Alberta Separatism

[Stoker]

First, differences in political opinions are not indicative of significant cultural differences.

Whats one of the main reasons that Quebec wants to leave? Isn't it to preserve their Culture?

Second, and as I've pointed out elsewhere, more westerners voted against the Cons than for, and more Ontario residents voted Con than last time. Exaggerated regional voting patterns are a product of the system, not of any real schism of cultural values or political beliefs.

Then explain why the vast majority of Ridings within Alberta went Conservative, Quebec went Bloc, and Ontario went Liberal........then explain how cultural values or political beliefs are not one in the same.....

That said, I reiterate: I recognize the federalist system as it currently stands is flawed. But it requires rational thinking and cooperation, not reactionary temper tantrums.

One persons's temper tantrums, is another person standing up for themselves.......if your happy rolling over onto your back for the East.....thats fine by me.

I remember how, during the height of Meech Lake and the constitutional debate, Albertans largely regarded Quebec's nationalistic aspirations with disdain. Funny how, the same province that once dismissed Quebec as spoiled whiners are trying the same duds on for size.

Damn straight we want to try on the "same duds"......why wouldn't we, they bloody well work. Regardless, I'm still in favour of leaving Canada since it's apparent that we won't ever get an equal say within it.

Rather than separation, however, I think a far better solution would be if you and your whiny cohorts (who would be lucky to get 15 per cent of Alberta's population behind your wrongheaded, quixotic scheme) just pack up and go somewhere else, like the backwoods of the U.S. Bible belt, where your political and social notions are more likely to be accepted than here in Canada.

It may be more or less then 15%.......I don't know and it doesn't really mater yet, because we will have to wait until Quebec leaves first so as to show the majority of Westerners that sovereignty is a possibility.

I also tend to think that the new federal government is going to further alienate the west and add more fuel to the separatist fire........thanks Pauly

As I said: if you hate it here, you're free to move elsewhere.

Nah, we don't need to move, we just need to wait until Quebec seperates.

[I miss Reagan]

I remember how, during the height of Meech Lake and the constitutional debate, Albertans largely regarded Quebec's nationalistic aspirations with disdain. Funny how, the same province that once dismissed Quebec as spoiled whiners are trying the same duds on for size.

No you are mistaken, Quebec wanted distinct society status, more rights than everyone else. We just want everyone else to have the same rights as everyone else. But ya I know that's selfish whining to want equality.

just pack up and go somewhere else, like the backwoods of the U.S. Bible belt, where your political and social notions are more likely to be accepted than here in Canada.

Ah more clues as to your thought process, you're anti-religion too.

As a matter of fact I do. But then, as an Albertan, feelings of superiority come easy when one is surrounded by ignorant rednecks.

How is it that you are not supercilious?

(Traitor is also a strange epitheth to toss from someone who's handle pays tribute to a foreign ruler)

I guess that would imply that the United States is our enemy. (Although I'm sure you consider Americans and especially Republican Americans our enemy) Besides I never knew that appreciating a foreign leader would be considered treason. I'm sure you appreciate the likes of say Che or Mandela.

Because people like you are the minority. A vocal and annoying one, but a minority nonetheless. i like this province (though there's plenty about it I despise). I also like this country (even though nationalism of any stripe is irrational and, well, silly). And I'd rather see positive solutions, not destructive ones. 

As much as you try to play with numbers, somehow trying to make yourself feel better, creating this false reality that the west is liberal it's not. I think you are the one who should leave this "island of stupidity" as you put it. If you're so much more enlightened than the rest of us here, you leave. Go east to be with like minded folks and enjoy your taxes and pat yourself on the back for bettering humanity.

I like Alberta. I think it is a great medium between socialist canada and the problems the US faces. I like our gun laws as they are, I like two tiered health care, I like our beliefs in the free market system, I like our compassionate conservatism. We'll leave we'll just take what is ours with us.

[noelandmero]

As I said: if you hate it here, you're free to move elsewhere.

We will and we will take our ignorant, cavemen citizenry with us and our province and our capitalist swine money too. You can then sit in you’re workers paradise and call us hicks if you like; although, I would have thought do to you’re obvious intellectual superiority that might be beneath you. I mean don't all the Albertans on this board need a name tag so they can spell there own names.

