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Alberta Separatism


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Be fair, MS. Everybody ran deficits back then.

Just as the right in Canada has evolved to understand the necessity of socialized health care, the left has evolved to realize that imprudent economics hurt us all.

Remember that Tommy Douglas once said "debts and deficits only make the banks rich".

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All I'm saying is that deficits are NOT the special domain of the left, the right, including the recent right (Bush, Harris), are just as good at it.

And part of the problem when the left gets into power is that the corrupt business community (Enron, etc.), instead of working with the left, does everything possible to make things look as bad as possible.

Maybe with Jack Layton the New Democrats will create sound economic policies. For example we do need to address the deficit at some point. My preference would be that at least something goes towards it every year until it is abolished.

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Sounds more like a dumb woman. Did your great woman mean like George Bush, Mike Harris, and Brian Mulroney with their huge deficits? Pleeeeease give us all a break and can the nonsense about all those shopworn, tired, and old myths. I don't think any one group of people in society have a corner on the correct way of doing things. All groups have something to contribute.

:lol: I guess your right, all those successful socialists

countries make your statement ring true eh MS......

And part of the problem when the left gets into power is that the corrupt business community (Enron, etc.), instead of working with the left, does everything possible to make things look as bad as possible.

And why do you think the "evil, capitalists pigs within the business community" don't work well with a socialist government? It's out of fear of being nationalized, unionized and taxed to death........Which ever pinko it was that said the capitalists would sell to the commies the rope with which to hang themselves with, was dead wrong.

Maybe with Jack Layton the New Democrats will create sound economic policies. For example we do need to address the deficit at some point. My preference would be that at least something goes towards it every year until it is abolished.

Somthing just doesn't compute when Layton, the NDP and sound economic policies are mentioned within the same sentence.

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stoker.......what's your definition of a socialist country? Please give us a few examples. Just not sure what you are talking about.

A country with a socialist goverment :rolleyes:

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Sweden circa 1980s..........North Korea/Cuba.......and any Labour Government within the United Kingdom for example all contain(ed) various shades of Red

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Sweden circa 1980s..........North Korea/Cuba.......and any Labour Government within the United Kingdom for example all contain(ed) various shades of Red

The reason I was asking is that in Canada (apart from the political science department at the University of Calgary :lol: ), we do not equate socialism with communism. I think they do in the USA though.

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The reason I was asking is that in Canada we do not equate socialism with communism. I think they do in the USA though.

It's all relative.........isn't socialism just communism "in progress" or "under consruction" so to speak?

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You mean if you have a toke of marijuana, the next thing is you will be addicted to heroin, eh?

Some do. And some is too many.

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So do you believe in prohibition then for marijuana?

I think it should be decriminalized, but like communism, the best solution is to educate people against it.

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Some do. And some is too many.
What's that supposed to mean?

Of people who breathe air, some become heroin addicts. Is that some too many?

Stoker, the government has many legitimate reasons for getting involved in the lives of people. I even think the government has the legitimate right to steal from the rich and give to the poor. I don't think that this makes the government "socialist".

If the government taxes you and hires schoolteachers, does that mean it's socialist? Will this eventually lead to the government forcing you to work where it decides?

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Stoker, the government has many legitimate reasons for getting involved in the lives of people. I even think the government has the legitimate right to steal from the rich and give to the poor. I don't think that this makes the government "socialist".

I disagree, unless in the most extreme cases, the Government should not become involved with the day to day lives of people.

As for stealing from the rich to give to the poor, what are those legitimate rights? I agree with Taxation, but not nationlization.

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I disagree, unless in the most extreme cases, the Government should not become involved with the day to day lives of people.
I agree that the least government is the best government. But that does not mean no government. So, what should the government get involved in?
As for stealing from the rich to give to the poor, what are those legitimate rights? I agree with Taxation, but not nationlization.
The rich pay more in tax than the poor but both get to drive on roads built with those taxes. I'd call that stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Is it more obvious if the tax money is used to subsidize public transport?
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The rich pay more in tax than the poor but both get to drive on roads built with those taxes. I'd call that stealing from the rich and giving to the poor "

Not really. Some people use the roads much more than others. The poor, generally, would not have the gas money or even bus fare to do much travelling. The rich generally make more personal and business use of roads.

Not alwasy but only a generalization.

It is NOT stealing, in any case.

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I agree that the least government is the best government. But that does not mean no government. So, what should the government get involved in?

I never said no government, I said that "unless in the most extreme cases, the Government should not become involved with the day to day lives of people". Remember Government is there to serve us, not the other way around.

I don't mind at all having the government there to protect us, maintain the roads etc, but government shouldn't be dipping into business, childcare or dictating values to individuals...........which brings us back to the preceived threat that Quebec feels and the West is starting to feel from Eastern Canada.......

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I agree that the least government is the best government. But that does not mean no government. So, what should the government get involved in?

