Occupy Wall Street Sept 17 2011

[Shady]

The next step is to eliminate 3rd party campaign ads

So the next step is to eliminate people's freedom of speech? That's not an Ontario or Canada I want to live it. Perhaps you can take up that cause in another country instead.

[bush_cheney2004]

I've been wading around in this data I retrieved from StatsCan so I'll share it for general interest.

Yea...start with Paul Martin!

[Shady]

One heck of a rant by Ratigan. Sums it all up nicely.

Really? Which part sums up the government's role in the sub-prime mortgage issue and their insistence on pushing bad policy in the name of home ownership for low income earners? I didn't hear him mention that, which was the catalyst for the enitre houseing bubble. I also didn't hear him mention the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999. And you call that a nice summary?

[blueblood]

You really think tax cheating and influence peddling info is out there for all to see? You underestimate the predators.

But the first order of business is offshore tax havens and taxes outstanding.

I've been wading around in this data I retrieved from StatsCan so I'll share it for general interest.

http://estat.statcan.gc.ca/cgi-win/CNSMCGI.EXE

Oh curse those people for providing those offshore banks with stable liquidity for making loans to other people thus improving their lives!

Those bastards!!!

[cybercoma]

I would say the greater majority of the people on this site have no idea what occupy wall street is about, you guys keep claiming it is about increases state socialism and raising taxes on the rich but it is about getting rid of corporate influence in politics.

Give the (wo)man a cookie!

[jacee]

I would say the greater majority of the people on this site have no idea what occupy wall street is about, you guys keep claiming it is about increases state socialism and raising taxes on the rich but it is about getting rid of corporate influence in politics.

You are absolutely right.

And that corporate influence is evident in increasing accumulation of our wealth by the wealthiEST Canadians, a trend that is destroying the middle class and our economic futures. It's a destructive greed influence that endangers us all.

The corporate and/or personal influence on politicians (lawmakers) and/or bureaucrats (policymakers) ... and perhaps on law enforcement ... and the judiciary? ... has the result of increasing the income gap between the richest and the rest of us that has led to the current civil unrest.

The current economic situation is the driver of change. Ending corporate/personal influence is necessary because it's driving 99% of us into an economic ditch.

Taxation is part of the picture. Hoarding wealth instead of providing jobs is another. Environmental destruction via influencing regulation is another, and the costs of cleanup are often assumed by the taxpayers but not included in costs of production: We're producing less of net value than the GDP shows so our economic outlook is no longer predictable except that it will be worse than the GDP suggests.

No it isn't all about taxation it's true but we do need to ensure fairness there because we need the economy functioning and the G20 "austerity" strategy is an economic killer.

It's about self preservation, for all of us.

Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

...The current economic situation is the driver of change. Ending corporate/personal influence is necessary because it's driving 99% of us into an economic ditch.

Speak for yourself....not 99% of people. I can drive a lot better than you!

[blueblood]

You are absolutely right.

And that corporate influence is evident in increasing accumulation of our wealth by the wealthiEST Canadians, a trend that is destroying the middle class and our economic futures. It's a destructive greed influence that endangers us all.

The corporate and/or personal influence on politicians (lawmakers) and/or bureaucrats (policymakers) ... and perhaps on law enforcement ... and the judiciary? ... has the result of increasing the income gap between the richest and the rest of us that has led to the current civil unrest.

The current economic situation is the driver of change. Ending corporate/personal influence is necessary because it's driving 99% of us into an economic ditch.

How does a person becoming wealthy make others poor? Does the wealthy person put his money in a mattress?

What are unions and NGO s chopped liver? They get to influence politicians as well. What's the problem with an income gap if everybodys lives improve? Computers are cheaper than ever and computer companies are making a fortune. Nope your problem is jealousy, greed and entitlement.

The only thing driving "us" into the ditch is ourselves. Cain has it right.

Edited October 13, 2011 by blueblood

[jacee]

So the next step is to eliminate people's freedom of speech? That's not an Ontario or Canada I want to live it. Perhaps you can take up that cause in another country instead.

I agree with Shady.

And I think we have to take the bullying out of politics. It's such a bad example for kids.

The Hudak "Good boy" ad was outrageous(ly funny) and deadly. One shot over the bow at Bay Street. (We can take you down ... did. ) A bully move against the usual bullies ... because we can.

But that's enough.

We are all in the business of educating the young, setting an example. Right now the millennial young in Zuccotti Park can teach us all that cooperation is much more efficient than competition, with its intrinsic duplication of effort and cost.

And economic and political and police bullying are soooo 20th century.

[bush_cheney2004]

....We are all in the business of educating the young, setting an example. Right now the millennial young in Zuccotti Park can teach us all that cooperation is much more efficient than competition, with its intrinsic duplication of effort and cost.

No....competition yields the best performance...even for the losers.

