BC_chick Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 That would be hilarious. Calling the cops for telling a child to be quiet. That's not what I said what's wrong with you? Stick to championing a lunatic who yells at toddlers and says she's not beyond physically assaulting its parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) That's not what I said what's wrong with you? Stick to championing a lunatic who yells at toddlers and says she's not beyond physically assaulting its parents. I guess you're not a business owner. Or watched any Restaurant Reality Shows to know how charged and pressured environment. I will concede this to you. The owner should have discussed this with the parents first. There's nothing in this media report that indicates she didn't though. She asked the parents to leave. The reports say this behaviour lasted for an hour. So if I tell you that a woman refused to leave or pacify her child in the face of repeated attempts to get her to do so. AND you think that a more reasonable response is to call the police and not lose your temper and tell the kid to shut up. Then I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Edited July 22, 2015 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 The woman slammed her hands on the counter, screamed at a 21 month old baby to STFU and even after calming down, called the kid "rotten" and said she's "f-ing crazy" and the parents are lucky she didn't physically beat them up. That's who you're championing. Good for you. If I ended up tolerating a screaming brat for as long as she had, particularly after asking them to deal with the problem child, then I too would think the kid was rotten and the parents too. No, it is not going overboard to "slam" ones hands on a counter to get someone's attention and then yell at them to STFU. That is entirely consistent with being frustrated by an annoying brat. I agree the threatening of violence on the parents part is overboard but that's not the issue under dispute here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 So many people think that their spawn is so special when in fact they are not. The rest of us don't think your screaming child is cute. We just want to enjoy our day in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 You can't compare yelling at a crying 2 year old who is sitting with its parents to disciplining unsupervised older children who are out and about. Sure I can. And clearly the 2 year old was unsupervised, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Nope, every single time it's some old miserable fart who has forgotten what parenting is like. Kinda like this woman. Eta - in one particular restaurant the manager apologized to me on their behalf and told them she'd be happy to move them. She had a four year herself. Or maybe it's somebody whose been around the block and done some parenting themselves. You're not one of these young parents who think they know everything and think us people over 40 are just dummies who are out of touch with todays parenting...are you? BTW - I always love listening to these new moms who espouse the idea that they'll never say "no" to their kid - good luck chickie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Or maybe it's somebody whose been around the block and done some parenting themselves. You're not one of these young parents who think they know everything and think us people over 40 are just dummies who are out of touch with todays parenting...are you? BTW - I always love listening to these new moms who espouse the idea that they'll never say "no" to their kid - good luck chickie! Oh God no, I'm not young. Don't be fooled by this handle, I've been using it since the late 90's on various sites (here, since 2006). And I'm not defending the actions of these particular parents, it just seems like everyone who has ever gotten their panties in a bunch over a crying kid is out here championing this woman as if we all have to right to decide when to tell other people's kids to STFU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Sure I can. And clearly the 2 year old was unsupervised, too. It's not your place. You speak to the adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 If I ended up tolerating a screaming brat for as long as she had, particularly after asking them to deal with the problem child, then I too would think the kid was rotten and the parents too. No, it is not going overboard to "slam" ones hands on a counter to get someone's attention and then yell at them to STFU. That is entirely consistent with being frustrated by an annoying brat. I agree the threatening of violence on the parents part is overboard but that's not the issue under dispute here. Are you kidding me? A screaming two year old is not "rotten", it's a two year old. They don't talk yet so screaming is their way of voicing their frustration. Something tells me you don't have kids. The threat to the parents is indeed relevant as it shows the mental stability of the woman you are defending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Nope, no kids. Still means my opinion is just as valid as yours though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Nope, no kids. Still means my opinion is just as valid as yours though. Toddler who don't speak express themselves through crying. They're not "rotten". Your opinion is not invalid, merely inexperienced with the realities of 2 year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I guess you're not a business owner. Or watched any Restaurant Reality Shows to know how charged and pressured environment. I will concede this to you. The owner should have discussed this with the parents first. There's nothing in this media report that indicates she didn't though. She asked the parents to leave. The reports say this behaviour lasted for an hour. So if I tell you that a woman refused to leave or pacify her child in the face of repeated attempts to get her to do so. AND you think that a more reasonable response is to call the police and not lose your temper and tell the kid to shut