Occupy Wall Street Sept 17 2011

[jacee]

I've already posted links, which you've ignored. I guess facts get in the way of your lies and meme huh?

The link you provided earlier contained no data-ie it looked like the graph had been removed.

The link you now provide doesn't support the statement you posted.

Try again.

[CPCFTW]

The link you provided earlier contained no data-ie it looked like the graph had been removed.

The link you now provide doesn't support the statement you posted.

Try again.

"The wealthiEST 1% of Canadians get more government WELFARE than unemployed Canadians."

How about you provide a link for your sig before you start being another lefty citation nazi?

[jacee]

Canada Revenue Agency's tax auditors (AUs) do quite well in their own right.

Entry level AU 1: $48,216.00 to $67,829.00

Top level AU 6: $95,646.00 to $118,503.00

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/crrs/wrkng/pyrts/au-eng.html

That's not counting the work they do on the side, especially at tax time, which supplements their income.

They should lead by example and double what they pay in personal income taxes.

See? Plenty of jobs doing decent work, other than working on Wall Street.

[jacee]

"The wealthiEST 1% of Canadians get more government WELFARE than unemployed Canadians."

How about you provide a link for your sig before you start being another lefty citation nazi?

$2.6b per year in direct corporate subsidies, 35% tax breaks for the wealthiest, tax evasion estimated at $300b in lost revenues.

Data from a variety of sources. I do my own math.

[bush_cheney2004]

$2.6b per year in direct corporate subsidies, 35% tax breaks for the wealthiest, tax evasion estimated at $300b in lost revenues.

Data from a variety of sources. I do my own math.

That's all they get? That's a lot less than poor unemployed sloth collecting EI and other programs years on end. The wealthiest should get more, but they don't, despite paying for the lion's share, not just fair share.

[Shady]

I do my own math.

Classic!!!

[CPCFTW]

$2.6b per year in direct corporate subsidies, 35% tax breaks for the wealthiest, tax evasion estimated at $300b in lost revenues.

Data from a variety of sources. I do my own math.

Saying "a variety of sources" doesn't constitute a source. Please provide the variety of sources that have estimated tax evasion at $300b.

Percentages you pulled from your ass don't mean anything. Please explain why tax breaks are "welfare"? If I buy a house and rent it out, is the tax break I get on the mortgage interest on my rental investment "welfare"?

Please add up the welfare that the wealthiest 1% get in numerical terms with specific citations, then add up the welfare that the poor get, and "do the math" proving that the wealthiest 1% of canadians get more welfare than the unemployed.

Edited October 12, 2011 by CPCFTW

[Bob]

BS. There are tons of jobs for people with useful degrees. 100,000 unfilled engineering jobs, for example. Companies are desperately trying to find anyone with a shred of talent. "Youth" who went to college for useless liberal mumbo-jumbo and studied partied for 4 years to get their "degree", on the other hand, will rightly not find jobs in their "field".

This is a great post. It was hilarious how you pissed off cybercoma, who tried to sell us on this notion of liberal arts programs being comparable to technical education with respect to validity. Yes, any program can be made unnecessarily difficult, and there is no doubt that insecure professors in liberal arts programs sometimes intentionally make things more difficult than necessary in order to reinforce their false sense of self-importance, as if their Ph.D in "women's studies" is not only meaningless, but predicated on lies.

[Shady]

Saying "a variety of sources" doesn't constitute a source. Please provide the variety of sources that have estimated tax evasion at $300b.

Percentages you pulled from your ass don't mean anything. Please explain why tax breaks are "welfare"? If I buy a house and rent it out, is the tax break I get on the mortgage interest on my rental investment "welfare"?

Please add up the welfare that the rich get in numerical terms with specific citations, then add up the welfare that the poor get, and "do the math" proving that the wealthiest 1% of canadians get more of the welfare than the unemployed.

Exactly. To people like jacee, keeping more of your own money constitutes welfare.

