The Bible

[betsy]

Here we see the Wendyosaurus in its natural habitat. When confronted with predetory raptor dinosaurs, the Wendyosaurus launches into a babble of jibberish she hopes will confuse them. Unfortunately, the raptors know just where to strike and have evolved the talons to ensure the job is done quickly.

Awesome that we thought along the same lines! Yours is so convoluted though...and not descriptively correct.

Wendysaurus does not flee....she shoots out a piercing tongue that un-erringly hits bulls-eye!

You described the raptors correctly though....they usually come out in packs because they feel strength in numbers!

And they're the ones who gets into jibberish chatters - so very monkey-like when they all get excited - like when a Wendysaurus shoots out her tongue at one of them.

And unfortunately, they have serious problems (which makes it easy for any Wendysaurus).

These raptors got poor eyesight, hearing problems, prone to confusion (their reasonings depict it).

They may have evolved the talons....but unfortunately, they're so flimsy and weak!

And on top of that, they cannot aim straight!

Like this one:

But they are polytheists...your god was not involved.

And this ones:

Who says Christians are correct? Who says Muslims are correct? Who says any faith is correct? Just because a book says so? The Hindu Holy Book outdates the Bible by a thousand years, so why is it wrong? Buddhism is older than Christianity, so why is it wrong? Why are the writings of an obscure tribe (the Jews) in a desert backwater supposedly the "real word of God"? There is NO proof ANY one of the myriad of holy books in this world is the correct one with all the answers.

Yup...it is the height of conceit.

And this!

Oddly...that doesn't provoke a fear response in me while evolution and science have you wanting to burn witches.

All their poison spits miss the mark!

They are the anomaly in evolution!

My version is more aptly descriptive of what a prey feels like when he senses the Predator exists.....and He's getting closer. Woooooo----He's coming.....

Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

He's coming...

Why wait?

[msj]

yada-yada-yada. Hichens = Dawkins! Nothing surprising there!

Speaking of plagiariaze - - it is science that's been forced to plagiarize indeed! They have to use the word "stretch" to describe what the universe is doing!

And that's how it's been described in the Bible - at least 11 times!

Anyway, here....try to catch up! Check these two out so you'd understand what I mean by "plagiarism!"

FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE page 4 post#49

FACT:

EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED! page 7; post #94

Yet no mention of Adam and Eve riding dinosaurs... strange.

Edited May 28, 2011 by msj

[betsy]

Yet no mention of Adam and Eve riding dinosaurs... strange.

<sing-song> You're misssinnnggg the maaaaark.....la-la-la-di-dah...

[GostHacked]

Here we see the Wendyosaurus in its natural habitat. When confronted with predetory raptor dinosaurs, the Wendyosaurus launches into a babble of jibberish she hopes will confuse them. Unfortunately, the raptors know just where to strike and have evolved the talons to ensure the job is done quickly.

Well, in order to make her point, the font does go up to 72pt. She might get her point across better if she does the internet equivellant of yelling.

[Jack Weber]

Also, what of statues of Jesus, Mary and all the Saints? Aren't those idols?

Take that up with the Vatican...

[msj]

<sing-song> You're misssinnnggg the maaaaark.....la-la-la-di-dah...

Nice argumentative form!

It's strange that the dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the opening part of Genesis (you know, when god supposedly separates light from dark and makes man and woman etc) nor as being left behind when it comes to the preposterous story about Noah's ark.

But I guess you'd rather hold your hands over your ears and say "la-la-la-di-dah" and ignore it altogether.

[betsy]

Nice argumentative form!

Because you are not giving the appropriate argument on this thread. The arguments presented - facts posted - are the actual facts written in the Bible that's been supported and proven by science.

I put in front of you a big door that you may open it so you can come in.....instead, you choose to gain entry piddling around with a mouse hole and trying to fit your head in!

Instead of tackling the formally presented arguments head-on, you choose to swerve around them and pull up non-existent "arguments" of Adam and Eve "riding the dinosaur!"

That's what is meant by "missing the mark," and by my other comment on the preceding post, "....cannot aim straight."

It's strange that the dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the opening part of Genesis (you know, when god supposedly separates light from dark and makes man and woman etc) nor as being left behind when it comes to the preposterous story about Noah's ark.

Why should everything be crammed in the opening part of Genesis?

The huge significance of just these few facts are totally lost to you?

What about the opening 2 verses when the introduction to the universe was given? (time, space, matter, and energy)

What about the origin of man? Made from the dust of the earth!

What about the creation of one land and one ocean? Rodinia and Panthalassa!

Edited May 29, 2011 by betsy

[scouterjim]

I can take a child away from civilization, and raise them telling them that Harry Potter is a real story, and that Harry is a god. By the time that child is 6, they will believe it. THAT is what the Bible stories have don. Told over and over and over for generations, they have comne to be accepted (by some) as fact. There is still NO proof that the Bible stories are FACT.

[betsy]

There is still NO proof that the Bible stories are FACT.

Then obviously you disagree with science.

Andrew Parker, an evolutionist - from your own camp - went so far to say:

Amazingly, the precise wording of the Bible's first page, and the events inferred and the sequence with which they are placed, tells the story of life's history according to our current best scientific understanding.

Take these up with science and debunk these facts!

FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity.

FACT: The earth is round.

FACT: There is an incalculable number of stars.

FACT: Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea.

FACT: Invisible atoms, the building blocks

FACT: Noah’s Ark and Ship Building

FACT: “Many of the great scientists of the past who founded and developed the key disciplines of science were creationists!”

FACT: A finished creation.