up. Then I guess we'll just agree to disagree. We just know one side of the story and that's the kid cried for an hour and the parents did absolutely nothing. *If* that's true, we both agree that the owner had a right to ask the parents to leave and we both agree that the owner had a right to get angry with the parents when they didn't. It's thereafter where we disagree and that's fine. Yes, I think the civilized approach is to call the police as you would with any other unruly patrons, but you're free to think yelling at toddlers is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I've gotten up and just left restaurants before without paying if someones ill mannered little spawn cannot control themselves. Parents today are more interested in being the childs friend then an actual parent. That is the biggest problem I see. Jeez no, you wouldn't want a parent being a friend to their kid. I guess you reckon better to smack 'em up side the head a few times and show 'em who's boss eh? Damn right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 According to Mrs Carson herself, Ms Neugebauer came over to the table earlier and confronted the parents: Out of nowhere, Marcy’s Diner owner Darla Neugebauer threw to-go containers at my husband and yelled, “Either she goes or you go!” While not exactly a sterling example of friendly customer service, Mrs Carson herself says that they had already been confronted once about their child's behavior, and in her own words "we didn't take it seriously." -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Toddler who don't speak express themselves through crying. They're not "rotten". Your opinion is not invalid, merely inexperienced with the realities of 2 year olds. I'm not so stupid and so inexperienced with children to not know this. Does not change my opinion nor invalidate my opinion. Irrelevant non sequitur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 According to Mrs Carson herself, Ms Neugebauer came over to the table earlier and confronted the parents: While not exactly a sterling example of friendly customer service, Mrs Carson herself says that they had already been confronted once about their child's behavior, and in her own words "we didn't take it seriously." -k Thanks for posting that, I've been wondering what the other side is to the story. Wow, worse than I thought. As for the taking her seriously, I read that paragraph quite differently than you did. They waited 40 minutes for their food only to have containers thrown at them as soon as it arrived. In context - she was so unprofessional and given that they hadn't seen her before, they didn't take it seriously that she's the OWNER. Not that they didn't take it seriously that she's about to pounce on their toddler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I'm not so stupid and so inexperienced with children to not know this. Does not change my opinion nor invalidate my opinion. Irrelevant non sequitur. You said crying toddlers are "rotten" and I retorted that they don't cry because they're rotten, they cry because they can't express themselves through words. It's what two year olds do. You did it too when you were two. If you really are experienced around toddlers and you still think the ones who cry are simply "rotten" then it's no wonder you defend this lunatic. ETA - it also goes to show that this argument has run its course. To you, crying 2 year old = rotten = people have a right to yell STFU to the kid. To me, crying kid = typical 2 year old = no right to yell at the toddler but perhaps ask the parents to leave and escort them if necessary. The argument kind of stops there given that our suppositions bring us to our conclusions and we disagree on the fundamental nature of the child's crying. All the best. Cheers. Edited July 23, 2015 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks for posting that, I've been wondering what the other side is to the story. Wow, worse than I thought. As for the taking her seriously, I read that paragraph quite differently than you did. They waited 40 minutes for their food only to have containers thrown at them as soon as it arrived. In context - she was so unprofessional and given that they hadn't seen her before, they didn't take it seriously that she's the OWNER. Not that they didn't take it seriously that she's about to pounce on their toddler. They figured she was some random person just wandering around with take-out containers? Anyway, clearly Ms Neugebauer yelling at the kid was *not* their first clue that their child was causing annoyance. If somebody comes over and throws to-go containers at you, you should be able to figure out that they're mad at you regardless of whether she's the owner or not. And Mrs Carson says her child was "fussing" but nobody seemed to be too angry. Is she of the opinion that unless people are visibly angry at her she's not disrupting anybody? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 They figured she was some random person just wandering around with take-out containers? Anyway, clearly Ms Neugebauer yelling at the kid was *not* their first clue that their child was causing annoyance. If somebody comes over and throws to-go containers at you, you should be able to figure out that they're mad at you regardless of whether she's the owner or not. And Mrs Carson says her child was "fussing" but nobody seemed to be too angry. Is she of the opinion that unless people are visibly angry at her she's not disrupting anybody? -k Yes! It's obvious as day when people are annoyed with your kid and as this mother said, if that was the case she would've taken her kid out. And sure, their first hunch was the thrown containers but I wouldn't take it seriously either because a 'reasonable person' doesn't assume that business owners are raging lunatics. Especially if there is no signs of annoyance from others around. Several posters on this thread defended the owner's actions because they said the parents didn't leave when asked. Now it turns out that they sat there for forty minutes waiting for their food and nobody