[jacee]

That's all they get? That's a lot less than poor unemployed sloth collecting EI and other programs years on end. The wealthiest should get more, but they don't, despite paying for the lion's share, not just fair share.

They don't.

[maple_leafs182]

I would say the greater majority of the people on this site have no idea what occupy wall street is about, you guys keep claiming it is about increases state socialism and raising taxes on the rich but it is about getting rid of corporate influence in politics.

[Shady]

They don't.

They do.

[Bob]

I would say the greater majority of the people on this site have no idea what occupy wall street is about, you guys keep claiming it is about increases state socialism and raising taxes on the rich but it is about getting rid of corporate influence in politics.

Actually, you're the one living in fantasy world about the true nature of these demonstrations and the common denominators among most of the participants.

Here's a video of a typical leftist at these demonstrations, trying to sell us on socialism and/or communism. This guy is a typical idiot, one whom you probably see eye-to-eye with.

[Bob]

Here's another example of these rats in NYC, sleeping in the streets, littering everywhere, and basically just spreading their disgusting presence. Listen to the rhetoric from these losers with no skills, no education, no talent, and obviously no money, crying on and on about what's owed to them, all the while masquerading their concerns as being rooted in "the collective" and the "greater good". Again, these are typical loser leftists who have nothing of value to offer society except their opinion, while demanding something for nothing. Of course, this stunt gives these idiots a chance to hook up and maybe get laid in a filthy alley because they can't get any privacy in their mothers' basements where they typically reside. Listen to the girl at 4:35 talking about "demanding rights", and then the girl after her whining about "corporate greed". Check out the guy at 5:58, high out of his mind, talking about building a "new society". If you wanna build a "new society", you better get some skills and talents. If you can't provide anything of value, what role do you have in this "new society"? Maybe he can roll the joints in this "new society". It's unreal.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Bob

[bush_cheney2004]

....you guys keep claiming it is about increases state socialism and raising taxes on the rich but it is about getting rid of corporate influence in politics.

NO, no...I really get it...I do, it's just that I would rather have Wall Street influencing politics than these poor unemployed slobs. Just sayin'...

[jacee]

Exactly. To people like jacee, keeping more of your own money constitutes welfare.

It's not "your own money" until all of the costs of doing business are paid, including all taxes - ie, the cost of public infrastructure and services that YOU NEED to do business.

You don't pay for infrastructure and services up front: Canadian taxpayers do. (We are all equal shareholders in the Corporation of Canada). AFTER you've used the public infrastructure to earn UNTAXED revenues, you are assessed for the cost of your use, based on your revenues minus costs, and you pay income tax on that.

Anyone whose income is a paycheque knows that gross income doesn't mean much: It's net pay (take home) that you live on and since the taxes are already taken off, you don't miss them because your mental calculations are based on net pay.

For the self-employed/corporations, however, gross revenues are king and taxes are taken off later. That's a serious problem, in my opinion, because those people do mental calculations based on before tax income , and then feel 'betrayed' that they have to pay taxes out of what they were thinking was their "own" money.

Smart people with untaxed income pay taxes upfront/quarterly so there are no surprises or huge obligations at tax time. Those who leave all payment for the costs of public infrastructure and services to tax time cause their own grief, and they whine a lot. Tough. You caused your own pain by failing to have an adequate business plan that included the costs you pay for services and infrastructure paid for by the people of Canada.

I have less than zero sympathy for those who fail to include public costs in their business planning and then whine about it being their "own money". That's just lousy business planning.

It's not "your own money" until you've paid the taxpayers for their investment in your business. If you don't pay the full cost of doing business, you are on government 'welfare', a parasite living off the taxpayers. If you can't make a reasonable profit while paying ALL of your business costs, you may as well go collect welfare and live the 'good life' off the taxpayers that way. It would be cheaper for us all.