[Guest Derek L]

I would say the greater majority of the people on this site have no idea what occupy wall street is about, you guys keep claiming it is about increases state socialism and raising taxes on the rich but it is about getting rid of corporate influence in politics.

But is it really? I’ve yet to see anything to suggest that those occupying Wall Street, even know what it’s really about………Their demonstrations seem to be lacking in focus and strategy………Until this group, that by some estimates could all fit into a stadium, sets attainable goals, all they will accomplish is annoy commuters.

[capricorn]

I’ve yet to see anything to suggest that those occupying Wall Street, even know what it’s really about………Their demonstrations seem to be lacking in focus and strategy

The majority of protestors do seem to be in the dark about their specific beef. So far, all I've got is it's about 1% of the population making too much money and not paying enough taxes. I've read some of the protestors are well heeled and seen the pictures. Nikon cameras and brand name duds, for example. Kinda puts a new velour on my picture of the downtrodden masses.

Util this group, that by some estimates could all fit into a stadium, sets attainable goals, all they will accomplish is annoy commuters.

On the positive side, cops and street cleaners are earning overtime pay that they'll spend in their communities.

[Guest Derek L]

The majority of protestors do seem to be in the dark about their specific beef. So far, all I've got is it's about 1% of the population making too much money and not paying enough taxes. I've read some of the protestors are well heeled and seen the pictures. Nikon cameras and brand name duds, for example. Kinda puts a new velour on my picture of the downtrodden masses.

Unlike the Tea Party, that the establishment Republicans have begrudgingly embraced, I’ve yet to see the Democrats (Or NDP/Liberals) move towards the Wall Streeters (I created this word just now ©)……..I wonder why that is…..

[capricorn]

In the weeks since the protesters began their encampment, Brookfield has repeatedly asked the NYPD to keep people from sleeping in it. But police have not acted on those requests.

Brookfield reiterated its position in a letter on Tuesday to Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.

"After weeks of occupation, conditions at the Park have deteriorated to unsanitary and unsafe levels," Brookfield's chief executive, Richard Clark, said in the letter, noting that Brookfield has "received hundreds of phone calls and emails from concerned citizens and office workers in the neighborhood."

"The Park has no toilets and while the existing trash receptacles have always been more than adequate to accommodate normal waste in the Park, those receptacles are no longer even close to sufficient and the resulting trash accumulation is attracting rodents," he wrote.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576627703543550920.html

Oh, poop!

[Guest Derek L]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576627703543550920.html

Oh, poop!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576627703543550920.html

Some more highlights:

But while Mr. Bloomberg believes the demonstrators have a First Amendment right to protest, Deputy Mayor for Operations Cas Holloway said in a statement Wednesday evening that conditions in the park had become "unsanitary."

Mr. Holloway said the cleaning will be completed in stages by the park's landlord, Brookfield Office Properties Inc., which has complained to the city about the protesters. Because the cleaning will involve power-washing, the police will advise protesters they must leave during the process, city officials said.

Some protesters objected to city and the landlord's depiction of the park and said some would try to remain, no matter what the city or Brookfield do.

Time to see if the Wall Streeters (©) have the stones to confront the “pigs”…….

"Unsanitary? We have a cleaning department here," said Junior Martinez, 23 years old, who lives on the Lower East Side when not camping out. He added: "Tents or not, we will sleep without tents. I think people are going to end up doing it no matter what."

We`ll see if they do indeed decide to rough it

"The Park has no toilets and while the existing trash receptacles have always been more than adequate to accommodate normal waste in the Park, those receptacles are no longer even close to sufficient and the resulting trash accumulation is attracting rodents," he wrote.

Let them eat rat $h!T

[jacee]

Oh curse those people for providing those offshore banks with stable liquidity for making loans to other people thus improving their lives!

Those bastards!!!

Ya?

So your customers owe you $500b for product already delivered, but they've taken their money out of the country where you can't collect it, and you're paying banksters $50b a year to service the debt you incurred in production.

Still think it's funny?

We're all shareholders in Canada, all taxpayers who are on the hook to make up the taxes for the cheats.

So Canada is incurring a huge business loss - and the criminals and wannabes think it's funny - and Canada can't claim it as a loss against taxes owing, get a tax reduction, declare bankruptcy and morph into a new company name debt free, etc.

What do you do?

Oh and by the way, if our/Canada's employees aren't working we still have to pay them anyway (ei, welfare) while the infrastructure and services for business are cut.

Austerity in the public service is business cutting off its own legs.

But at least we'll have lots of jail space as that's an 'investment' that business welcomes ... apparently ...

If I sound confused it's because I am. I really don't get your sense of humour, blueblood. Are you Canadian? Do you not take an interest in the wellbeing of Canada as a shareholder?

Do you only think of ways to rip off Canada?