[I miss Reagan]

We will and we will take our ignorant, cavemen citizenry with us and our province and our capitalist swine money too. You can then sit in you’re workers paradise and call us hicks if you like; although, I would have thought do to you’re obvious intellectual superiority that might be beneath you. I mean don't all the Albertans on this board need a name tag so they can spell there own names.

Easy, I think he likes our money.

[caesar]

GOOD BYE. LEAVE; WHO CARES. We will survive; but will your little country

[Stoker]

GOOD BYE. LEAVE; WHO CARES. We will survive; but will your little country

I'm sure we (as in the West) will leave or will be in the motion of leaving by the middle of next decade.....don't worry caesar.

One question for you though caesar, after Quebec leaves and the rest of Confederation falls apart, which would you choose?

A) A sovereign country made up of the formor western Canadian provinces

-OR-

B ) assimilation with the United States

???

[caesar]

You are not the West. BC is the West and I have not heard of anyone here who wishes to leave Canada. I know you would like to use our ports but sorry. We are now an official "have not " province; you wouldn't want us to tag along. So, goodbye, so long, farewell. Parting is such sweet sorrow. You will need all the oil to keep you warm..

I believe we would be very content to remain a part of Canada. United we stand; divided you fall. Would you like me to pack your bags. I am tired of your Alberta whining; you are outdoing Quebec.

[Stoker]

I live on the Left Coast of Vancouver Island........Doug Christie (founder of Western Canada Concept) lives in Victoria

[Cartman]

I think that regional alienation is a major problem, but let's face it guys, Alberta will never leave Canada because there are simply too many patriots here. They just get really angry when Quebec sep. gets too much attention. I wonder if PR may be a way to reduce alientation. Maybe Maple is right.

[noelandmero]

I think that regional alienation is a major problem, but let's face it guys, Alberta will never leave Canada because there are simply too many patriots here. They just get really angry when Quebec sep. gets too much attention. I wonder if PR may be a way to reduce alientation. Maybe Maple is right.

You are probably correct in this assement Cartman but a triple e senate is the only way to fix it. It is also a proven concept as it is what helps keep the US together. As States like Alaska have two senators and 1 rep were as california has 2 senators and 55 reps. So Alska still has a say in government because there is both rep by region and population. No alienation problems.

[August1991]

We are now an official "have not " province; you wouldn't want us to tag along. So, goodbye, so long, farewell. Parting is such sweet sorrow. You will need all the oil to keep you warm..

Is this Plan C? Keep Canada together by sarcasm?

[Stoker]

You are probably correct in this assement Cartman but a triple e senate is the only way to fix it. It is also a proven concept as it is what helps keep the US together. As States like Alaska have two senators and 1 rep were as california has 2 senators and 55 reps. So Alska still has a say in government because there is both rep by region and population. No alienation problems.

Ontario and/or Quebec will never allow a 3E Senate, because they will never vote in a Conservative party to a majority that is in favor of Senate reform and the only way to change that, is with a 3E Senate........all that we are doing is "chasing our tales" so to speak.......which leaves us (as in the West) with only one positive choice.......Sovereignty.

[caesar]

"Is this Plan C? Keep Canada together by sarcasm? "

Sarcasm; nope. I am tired of their whining. If they are so dead set on leaving; just go. What would you have us do. Cajole and beg them to stay? Forget it. However, I don't really believe that the separatism whiners here are the real majority view of Albertans.

They are probably young and have a lot to learn. I do understand that Alberta has a large American population and the most pro American feeling of anywhere in Canada.

I just want to get on with concentrating on rebuilding Canada's good health care system. We have a lot to be proud of in Canada. We are a relatively small (population wise) country and still quite young but we have still lots of valuable resources and we still have a great reputation as a country that tries to deal in good faith.

However if Harper ever becomes Prime Minister; I may re-evaluate my feelings on BC separating.

[Stoker]

Sarcasm; nope. I am tired of their whining. If they are so dead set on leaving; just go. What would you have us do. Cajole and beg them to stay? Forget it. However, I don't really believe that the separatism whiners here are the real majority view of Albertans.

As I said, the " {Western} separatism whiners" numbers don't mater as of yet........nothing will happen until Quebec is on it's marry way and what we know as Canada today starts to fall apart........

They are probably young and have a lot to learn. I do understand that Alberta has a large American population and the most pro American feeling of anywhere in Canada.

