NDP and Liberals merger?

[Tilter]

But most Quebec NDP ridings are former Bloc ridings, and many if not most of the NDP MP's lack a political history. While it is true that Quebec voted "non" by a narrow margin in 1995, that was largely due to immigrants and English-speaking Quebeckers. I suspect strongly that most NDP support migrated from the Bloc and they will have their hands full trying to accomodate both separatist elements in Quebec and federalist elements elsewhere. Just ask Mulroney, Trudeau and Chretien.

While it is true that Quebec voted "non" by a narrow margin in 1995

and mostly by discounting huge blocks of votes as spoiled ballots and the elimination of a huge district of voters in the "Yes" districts of Montreal.

[Tilter]

nonsense. You may have seen evidence within the early makeup of the Reform... call that the 'fringe of the fringe'. There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation.

Dream on--- there is a large segment of voters in Alberta who are tired of supporting the social programs in Quebec that Alberta can't afford because they are buying them for the Quebecois

[waldo]

nonsense. You may have seen evidence within the early makeup of the Reform... call that the 'fringe of the fringe'. There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation.

Dream on--- there is a large segment of voters in Alberta who are tired of supporting the social programs in Quebec that Alberta can't afford because they are buying them for the Quebecois

do your dreams also afford you the opportunity to translate that supposed "large segment" into a fully qualified number/percentage, particularly one hell bent on satisfying your apparent lust for separation? If I've misinterpreted your personal desires, don't hesitate to correct that, hey? So there's a clear understanding, just what social programs in Quebec, the ones you suggest Alberta can't afford (for whatever reasons you might presume upon), are you alluding to?

[Smallc]

Too many people forget that regionalism, not ideology, drives Canadian federal politics.

The two are in fact very linked. It isn't as simple as you want to make it out to be.

[Black Dog]

Too many people forget that there's already a topic on this.

[Mr.Canada]

Many in Qc and elsewhere hate the Liberals for ADSCAM and will never vote for them ever again. A merger will surely push more votes to the Tories. I say merge away.

[Michael Hardner]

Good point, BD, I will ask mods to merge this.

[bush_cheney2004]

First, Canada needs to merge with itself.

[William Ashley]

Many in Qc and elsewhere hate the Liberals for ADSCAM and will never vote for them ever again. A merger will surely push more votes to the Tories. I say merge away.

You are from Qc?

How many people from Quebec do you know?

This looks to me more like le vente col

The idea of "promoting federalism and imporving a "Federalist Party" in Quebec isn't entirely against the national security agenda. Taking into consideration the emergence of the program after nearly half of Quebec voted to leave Canada.

None the less *boof*

Mr. Clement misdirected 50 MILLION dollars in g8 "BORDER SECURITY" in Huntsville (no where near the Border of Canada.. unless you ask cops who say that people in Toronto arn't in Canada anymore (while the provincial government says it is a provincial public work - Ontario must have seperated..?), I geuss this must apply in Mr. Clements riding where Canadian laws don't apply.

where is HUNTSCAM?

Edited September 1, 2011 by William Ashley

[fellowtraveller]

Frankly, I don't think the apple falls far from the tree and his father believed Canada would be better off with only 2 parties. I believe Preston Manning's entire goal was to create a Right-wing party that would polarize this country and given the results of the last election, it seems it has worked.

The country was polarized before Preston Manning was weaned.

Reform was, intially and partly, a belated response to the regions that were already very well organized indeed: Ontario and Quebec.

The results of the last election are not really closely related to that though. Much of what we saw was a fallout from Adscam combined with the Liberal insistence on stepping on their own dick with gusto.

Quebec stumbled through the last election, they won't be doing that next time.

The suggestion that Western separatism was a prime driver behind Reform is nonsense.

[Wild Bill]

do your dreams also afford you the opportunity to translate that supposed "large segment" into a fully qualified number/percentage, particularly one hell bent on satisfying your apparent lust for separation? If I've misinterpreted your personal desires, don't hesitate to correct that, hey? So there's a clear understanding, just what social programs in Quebec, the ones you suggest Alberta can't afford (for whatever reasons you might presume upon), are you alluding to?

Here we see another example of the typical Waldo approach to debate:

"You claim there is a large percentage that feels or felt that way?

NAME THEM! NAME THEM ALL!"

[Smallc]

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that proof is required.

[Mr.Canada]

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that proof is required.

The proof is in the pudding.

[Michael Hardner]

"You claim there is a large percentage that feels or felt that way?

NAME THEM! NAME THEM ALL!"

It's actually a basic tenet of science to provide proof or evidence. Artists use emotions to persuade.

I thought you were scientific ?

[fellowtraveller]

waldo, on 01 September 2011 - 01:03 AM, said:

nonsense. You may have seen evidence within the early makeup of the Reform... call that the 'fringe of the fringe'. There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation.

Dream on--- there is a large segment of voters in Alberta who are tired of supporting the social programs in Quebec that Alberta can't afford because they are buying them for the Quebecois

First part: correct. There is not now and never has been any significant separatist movement or sentiment in Alberta or anywhere else in the Wewst.

