Abasan al-Jadida, near Khan Yunis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

Scrolling down past the next three names, we find Hamdi Adel Ali abu-Hamad, 16, of Abassan, near Khan Younis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

And next is Nader Adel Abdul-Karim abu-Daqqa, 17, of Abassan, near Khan Younis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

Next is Muhammad Amin Muhammad Shahawan, 17, of Khan Yunis, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire during an armed clash.

Do you see where I'm going with this regarding your reference to "lives of innocents?"

Children are often used in the infrastructure of "Palestinian" terror. American soldiers are seeing the same thing in Afghanistan and Kuwait, fighting youth who are barely teenagers. Remember, when a 15-year-old points a gun at you and begins to fire, it is a war crime to defend yourself and your fellow soldiers and citizens.

[wyly]

You know what happened to assume doncha !!!

get real !

the silence from the anti-palestinian crowd on bobs fascist stance speaks volumes as to their beliefs...

[wyly]

Stealing water? I thought the bulk of Israel's water came from massive desalinization plants, which Israel invented, designed and built themselves!

How on earth is this stealing from the Palestinians, who seem to just sit on their asses and sharpen their knives...

BTW, Derek's idea of Israel recognizing a Palestinian state has merit! It's guaranteed that such a state would not be able to resist more terrorist attacks on Israel for long. It would indeed give Israel a clear and legitimate target!

oh my you are uninformed aren't you...do the web search and find the truth yourself, you certainly have no intention of believing anyone else...

I'll make note your stance on the issue is due to being very uninformed...if you don't look you can't find the entire story..

[Bob]

if canada was occupied for 60 years by americans who stole our homes business, farms, resources, drove hundreds of thousands of canadians into exile, restricted our travel in our own country. I and many other canadians would be launching rocket attacks as well...

But you wouldn't resist if it was occupied by the British or the Ottomans, right? The "Palestinians", who never had any sovereignty or control over this land, and indeed never even existed as a nation until they manufactured this false identity in the late sixties, were completely docile until the Jewish "illegal immigration" of the late 19th century. Then they got worked into a frenzy of pogroms and mass murder, killing us and trashing our homes, religious sites, and businesses.

So this imaginary hypothetical of yours doesn't fly, because the "Palestinians" are only motivated to "resist" a specific group of people from "their land".

[wyly]

Have Ghandi’s tactics been truly tried by the Palestinians as of late? Their current tract doesn’t seem to be working………maybe a dose of Ghandi with a dash of Dr. Martin Luther King might be whats needed……

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

there have been many truces and never has there been any sincere effort from israel to end it's occupation...

holding the palestinian authority responsible for every break in the peace is unrealistic as they cannot control every rogue political /religious group...israel itself has no control over it's rogue political/religious groups that have made unprovoked attacks on palestinians and their property...the process of negoitiation must go on inspite of agitation from both sides.....

[scribblet]

the silence from the anti-palestinian crowd on bobs fascist stance speaks volumes as to their beliefs...

I haven't read all of Bob's posts and am not going back to read it all...

Whether or not I respond to Bob, says nothing at all about my beliefs, you are making assumptions based on your own preconceived biases. Your posts 'speak volumes' about your own bigotry.

[bud]

One only has to scroll down as far as the second name on your link of Palestinian children killed by Israel to find Muhammad Ashraf Abed-Rabo Ghaban, 17, of Beit Lahiya, Gaza, who was "killed by an IDF shell while trying to bomb the Gaza perimeter fence." He was with a group of armed men, who were trying to lay an explosive charge next to the perimeter fence.

here is a list of children killed a month ago:

August 2011

16 August 2011

Saed Abdul-Rahim Mahmoud al-Majdalawi, 17, of Nusseirat refugee camp, Gaza, killed by IDF gunfire to his head and chest near the Gaza perimeter fence northeast of Dier al-Balah, Gaza. Paramedics were prevented from reaching the mentally-disabled and speech-imparied youth for more than an hour.

18 August 2011

Malek Khaled Hamad Shaat, 2, of Rafah refugee camp, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile while at home in Block J of the camp. He was killed during the targeted killing of his father, a member of the Popular Resistance Committees' Nasser Saladin Brigades.

19 August 2011

Islam Motaz Basem Quraiqe, 1, of Shujaiya, east of Gaza City, Gaza, killed, along with his uncle and father, by an IDF drone while riding on a motor cycle during the targeted killing of his father, a leader in Islamic Jihad's al-Quds Brigades.

29 August 2011

Haitham Ahmad Mustafa Maruf, 13, of Beit Lahiya, Gaza, died in Shifa Hospital, Gaza, of wounds sustained from an IDF drone attack while working on his family farm on August 21.

go ahead. give your excuses for killing children.

[Guest American Woman]

go ahead. give your excuses for killing children.

You won't/can't address the issue I raised - so instead attempt to put me on the defensive over some asinine insinuation??? Sorry, but I'm not playing that game.

So. Getting back to the point I made - which you completely ignored.

More than half of the first names I encountered on the list you linked to regarding "The number of Palestinian children who have been killed" - "the lives of innocents," to use your words - were engaged in armed combat at the time of their deaths.

Makes me wonder how many more of the "number of deaths of Palestinian children" on your site were also engaged in armed combat at the time they were killed - and how many among the number of the Israeli children killed were engaged in armed combat at the time they were killed........

And just to settle my curiosity, if a gun were pointed at you/your loved one, aiming to kill you, would you ask the person holding the gun for ID so you could verify that they were at least 18 years old before defending yourself? Or would you think you had a right to defend yourself regardless?

Edited September 22, 2011 by American Woman

[Wild Bill]

And just to settle my curiosity, if a gun were pointed at you/your loved one, aiming to kill you, would you ask the person holding the gun for ID so you could verify that they were at least 18 years old before defending yourself? Or would you think you had a right to defend yourself regardless?

AW, I'm beginning to believe that some of these posters actually would! And would be utterly shocked to find themselves or one of their family shot!

They remind me of the typical teacher, who when a victim comes to them for protection from a bully, tells the poor kid that they should try to be the bully's friend! Or worse, tells them that they are embarrassing the bully by being so smart in class and if they had more respect for the bully's feelings the bully wouldn't be so violent.

[wyly]

I haven't read all of Bob's posts and am not going back to read it all...

Whether or not I respond to Bob, says nothing at all about my beliefs, you are making assumptions based on your own preconceived biases. Your posts 'speak volumes' about your own bigotry.

"haven't read all of bob's posts"... ya that's right close your eyes and claim plausible deniability ... ya you're the same kind of lowlife, your silence confirms your beliefs...at least bob has got the balls to openly admit what he is...

go pick out out my supposed bigoted posts fascism lover...and tell that to my mixed race kids and my friends of every colour, ethnicity and religion and they can all have a laugh too :lol:...

Edited September 22, 2011 by wyly

[bush_cheney2004]

....go pick out out my supposed bigoted posts fascism lover...and tell that to my mixed race kids and my friends of every colour, ethnicity and religion and they can all have a laugh too :lol:...

Sounds bigoted to me....what "colours" would they be?

[Guest American Woman]

AW, I'm beginning to believe that some of these posters actually would! And would be utterly shocked to find themselves or one of their family shot!

I doubt it. Talk is cheap. I think they'd be right there shooting back. If not, then surely they'd be in the running for the Darwin Award. But I've found that often times it's the holier-than-thou people who are the first to act in ways that they criticize others for when it involves them. Of course it's always 'different' then.

[Black Dog]

Of course not…….that being said, if it’s been 60 years, and things have still not changed, I think I might have to change tactics……..After probably the first generation…………Ghandi was faced with a similar plight, and achieved (most of) his goals without blowing up British buses and coffee shops……..

You realize the status quo suits Hamas et al just fine as well. All the religious nutbars in that neck of the woods are basically in cahoots, each feeding the other.

[bud]

More than half of the first names I encountered on the list you linked to regarding "The number of Palestinian children who have been killed"

you make a valid point. i wasn't trying to dodge your question. i was only pointing out that the children listed are not only what you described.

lets say that some of the children, who are in their late teens, were killed while engaged in terrorist activities. what about the other children? like the children that were killed last month, in august. the list is above and their situation is given. should you look the other way? can their killing be excused? should israel be condemned for these attacks that kill innocent people, especially children? should harper continue to support israel's illegal actions and war crimes (as concluded by the UN, amnesty international, HRW, the red cross)?

hamas should be condemned and not supported for their actions. why is harper giving israel a pass despite their actions?

[Bob]

you make a valid point. i wasn't trying to dodge your question. i was only pointing out that the children listed are not only what you described.

lets say that some of the children, who are in their late teens, were killed while engaged in terrorist activities. what about the other children? like the children that were killed last month, in august. the list is above and their situation is given. should you look the other way? can their killing be excused? should israel be condemned for these attacks that kill innocent people, especially children? should harper continue to support israel's illegal actions and war crimes (as concluded by the UN, amnesty international, HRW, the red cross)?

hamas should be condemned and not supported for their actions. why is harper giving israel a pass despite their actions?

You're again ignoring the context, as if the story is so simple - "Israel kills 'Palestinian' kids". You think Israel can send in the RCMP to serve an arrest warrant in these places? This is a war, and people die. Want 'Palestinian" kids to stay alive? Stop using them in the infrastructure of terror, and stop embedding the infrastructure of terror where they live (operating our of apartments and schools, for example).

In your sick world the terrorists should be granted impunity because destroying them inevitably ends up with injured of killed "Palestinian" children. So just let the rockets fly, let the murderers plot, and let the shootings continue...

[bud]

Want 'Palestinian" kids to stay alive? Stop using them in the infrastructure of terror, and stop embedding the infrastructure of terror where they live (operating our of apartments and schools, for example).

the 2 year old was at home. he was killed when israel targeted his father. meaning that israel doesn't care that a child was in the house when they shoot missiles.

18 August 2011

Malek Khaled Hamad Shaat, 2, of Rafah refugee camp, Gaza, killed by an IDF missile while at home in Block J of the camp. He was killed during the targeted killing of his father, a member of the Popular Resistance Committees' Nasser Saladin Brigades.

19 August 2011

Islam Motaz Basem Quraiqe, 1, of Shujaiya, east of Gaza City, Gaza, killed, along with his uncle and father, by an IDF drone while riding on a motor cycle during the targeted killing of his father, a leader in Islamic Jihad's al-Quds Brigades.

29 August 2011

Haitham Ahmad Mustafa Maruf, 13, of Beit Lahiya, Gaza, died in Shifa Hospital, Gaza, of wounds sustained from an IDF drone attack while working on his family farm on August 21.

In your sick world the terrorists should be granted impunity because destroying them inevitably ends up with injured of killed "Palestinian" children. So just let the rockets fly, let the murderers plot, and let the shootings continue...

stfu fascist. in your sick world, ethnic cleansing is A OK.

the rockets will continue to fly as long as israel continues to occupy palestinian land, kill their children and deny the palestinians their rights.

Edited September 24, 2011 by bud