I believe that taxes should be collected upfront, as they are for wage earners, to prevent the mental miscalculations of the self-employed/companies who mistakenly think public costs are somehow a free 'donation' to their success: They are not charity for business. We all pay the cost of public infrastructure according to the revenues we make from using them.

Your cost-per-unit/service should include public costs. If it doesn't, you are just a lousy businessperson imo.

Aside from this, I think we need to get more astute about businesses that aren't really businesses but perhaps just expensive hobbies used as tax writeoffs for the costs they generate.

Perhaps that's another topic ... but would I give a receipt for an item purchased by someone for their hobby? Not a snowball's chance in hell!

Edited October 12, 2011 by jacee

[CPCFTW]

It's not "your own money" until all of the costs of doing business are paid, including all taxes - ie, the cost of public infrastructure and services that YOU NEED to do business.

You don't pay for infrastructure and services up front: Canadian taxpayers do. (We are all equal shareholders in the Corporation of Canada). AFTER you've used the public infrastructure to earn UNTAXED revenues, you are assessed for the cost of your use, based on your revenues minus costs, and you pay that as income tax.

Anyone whose income is a paycheque knows that gross income doesn't mean much: It's net pay (take home) that you live on and since the taxes are already taken off, you don't miss them because your mental calculations are based on net pay.

For the self-employed/corporations, however, gross revenues are king and taxes are taken off later. That's a serious problem, in my opinion, because those people do mental calculations based on before tax income , and then feel 'betrayed' that they have to pay taxes out of what they were thinking was their "own" money.

Smart people with untaxed income pay taxes upfront/quarterly so there are no surprises or huge obligations at tax time. Those who leave all payment for the costs of public infrastructure and services to tax time cause their own grief, and they whine a lot. Tough. You caused your own pain by failing to have an adequate business plan that included the costs you pay for services and infrastructure paid for by the people of Canada.

I have less than zero sympathy for those who fail to include public costs in their business planning and then whine about it being their "own money". That's just lousy business planning.

It's not "your own money" until you've paid the taxpayers for their investment in your business.

I believe that taxes should be collected upfront, as they are for wage earners, to prevent the mental miscalculations of the self-employed/companies who mistakenly think public costs are somehow a free 'donation' to their success: They are not charity for business. We all pay the cost of public infrastructure according to the revenues we make from using them.

Your cost-per-unit/service should include public costs. If it doesn't, you are just a lousy businessperson imo.

Aside from this, I think we need to get more astute about businesses that aren't really businesses but perhaps just expensive hobbies used as tax writeoffs for the costs they generate.

Perhaps that's another topic ... but would I give a receipt for an item purchased by someone for their hobby? Not a snowball's chance in hell!

So you just have more of your opinion on how the world should work and still no citation for the baseless claim in your sig?

I guess citations only matter when they contradict you.

[capricorn]

I would say the greater majority of the people on this site have no idea what occupy wall street is about,

Neither does the great majority of people protesting on Wall Street.

[jacee]

This is a great post. It was hilarious how you pissed off cybercoma, who tried to sell us on this notion of liberal arts programs being comparable to technical education with respect to validity. Yes, any program can be made unnecessarily difficult, and there is no doubt that insecure professors in liberal arts programs sometimes intentionally make things more difficult than necessary in order to reinforce their false sense of self-importance, as if their Ph.D in "women's studies" is not only meaningless, but predicated on lies.

Gee, that accounts for fewer than 1000 people in the US.

The National Center for Education Statistics reports that a total of 681 degrees, excluding doctorates, were conferred in women's studies during the 1995-1996 school year, the most recent for which data are available. for which data are available. This is a relatively small number of degrees--comparable to the number granted annually in Afro- number granted annually in Afro- American studies or botany, for American studies or botany, for example--and far fewer than the 10,000 plus degrees granted in journalism or education. example--and far fewer than the 10,000 plus degrees granted in 10,000 plus degrees granted in journalism or education.

http://www.boundless.org/2000/features/a0000225.html

Ya, that's a huge problem.

And most of them work in women's services.