Young.....sure.......lot's to learn.......perhaps.......in a better postion to acheive goals based on the fact that we have youth, and the associated "staying power" that comes with it........damn straight........

[noelandmero]

Not only am I not young as a gurantee I have seen more of this world and lived in more countries than you even know exist. I have lived in socialist countries have you? Have you ever lived in the US? Come down off youre high horse and quit insulting people open youre mind some right ideas are not bad just as some left ideas are good.

[Cartman]

Nolandmero...what are you talking about? According to I miss Reagan we already live in a socialist country.

[noelandmero]

That is the sad thing Canada has just about the perfect mix give her a nudge to the right and she could be a country where the poor do not starve and hard work can really pay off.

[caesar]

Canada is just fine the way she is. Well respected and compassionate. There is more to life than who has the most money. That is what seems to preoccupy the Albertan separatists. Money, money, money.

American wannabees.

Greed and selfishness only leads to others resentment.

I think we have a fairly good balance here in Canada.

I would like to see the Federal Government take over ALL control of Health Care and put an end to all the games being played. The Provinces will never stop trying to pry as much money as they can from Ottawa. They will not even try to make the Health Care system work. It is used as a tool to ask for more money. There is just as much waste and corruption in our provincial governments as in the Federal Government.

If Cuba can have universal Health Care that works; Canada certainly should be able to. Having it spread out among the provinces just means duplication of services and money siphoned off for more patronage jobs for the local political appointees.

I have no problem with charging user fees to those who overuse and abuse the system. Everyone tries their best to get as much money out of the government coffers as possible. It is our (taxpayers) money; quit wasting it.

[noelandmero]

You ever been to Cuba and I don't mean in a resort? I think not. But if You think it is so wonderful over there do everyone a favor and move rasie the collective IQ's of both countries.

[Stoker]

Canada is just fine the way she is. Well respected and compassionate. There is more to life than who has the most money. That is what seems to preoccupy the Albertan separatists. Money, money, money.

American wannabees.

Who are we respected by? How are we compassionate?

We are not even in the top twenty in terms of manpower provided towards the United Nations peacekeeping efforts and we are still a large supplier of arms to the third world.......... How's that respectful and/or compassionate?

The Left is quite content to leave out the ugly parts of Canada's forgeign policy.............

As for the "Bling Bling", social programs are not free

[noelandmero]

As for the "Bling Bling", social programs are not free 

Sure they are the feds grow money on trees and if the government provides the service they are paying for which makes it free.

And as a great man once Said "Socialism is like a dream. Sooner or later you wake up to reality. "

[Stoker]

And a Great Women once said:

"Good Conservatives always pay their bills. And on time. Not like the Socialists who run up other people's bills."

[caesar]

"You ever been to Cuba and I don't mean in a resort? I think not. But if You think it is so wonderful over there do everyone a favor and move rasie the collective IQ's of both countries. "

Do you write English; what are you talking about at the end. What's a rasie????

No, I have not been to Cuba. My brother and his wife were in Cuba. No, it was not in some resort. They were there on a farm/ranch tour as he is a rancher. They found the people poor but happy and very friendly.

It could hrive if it were allowed to trade freely wih the USA. The USA does do some "humanitarian"

trade with Cuba. (Poultry; but only after they saw how well Canada was doing trading there)

[Michael Hardner]

That is the sad thing Canada has just about the perfect mix give her a nudge to the right and she could be a country where the poor do not starve and hard work can really pay off.

I'll say this much: Canadians as a group are aching for better management of the existing systems, even if they're reluctant to embrace radical change.

This is the story behind the government of Mike Harris. The results of the PC government were mixed, but the promise of better management was what got them elected.

[maplesyrup]

And a Great Women once said:

"Good Conservatives always pay their bills. And on time. Not like the Socialists who run up other people's bills."

Sounds more like a dumb woman. Did your great woman mean like George Bush, Mike Harris, and Brian Mulroney with their huge deficits? Pleeeeease give us all a break and can the nonsense about all those shopworn, tired, and old myths. I don't think any one group of people in society have a corner on the correct way of doing things. All groups have something to contribute.

When my Mom was going through my Dad's papers after he died, she came across a note he had written to himself (a bit sexist, but whatever) which said:

"What happens after a man dies? He stops paying the bills."