Don't you think we/Canada should be just a bit annoyed at people ripping us off?

As shareholders?

Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee

[Bonam]

Ya?

So your customers owe you $500b for product already delivered, but they've taken their money out of the country where you can't collect it, and you're paying banksters $50b a year to service the debt you incurred in production.

Still think it's funny?

We're all shareholders in Canada, all taxpayers who are on the hook to make up the taxes for the cheats.

So Canada is incurring a huge business loss - and the criminals and wannabes think it's funny - and Canada can't claim it as a loss against taxes owing, get a tax reduction, declare bankruptcy and morph into a new company name debt free, etc.

What do you do?

Oh and by the way, if our/Canada's employees aren't working we still have to pay them anyway (ei, welfare) while the infrastructure and services for businesses is cut.

Austerity in the public service is business cutting off its own legs.

But at least we'll have lots of jail space as that's an 'investment' that business welcomes ... apparently ...

If I sound confused it's because I am. I really don't get your sense of humour, blueblood. Are you Canadian? Do you not take an interest in the wellbeing of Canada as a shareholder?

Do you only think of ways to rip off Canada?

Don't you think we/Canada should be just a bit annoyed at people ripping us off?

As shareholders?

You've yet to show even the slightest speck of evidence that amounts on the order of $300-500 billion (as you've claimed) have been evaded from taxation. Just like you've failed to show any evidence that any of Canada's billionaires, who you have repeatedly accused of tax fraud and tax evasion, have committed any such acts.

You aren't gonna build a new society on baseless accusations. Well, maybe you could build a Gulag.

[bush_cheney2004]

Unlike the Tea Party, that the establishment Republicans have begrudgingly embraced, I’ve yet to see the Democrats (Or NDP/Liberals) move towards the Wall Streeters (I created this word just now ©)……..I wonder why that is…..

Because Democrats learned that lesson many years ago with McGovern and war protesters.

[Guest Derek L]

Because Democrats learned that lesson many years ago with McGovern and war protesters.

Exactly………

Hippie loving in ’72 + election = Nixon

Hippie Loving in ‘11/‘12 + election = Harper, Cameron and Romney/Perry/Cain?

[jacee]

Ha, if Ron Paul were to win and get congressional approval for his ideas, that would result in a short term stoppage of the economy and guess who would benefit from that? That would be corporations sitting on their savings.

The issue here is jealousy, entitlement, and greed, which coincidentally put us in this mess in the first place.

Absolutely.

And it's good that you can sit on your money so acquired, because inflation loves a sitting duck.

[CPCFTW]

Absolutely.

And it's good that you can sit on your money so acquired, because inflation loves a sitting duck.

Uh oh.. Watch out for that big bad 2% inflation.. It's gonna get you!

[jacee]

You've yet to show even the slightest speck of evidence that amounts on the order of $300-500 billion (as you've claimed) have been evaded from taxation. Just like you've failed to show any evidence that any of Canada's billionaires, who you have repeatedly accused of tax fraud and tax evasion, have committed any such acts.

You aren't gonna build a new society on baseless accusations. Well, maybe you could build a Gulag.

The US and UK are aggressively pursuing illegal offshore funds. There's been some fallout for Switzerland ...

Why is Switzerland Cleaning Up its Tax Haven Status? Switzerland is a famous offshore tax haven, renowned for its banking secrecy – but its status has been eroded and now it is having to transform itself to protect its economy

Therefore, conceivably, the reason why Switzerland is cleaning up its act is in part because so much damage has been done to its reputation that changes are required, and in part because the changes can and will have a positive effect on the nation’s business and economic environment. The world needs a centre for tax compliant wealth management expertise – the world does not need the stress of another ‘dodgy’ tax haven.

Switzerland may have been backed into a corner and forced to make these choices and these changes – but the fact that banks are now pushing hard on the ‘know your customer’ due diligence front and working together to create legislation harmonisation is positive. Whilst banking secrecy is still high on the agenda of the institutions within Switzerland, they want to extend this right only to those clients who can prove that they are tax compliant.

Harper may not want to follow this trend, assuming some of his well-heeled supporters might have an interest in illegal tax havens.

However he feels, he's got his majority in an era when public opinion takes a dim view of tax cheating Canadian individuals and corporations.

We're not doing 'austerity' this time.

They are.

Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee

[Guest Derek L]

The US and UK are aggressively pursuing illegal offshore funds. There's been some fallout for Switzerland ...

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/offshore/more/why-switzerland-cleaning-up-tax-haven-status-1082

Harper may not want to follow this trend, assuming his oil buddies (does Harper really have buddies?) might have an interest in illegal tax havens.

However he feels, he's got his majority in an era when public opinion takes a dim view of tax cheating Canadian individuals and corporations.

We're not doing 'austerity' this time.