[jacee]

Here's another example of these rats in NYC, sleeping in the streets, littering everywhere, and basically just spreading their disgusting presence. Listen to the rhetoric from these losers with no skills, no education, no talent, and obviously no money, crying on and on about what's owed to them, all the while masquerading their concerns as being rooted in "the collective" and the "greater good". Again, these are typical loser leftists who have nothing of value to offer society except their opinion, while demanding something for nothing. Of course, this stunt gives these idiots a chance to hook up and maybe get laid in a filthy alley because they can't get any privacy in their mothers' basements where they typically reside. Listen to the girl at 4:35 talking about "demanding rights", and then the girl after her whining about "corporate greed". Check out the guy at 5:58, high out of his mind, talking about building a "new society". If you wanna build a "new society", you better get some skills and talents. If you can't provide anything of value, what role do you have in this "new society"? Maybe he can roll the joints in this "new society". It's unreal.

Neither one of these videos supports what you say, Bob. The young man says "Socialism is not a bad thing but socialism is not an answer in itself."

OccupyTogether (everywhere) is not a socialist or communist movement, though tax cheaters will try to paint it this way to discredit it.

What we're trying to do is to rid capitalism of predators who are takers and don't pay their own way: monopolistic predators, corporatist predators who buy up and shut down competition, tax cheats who don't pay their fair share for the public infrastructure they use, predatory fake companies who jack up their share value with meaningless or fake 'announcements' and cash in before the phantom stock tanks ... and of course the wealthiEST and most powerful who 'influence' politicians and tax laws to their advantage (ie, corruption of government).

That's but a sample of the serious problems with the current perverted system. It's the perversion we address.

[maple_leafs182]

Actually, you're the one living in fantasy world about the true nature of these demonstrations and the common denominators among most of the participants.

Here's a video of a typical leftist at these demonstrations, trying to sell us on socialism and/or communism. This guy is a typical idiot, one whom you probably see eye-to-eye with.

I didn't see anyone trying to sell me on socialism or communism in those videos.

There are many people on the right at these demonstrations too...a lot of them a Ron Paul supporters

But the issue isn't right verse left as you keep claiming it is, it is more up vs down. It the people feeling knowing that they are not being represented.

I think this video is a better representation of the spirit of OWS

[Michael Hardner]

What passion ! I hadn't heard of him before, but Wiki says he's from Upstate New York, so almost Canadian - a point in his favour.

If you're going to pick one issue that is non-partisan to blame for our woes, certainly the 'bought congress' that he complains about comes to mind. I believe that our elections have got better since we limited contributions for political campaigns. It doesn't make sense to try to fight an election with commercials.

The next step is to eliminate 3rd party campaign ads, such as the ones that helped sink Tim Hudak in Ontario.

[blueblood]

I didn't see anyone trying to sell me on socialism or communism in those videos.

There are many people on the right at these demonstrations too...a lot of them a Ron Paul supporters

But the issue isn't right verse left as you keep claiming it is, it is more up vs down. It the people feeling knowing that they are not being represented.

I think this video is a better representation of the spirit of OWS

Ha, if Ron Paul were to win and get congressional approval for his ideas, that would result in a short term stoppage of the economy and guess who would benefit from that? That would be corporations sitting on their savings.

The issue here is jealousy, entitlement, and greed, which coincidentally put us in this mess in the first place.

[GostHacked]

One heck of a rant by Ratigan. Sums it all up nicely.

[jacee]

So you just have more of your opinion on how the world should work and still no citation for the baseless claim in your sig?

I guess citations only matter when they contradict you.

You really think tax cheating and influence peddling info is out there for all to see? You underestimate the predators.

But the first order of business is offshore tax havens and taxes outstanding.

I've been wading around in this data I retrieved from StatsCan so I'll share it for general interest.

CANSIM > Financial and taxation statistics for enterprises, by North American Industry Classification System (NAICS),

(dollars unless otherwise noted)

Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee