Alberta Separatism

[Bakunin]

trudeau and chretiens were alike, i can't stand the liberal party they formed. Too bad pearson didn't stay prime minister a few more years.

[Cartman]

The NEP was introduced at the worst possible time. An incredible number of people lost their jobs and the PM was not listening to Western Premiers. Though I do not relish in the fact that he is dead, his behaviour was terrible. Lougheed nearly turned off the taps.

[idealisttotheend]

So now we have the two necessary myths to this movement.

1) the myth that one region has political and cultural traditions that are homogeneous

"We in the West think....."

"We in the West want....."

"We in the West believe......."

2) the victimhood myth

"the NEP caused X number of Albertans (note: no longer the "West") to lose their jobs/livelihood/pride and was horribly hard on us"

"Trudeau gave "us" the finger (sniff, sniff)"

This is so very predictable.

[Big Blue Machine]

The finger incident with Trudeau. The feeling was mutual too. If Alberta became a country, they wouldn't have the beliefs of free-trade, they would have to re-negotiate a deal.

[idealisttotheend]

Lougheed nearly turned off the taps.

Mr. Lougheed signed off on the NEP though it didn't help him much in Alberta politically.

The finger incident with Trudeau

Mr. Treduea gave a hell of a lot of people the finger (literally or figuratively) in his long life. The "West" ought not feel special. The incident in question was Mr. Tredeau giving a small group of farmers the finger as they were calling him names (I believe). How this became the entire West is beyond me.

trudeau was an arrogant, dishonest man, and loved power, he didn't like compromise. The perfect liberal politician...

Tredeau was arrogant and had a big ego but he was not dishonest and he most often annoyed people by standing for what he believed in no matter the cost. This is a quality we have in short supply in this day and age.

[Bakunin]

Tredeau was arrogant and had a big ego but he was not dishonest and he most often annoyed people by standing for what he believed in no matter the cost. This is a quality we have in short supply in this day and age.

I agree he stand for what he think, and in other terms we can call that arrogance. You can say this is a quality but im not sure. Sadam and bush stand for what they beleive too.

But he was dishonest just like chretiens and all the scandals. He said before the 1st referendum that things would change and nothing changed, in fact it became even worst. He used the grc or the secret service i dont know the english name, against his political enemy. the constitution and many other things.

[Big Blue Machine]

Trudeau did give us the constituiton to his credit. But he did also give us the HUGE deficit during the great recession of the 1980s. He made MPs into "nobodies". He didn't let Newfoundland have the natural rescoures that they had off-shore. He said it was a part of Canada, not Newfoundland. In 1980, he only won 2 seats in the West, (and there were Manitoba, in franchone areas).

[Big Blue Machine]

By the way, saying that you're glag someone's dead is horrible. That's like Hilter saying "I'm glad the Jews are dead"

[Stoker]

So now we have the two necessary myths to this movement.

1) the myth that one region has political and cultural traditions that are homogeneous

"We in the West think....."

"We in the West want....."

"We in the West believe......."

2) the victimhood myth

"the NEP caused X number of Albertans (note: no longer the "West") to lose their jobs/livelihood/pride and was horribly hard on us"

"Trudeau gave "us" the finger (sniff, sniff)"

This is so very predictable.

I've got an idea......Myself and others have outlined why it is we want the west out of Canada numerous times. So my question to those opposed to Western Seperation:

Why should we stay a part of Canada? What are we (as in the West) getting out of the deal?

[Cartman]

Hmmm...I have always held a measure of admiration for Trudeau but he was a jerk much of the time. Take a read of Memoirs and this becomes apparent.

When I referred to Albertans losing their jobs, I was trying to get across to people who did not live in Alberta the extent of devastation that took place here overnight. There were reports of people losing farms that had been held for generations and men who would lie to their wives that they still held good jobs. I did not vote Conservative, but if you want to understand why over 81% of the voters in my riding did, you have to understand the anger in reaction to the NEP. It was not just greed (reaction to NEP), it was a kick in the head after being beat.

Where else in this country do people vote so homogenously regardless of stripe (PC ->Alliance->Cons)?Like it or not, this is the reality.

[I miss Reagan]

By the way, saying that you're glag someone's dead is horrible. That's like Hilter saying "I'm glad the Jews are dead"

Oh really how exactly? You must be liberal. Liberals consistently like to smear people they disagree with by calling them "Hitler" or refering to them as "Nazi's".

[maplesyrup]

Middle-finger salute example of Trudeau's frankness

Funny, the people Trudeau gave the finger to, were not upset.

[ticker]

maplesyrup you still didn't answer with facts about the NEP. to try and say finger salute was misinterpreted does not address the bad economics of the NEP

[ticker]

By the way, saying that you're glag someone's dead is horrible. That's like Hilter saying "I'm glad the Jews are dead"

Oh really how exactly? You must be liberal. Liberals consistently like to smear people they disagree with by calling them "Hitler" or refering to them as "Nazi's".

i guess that is just more of that liberal selective thinking.

I can demonize the right but don't criticize emperor Trudeau the God

[caesar]

I can sum up Alberta whiners philosophy this way (as my daddy used to say): "what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own." self centered and selfish.

[Stoker]

I can sum up Alberta whiners philosophy this way (as my daddy used to say): "what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own." self centered and selfish.

Please explain further, and perhaps provide an example.

[Cartman]

I am not sure why Albertans are considered annoying "whiners" when complaints about federal government policies are made but everything is fine when the BQ and PQ intentionally try to break up the country and make federalism impossible. Am I the only one who thinks as much? "The West wants in" but as the BQ/PQ like to say "Quebec wants out".

Greed may have something to do with anger in Alberta, but a devastated economy which helped to place the Ontario economy on the mend were the key variables. Combined with the symbolism of the PM giving the finger (and I do not care why he did this...it was unbecoming of any politician), generated regional politics in this Province.

We have had PC rule for 33 years in this Province! 33 years and they show no sign of let up!!! There is and has been no opposition at all regardless of what the Premier does. During the last election, too many people voted against a party rather than voting in favour of something.

[I miss Reagan]

I can sum up Alberta whiners philosophy this way (as my daddy used to say): "what's yours is mine and what's mine is my own." self centered and selfish.

No I think that better fits Ontario. "We are entitled to take what is yours and squander it as we please"

Albertans are of the most selfless and compassionate people in Canada. We take care of our homeless better than anyone. We don't tax anyone who makes under 30,000. We volunteer more time than anyone in Canada. Just because we don't want our money to be wasted by you people doesn't make us selfish. You need to get over your sense of entitlement.

[caesar]

QUOTE: "We take care of our homeless better than anyone. We don't tax anyone who makes under 30,000."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes we heard how Klien looked after Alberta's homeless a few years back. Give them one way tickets to BC. Besides it is too cold to be homeless in Alberta.

As for not taxing anyone who makes under 30,000; I don't believe that. However, if it is true; start taxing them moderately and you can easily fund your own health care.

[Big Blue Machine]

Alberta should do what it wants with its heath care

[Stoker]

Alberta should do what it wants with its heath care

Not just Alberta, but all provinces......remeber, Alberta doesn't want special status, just equal status.

[Big Blue Machine]

Fair enough

[caesar]

Of course, Alberta wants special status. Albertans think they are special; otherwise why all the temper tantrums because their chosen party was not the one chosen by Canadians to lead the country. Just because they are now a "Have" province; they do not want to share any of their wealth.

[willy]

Ceasar, when was the last time they were a have not province.

They are special, they have no debt. This is what 60 years of Conservative rule can accomplish. Isn't it beautiful?

[takeanumber]

1957 I believe.

And only because the Federal government gave them an exemption from equalization (they wern't subject to clawback as NS and NF are.)

Anyway...

Albertans, by and large, are selfish. It's just in their nature.

In part, it has a lot to do with the NEP. The NEP literally ruined thousands of people overnight.

I don't think people in the East really understand that.

The problem with Alberta is that this selfishness is hyper-extended, to the point where they become anti-social mobility.

They say, on one hand, that if you work hard enough, you can make it anywhere, but say, from the other side of their mouth, that those who work hard shouldn't be allowed to work their way out of the gutter because the world needs ditch diggers.

The distinguising feature of an Albertan is the desire to hunt down a vaporize anybody who dares to point out this contradiction.

When it comes to the charity of Albertans, it's truly pathetic. Calgary and Edmonton's corporate community are very long on self-congratulatory praise for their genorisity, but astonishlingly short on actually supporting the community at large. The constant back patting by its citizens is equally sickening.

I refuse to pad my resume with my volunteer experience. Sadly though, in Alberta, padding is often the sole motivation behind volunteering.

There are other aspects of Albertan culture which I'd love to expand upon, but I'll spare.

The dynamism of business in Alberta though is false. Largely, you have immigrants and a few third-generation Albertans who actually do work really hard for their money, but most of it, especially in the petro-sector, is all government corporatism at its worse. I can only imagine the kind of Enron-esque sleave that's going on downtown. But I believe it is happening given the close relationship between the Alberta Government, downtown Calgary, and the Alberta Securities Board.

One thing is for certain: if it wasn't for the real, hardworking business elite and emigrant entrepreneurial class in Alberta, the province would be a shadow of itself.

Alberta succeeds in spite of the efforts of big business and those who reside in Mount Royal.