I never said no government, I said that "unless in the most extreme cases, the Government should not become involved with the day to day lives of people". Remember Government is there to serve us, not the other way around.

I don't mind at all having the government there to protect us, maintain the roads etc, but government shouldn't be dipping into business, childcare or dictating values to individuals...........which brings us back to the preceived threat that Quebec feels and the West is starting to feel from Eastern Canada.......

Do you not think that one of the roles of government is to regulate business excesses?

And why shouldn't the government get involved in a child care program? Don't you think that children will be better protected if the child care industry has to follow high standards?

I think what you mean when you say the West, is actually a small enclave around the University of Calgary. :lol:

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The poor, generally, would not have the gas money or even bus fare to do much travelling.
The poor buy products delivered by trucks which drive on roads. Those products might be medicine critical for life.
Not alwasy but only a generalization.
My point too.
It is NOT stealing, in any case.
Not stealing? You and I go to a restaurant and order the same meal at a cost of 10 bucks each. At the cash register, I reach into your wallet and take out a five. You pay 15 and I pay 5. That's not theft?

Why did I do it? You have blue eyes. Or, you are smarter. Or, you have a better education. Now it's not theft. It's "fairness".

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Yup, that's stealing. but what's a few bucks between friends, eh? ;)

Actually the real stealing that goes on is for the big bucks which our politicians do for the tax accountant looby on behalf of their rich clients. The tax loopholes are unbelievable, and if Canadians realized how little tax the wealthy paid, we would probably have a revolution. :rolleyes:

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Stoker:

Remember Government is there to serve us, not the other way around.
I agree 100%. IMV, too many Canadians are children.
I don't mind at all having the government there to protect us, maintain the roads etc,
WTF? "etc" What do you mean by "etc"?

Should the government pay compensation to ranchers? Is that in the "etc"? What about a satellite to study the environment? Etc? Research for the satellite? Also etc? How about the design and orgainization of a universal pension scheme? Another "etc"? Where do you draw the line, Stoker, between roads and gun registries?

government shouldn't be dipping into business, childcare or dictating values to individuals
So, government should never have subsidized the Tar Sands or Hibernia? (Business)

Six year old kids with alcoholic parents should play on the street rather than go to school? (Daycare)

People who smoke cigarettes should not be reminded that their habit is bad and costly to society? (Dictating values)

I generally agree with you Stoker, but the choices are not black and white. There is too much "I'm right; you're wrong. I win; you lose."

Dramatic confrontation is black and white. Win/lose.

IME, human interaction, trading and indeed life itself are not like that at all.

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"Six year old kids with alcoholic parents should play on the street rather than go to school? (Daycare)"

No, those children should be put into foster homes not daycare. Putting these children in daycare would just allow these parents more freedom to drink; at night the child would still be neglected or abused.

I do not believe this is why national daycare is wanted,

Daycare is just a subsidy to working parents.

Why should I pay for for babysitters for your children.

If you want to have children, take the responsibility and raise them yourselves.

We have government subsidized daycare in BC. As soon as the government cut the subsidy; the daycare centers emptied out and are now running well below capacity and may need to close.

I think parents should be encouraged to have at least one parent stay home and raise their own children; at least until they start school.

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"People who smoke cigarettes should not be reminded that their habit is bad and costly to society? (Dictating values)"

No more so than people who drink alcohol and endanger others lives by drinking and driving or abusive actions (wife or child beating or just generally beligerent to the public). Why is cigarette smoking suddenly so much worse than those who drink and drive. Just very politically correct to criticize those who smoke and a good excuse for a tax grab.

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Should the government pay compensation to ranchers? Is that in the "etc"? What about a satellite to study the environment? Etc? Research for the satellite? Also etc? How about the design and orgainization of a universal pension scheme? Another "etc"? Where do you draw the line, Stoker, between roads and gun registries?

I think the "etc" should be decided on a case by case basis don't you? Also, many of the "etc" can still be regulated by the government to be kept at a standard demanded by the people, but delivered by the private sector (ie Healthcare and Post secondary education).

So, government should never have subsidized the Tar Sands or Hibernia? (Business)

IMHO, most corporate wealthfare is a bad thing.......but in the case of the Tar Sands or Hibernia, were they not given money to get off the ground and are now going on their own momentum? As opposed to Air Canada that is given money to stay off the ground?

I don't mind my money going in the form of a low intrest loan to something that will be used to start growth in any given sector, where the line must be drawn is when public money is keeping that sector afloat.

Six year old kids with alcoholic parents should play on the street rather than go to school? (Daycare)

Why should I pay for an endless loop that is deadbeat parents..........put the kids up for adoption and the parents in jail.

People who smoke cigarettes should not be reminded that their habit is bad and costly to society? (Dictating values)

Other then in the case of youth, why should the government be telling adults whats bad for them and whats good for them.......sink or swim......learn accountability. Thats not to say that I'm against taxing the hell out of "Luxury" items mind you.

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