Second apart: incorrect. A few people bitch and whine about Alberta supporting the entire country financially, not just Quebec. But there is no political movement, no popular sentiment, no press of any note and little public or private discussion about the issue. I reckon that is at least in part because the West- for the first time ever perhaps- is actually relevant in Confederation.

[waldo]

waldo, on 01 September 2011 - 01:03 AM, said:

nonsense. You may have seen evidence within the early makeup of the Reform... call that the 'fringe of the fringe'. There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation.

Dream on--- there is a large segment of voters in Alberta who are tired of supporting the social programs in Quebec that Alberta can't afford because they are buying them for the Quebecois

First part: correct. There is not now and never has been any significant separatist movement or sentiment in Alberta or anywhere else in the Wewst.

Second apart: incorrect. A few people bitch and whine about Alberta supporting the entire country financially, not just Quebec. But there is no political movement, no popular sentiment, no press of any note and little public or private discussion about the issue. I reckon that is at least in part because the West- for the first time ever perhaps- is actually relevant in Confederation.

the quote string you're replying to is incorrect; corrected, as below. I am in agreement with both your described first part correctness and your described second part incorrectness:

nonsense. You may have seen evidence within the early makeup of the Reform... call that the 'fringe of the fringe'. There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation.

Dream on--- there is a large segment of voters in Alberta who are tired of supporting the social programs in Quebec that Alberta can't afford because they are buying them for the Quebecois

do your dreams also afford you the opportunity to translate that supposed "large segment" into a fully qualified number/percentage, particularly one hell bent on satisfying your apparent lust for separation? If I've misinterpreted your personal desires, don't hesitate to correct that, hey? So there's a clear understanding, just what social programs in Quebec, the ones you suggest Alberta can't afford (for whatever reasons you might presume upon), are you alluding to?

[jbg]

nonsense. You may have seen evidence within the early makeup of the Reform... call that the 'fringe of the fringe'. There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation.

The "fringe of the fringe", I believe, got more than 50 ridings in the 1993 election, the first election in which they ran as a party.

[waldo]

The "fringe of the fringe", I believe, got more than 50 ridings in the 1993 election, the first election in which they ran as a party.

don't hesitate to bring forward any historical fact and/or anecdote that shows the 93 platform/candidates ran on a western separatist theme.

[jbg]

The proof is in the pudding.

A proof is a proof.

[Tilter]

the quote string you're replying to is incorrect; corrected, as below. I am in agreement with both your described first part correctness and your described second part incorrectness:

no

[Tilter]

the quote string you're replying to is incorrect; corrected, as below. I am in agreement with both your described first part correctness and your described second part incorrectness:

try daycare for a start.

[jbg]

don't hesitate to bring forward any historical fact and/or anecdote that shows the 93 platform/candidates ran on a western separatist theme.

The Reform Party didn't. By that point the theme was "the West wants in". You called the "fringe of the fringe", not me.

[Tilter]

[NDP and Liberals as one party?/quote]

the NDP just buried a leader and the libs recently buried their political future--- neither one is in the mood for a party

Edited September 1, 2011 by Tilter

[Wild Bill]

This is from 2005:

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20050809/separatist_poll_canada_050809/

"CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Tuesday Aug. 9, 2005 2:23 PM ET

At least one-third of Western Canadians think it's time for their provinces to consider quitting Canada, a new poll suggests."

Here's some history:

http://politicalpapers.ucalgary.ca/wcc

"The Western Canada Concept was a Western Canadian political party founded in 1980 to promote the separation of the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia and the Yukon and Northwest Territories from Canada in order to create a new nation. "

"A member of the party, Gordon Kesler, was elected to the Alberta legislature in a 1982 provincial by-election in Olds-Didsbury riding that drew national attention. The Party's best electoral results came later in the same year during the Alberta general election, where it took 11.8 per cent of the vote, though it did not elect any MLAs and Gordon Kesler lost his seat. "

11.8%? Seems a significant number to me! It was more than enough to get Elizabeth May into a candidate debate.

More history:

http://www.canadahistory.com/sections/eras/trudeau/western_alienation.htm

"By 1981 almost half of Albertans were in favour of separation from Canada. Their feeling that the Canadian government was controlled by Ontario and Quebec interested was relatively correct in the vast majority of the population of the country lived in those two provinces and they had therefore had the majority of the seats in Parliament. The isolation of the west was briefly alleviated in 1981 when Lougheed and the Fed's came to an agreement over revenue sharing but when oil prices collapse in 1982 Alberta was faced with difficult times and many blamed the Federal government for the bad times."

When Waldo says "There was no public sentiment towards western separation... there is no public sentiment towards western separation... there has never been a public sentiment towards western separation." I don't see how he makes such a strong assertation when a simple quick google gives pages and pages of sites! There are likely MILLIONS of Westerners still alive that vividly remember those times!

Perhaps he can explain this apparent contradiction.

[Smallc]

I specifically said not to use the Western Standard poll. I'm sure, also, that I could get 11.8% of people to vote for pretty much anything. The final link doesn't give a citation. The Western Standard poll, btw, does not jive with numbers of Canadian patriotism in 2008, 2009, and 2010 Globe and Mail Canada Day articles.