asked them to leave during that time. The first sign of being asked to leave was having containers thrown at them after they were paying customers in the middle of their meal. At first I thought the parents were irresponsible but now that I've read their side of the story I actually think they were more justified than I realized. And even IF they weren't, it still brings us back to what I've been arguing the whole time - take it up with the parents, your paying customers with the developed brain capable of understanding verbal communication. Better yet, ask them to take their kid out to calm down instead of throwing containers at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 To you, crying 2 year old = rotten = people have a right to yell STFU to the kid. To me, crying kid = typical 2 year old = no right to yell at the toddler but perhaps ask the parents to leave and escort them if necessary. A compromise: all kids are rotten at various times regardless of age. So are their idiotic parents who do nothing to control their own child when out in public. At times said rotten child and parents collude in such a way as to deserve to be called out for their rotten ways. But this is so rare because most parents are considerate of those around them that it does not get to the point where a stranger has to behave in such a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I've gotten up and just left restaurants before without paying if someones ill mannered little spawn cannot control themselves. Parents today are more interested in being the childs friend then an actual parent. That is the biggest problem I see. Punishing the restaurant for the behaviour of other patrons is a Class-A dick move. Way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 The mother has written a column. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/22/im-the-mom-whose-encounter-with-an-angry-maine-diner-owner-went-viral-heres-what-happened/ I’ll never forget the look of fear on my baby’s face. It was then that I turned to my daughter and said calmly, “This is exactly how I’m raising you not to be.” We then paid the bill, tipped the waitress 25 percent and left. I thought that was that. But after I left a Facebook post about my experience on the Marcy’s Diner page, Neugebauer responded with a nasty, profanity-laden attack where she called my baby an “IT,” a beast and a rotten child. News outlets picked it up, and the story quickly spread. All of a sudden, thousands of strangers were commenting on my parenting skills. What got lost is that it’s never okay to yell at a baby, especially if you own a restaurant. You should care about providing good service to their patrons. Neugebauer could have come over politely and told us our baby was disruptive. She should not have thrown things or yelled or cursed. I like how she throws in that she gave a 25% tip. Complete she said, she said. But her philosophy is that you can't yell at a kid. I find that to be completely unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) This new generation believes in a different kind of parenting techniques than I have used in the past. The new method seems to be discussion, explanation, negotiation, time outs and other psychological approaches. Hitting, yelling and aggressive pointing is also out. I do not understand this approach. It may very well be a "better" technique than the old ways - it may not. When I was bringing up my children I had no time and certainly no patience to negotiate behaviour or discuss positive or negative aspects of a behaviour. It was pretty simple - doing this is wrong and if you do it again you are going to get wacked. It worked. They are now all stable professionals with their own families - although they seem to be into the "new" approaches. Before you jump on our "archaic" behaviour modification techniques, - spanking was never done in anger and I always made sure that the child knew the reason for the punishment. Momma was the "good cop" and daddy was the "bad cop" who would apply the appropriate punishment when he came home from work. We were able to take our children to visit anyone because we knew how they would behave and our hosts would never have to get into having to parent our children. When in situations with strangers, we tried to make sure that our children's behaviour would never irritate those in the proximity. Participation in public events was not a right but a privilege to be bestowed only when the child knew and practiced their manners. Yes, this was the old days. I have no doubt that there are probably psychological studies which show that some damage was done to some children because of corporal punishment. I await to see the psychological studies in a few years which evaluate the affect of the "new" approach to parenting. I am surprised and disappointed on the amount of time, talking and effort that my children spend practicing the "new" parenting approach on my grandchildren - but nothing should surprise me any more. Edited July 24, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Punishing the restaurant for the behaviour of other patrons is a Class-A dick move. Way to go. Maybe the restaurant will learn to educate their patrons on how to dine in public. So may people don't know how to dine in public properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada_First Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Jeez no, you wouldn't want a parent being a friend to their kid. I guess you reckon better to smack 'em up side the head a few times and show 'em who's boss eh? Damn right! Parents today are raising their children without any structure or discipline at all and then wondering why they have whinging brats for children who cannot cope with rejection. It's because the parents give them everything and the kid has never been told NO before. I was hit with the belt growing up when I was bad as were many kids from my age group and I turned out fine and well balanced. Spare the rod... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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