They are.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that PM Harper has “buddies” within the oil industry? A president of an oil company can only contribute the same amount to a political party as you and I……..

As for your link on Swiss banks……didn’t work, but I googled the quote you posted……..As far as I can tell, it’s a fourth year University students blog…………..I wouldn’t put too much merit into it…….Though the Swiss government changed their definitions of tax evasion & tax fraud, this was merely paying lip service to the OECD……..The Americans did put pressure on UBS a few years ago to release client names to the IRS, but after an appeal to Swiss federal court, FINMA was told to let the Americans pound sand……..Nothing has changed, business as usual……….

The Swiss care less about their reputation and more about their economy……The blogger’s logic is skewed…….If Swiss banks lose their attractiveness brought on by their current secrecy, their clients will move their funds out of country……….

[jacee]

Do you have any evidence to suggest that PM Harper has “buddies” within the oil industry? A president of an oil company can only contribute the same amount to a political party as you and I……..

As for your link on Swiss banks……didn’t work, but I googled the quote you posted……..As far as I can tell, it’s a fourth year University students blog…………..I wouldn’t put too much merit into it…….Though the Swiss government changed their definitions of tax evasion & tax fraud, this was merely paying lip service to the OECD……..The Americans did put pressure on UBS a few years ago to release client names to the IRS, but after an appeal to Swiss federal court, FINMA was told to let the Americans pound sand……..Nothing has changed, business as usual……….

The Swiss care less about their reputation and more about their economy……The blogger’s logic is skewed…….If Swiss banks lose their attractiveness brought on by their current secrecy, their clients will move their funds out of country……….

Well ... I seem to have hit a nerve.

Yes, the link works fine.

No it's not " a fourth year university students blog"

It's an information/advertising site called "Shelter Offshore" and it's not about the weather but info like this:

There are some countries that haven’t got themselves in quite so much of an economic mess as the UK, and some of them welcome Britons seeking an income tax free lifestyle! As we will also demonstrate, there are nations and havens around the world where there are tax caps and where the likes of high net worth individuals and retirees are given the best deals on taxation.

It's just one of any number of such sites trying to attract wealthy people who want to have their citizenship without paying taxes - ie, criminal tax evaders.

Why so touchy?

Why is a man of the law insisting that illegal tax havens are conducting illegal business as usual ... as if to reassure investors?

Curiouser and curiouser ...

Especially since a quick google news search tells an entirely different story ...

Swiss bank confirms staff indicted in US tax case By Frank Jordans Associated Press / October 12, 2011 GENEVA— One current and one former employee at the Swiss private bank Julius Baer have been indicted in the United States in a $600 million tax evasion case. A Julius Baer AG spokesman, Martin Somogyi, said the Zurich-based bank was cooperating with U.S. authorities in their investigation. He provided no further details.

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York announced the indictment Tuesday of Daniela Casadei and Fabio Frazzetto on charges of conspiring to help American clients hide more than $600 million in offshore accounts and avoid paying taxes on the money. Casadei and Frazzetto allegedly opened and managed accounts for U.S. taxpayers with an institution described in the indictment only as" Swiss Bank No. 1" -- Julius Baer. Some of the accounts were linked to fictional names, others to relatives living abroad or sham companies created to hide the true owner."The defendants also allegedly advised clients not to worry about U.S. law enforcement authorities because Swiss Bank No. 1 no longer had offices on U.S. soil," the U.S. Attorney's office said.

...

Swiss media have reported that Julius Baer is among several Swiss banks currently being investigated by U.S. authorities for aiding American tax evaders. Two years ago, Switzerland's biggest bank, UBS AG, was forced to hand over the names of thousands of American account holders and pay a $780 million fine in a landmark case that started a gradual erosion of Switzerland's storied tradition of banking secrecy.

Earlier this year Julius Baer

paid euro50 million ($68 million) to avoid prosecution in Germany as part of a deal with tax authorities in Switzerland's northern neighbor.

... and so on ...

lots and lots of info on tax havens, like this book called

TAX HAVENS FOR CANADIANS

CHAPTER 10 - Luxembourg: A Traditional Haven for Holding & Finance Companies

CHAPTER 11 - Liechtenstein: A Bit of Utopia in Old Europe

CHAPTER 12 - Switzerland: Money Haven But Not A Tax Haven

CHAPTER 13 - Ireland: Special Haven for Entrepreneurs

CHAPTER 14 - The United States as a Tax Haven CHAPTER 15 - Regional Branch Havens: And How You Can Use Them

CHAPTER 16 - Miscellaneous Smaller Havens

Switzerland seems to be out of the illegal haven business though.

Edited October 13, 2011 by jacee

[jacee]

Uh oh.. Watch out for that big bad 2% inflation.. It's gonna get you!

Sit on gobs of money and it loses value.