FACT: The universe is deteriorating

FACT: The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning

FACT:: Existence of ocean currents

FACT: SCIENCE REMAINS BAFFLED!

FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE

FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle

FACT: PROPHECIES HAVE COME TRUE!

FACT:

EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED!”

FACT: Expression - "CURVATURE OF SPACE," still related to STRETCHING UNIVERSE

FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health

WOUND, SKIN and DISCHARGE PRECAUTIONS

FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health

WASTE DISPOSAL

FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health

DIAGNOSIS and ISOLATION

FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health

CORPSES and BURIAL PRECAUTIONS

FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health

FOOD and DRINKING WATER SAFETY

FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health

PROMISCUITY, UNLAWFUL LIFESTYLES and DISEASE

FACT: The human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements which are all found in the earth

FACT: BLOOD – THE RIVER OF LIFE

FACT: RODINIA and PANTHALASSA, One land and one ocean!

So unless you've got something with substance to say related to the presented arguments, I'll just leave you to express your feelings of denial without any interruptions from me. Vent away.

I understand..... it must be shocking.

Edited May 29, 2011 by betsy

[msj]

Because you are not giving the appropriate argument on this thread. The arguments presented - facts posted - are the actual facts written in the Bible that's been supported and proven by science.

I put in front of you a big door that you may open it so you can come in.....instead, you choose to gain entry piddling around with a mouse hole and trying to fit your head in!

Instead of tackling the formally presented arguments head-on, you choose to swerve around them and pull up non-existent "arguments" of Adam and Eve "riding the dinosaur!"

That's what is meant by "missing the mark," and by my other comment on the preceding post, "....cannot aim straight."

No, this is what's called setting the terms of reference to allow one to justify holding their hands over their head and sing "la-la-la-di-dah" rather than attempt an honest discussion.

Why should everything be crammed in the opening part of Genesis?

The huge significance of just these few facts are totally lost to you?

What about the opening 2 verses when the introduction to the universe was given? (time, space, matter, and energy)

What about the origin of man? Made from the dust of the earth!

What about the creation of one land and one ocean? Rodinia and Panthalassa!

Fact: the Bible completely misses the mark on dinosaurs because it was written by ignorant men trying to write down stories from a time when people could only tell stories verbally because most of the population was too ignorant to read and write.

Where are the dinosaurs?

If god formed Adam and Eve and the world all within the first 6 days then why are the dinosaurs not mentioned?

Why create such creatures (even as fossils - as if they never truly lived) and not mention them as part of the creation?

And, if they were not simply created as fossils because god was messing with "his" creations in "his" image, then why no mention of their exclusion from Noah's ark?

I mean, that would be the most logical place to have their extinction happen, would it not?

Or right, but god allegedly told Noah to "bring into the ark two of all the living creatures..." but, apparently, this excludes dinosaurs because they either weren't around for Noah to round up (I guess) or ...?

Well, who knows because there are no dinosaurs in the Bible for reasons we all know: humans were not created at the time the earth was created and dinosaurs preceded humans in the earth's history.

Contrary Genesis.

And the storytellers who told stories under the oral tradition were not aware of dinosaurs and even when some of these stories ended up getting written down by, presumably, more educated people, dinosaurs still were not known about and, hence, never made it into the creation myth.

Edited May 29, 2011 by msj

[msj]

delete - double entry

Edited May 29, 2011 by msj

[sharkman]

I saw this statement of no dinosaurs being in the bible, and I thought there was, so upon searching I found some references.

BEHEMOTH

Job 40:15-24 describes this creature as having a tail that moves like a cedar and his bones being like beams of bronze. This is quite a large creature, and remember the word dinosaur wasn't coined until the 1800's.

LEVIATHAN

This creature appears in the Bible several times(Psalms 104, Isaiah 27, Job 41) but it's Job that gives the most detail. In chapter 41, the following: Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around? His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them...

These early descriptions of dinosaurs may have been what made some scientists in the 1800's curious enough to look for them.

As for the dinosaurs not being mentioned in the Bible, many animals weren't mentioned by name, so that doesn't really point to anything. As for Noah, there could have been dinosaurs on the ark, again, not every animal was named. But another theory is that dinosaurs were extinct by then so weren't on the ark. I wasn't there so it's hard to say.

It's an interesting subject, though, and I'd love to know what really happened to the dinos.

[kimmy]

Or maybe the Behemoth and Leviathan are just more examples of the writers of the Bible swiping bits and pieces of older religions and mythologies to spruce up their stories.

The Sumerians and Greeks and Chinese had dragons and giant sea monsters many centuries before the Bible existed.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

Noah's Ark? Give me a break. No such thing existed. The Fertile Crecent flooded lots, though.

Dinosaurs didn't all live at the same time. There are three distinct periods: Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous. So...Ark types...how did your god save Plateosauruses (Triassic), Diplodocuses (Jurassic) and Dromaeosaurus (Cretaceous) when seperated by over 100 million years of rock? Hmmmmm?

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...and one of the most striking factor of many late Cretaceous dinosaurs wasn't scales...it was that they were covered in feathers. You know...like birds...the dino's only living relative.

[sharkman]

I tend to avoid religious debates like this as God can not be explained away by mere logic and known science. By the same token there is no point in trying to prove God to someone as there is so much more involved than mere logic that the human mind can understand. The more we know the more we find we don't know about everything from the human body to the universe. I wasn't trying to take up the mantle in this thread or anything, I just wanted to show that dinosaurs when mentioned in the bible.

I will leave you with a portion of Job where God answers by talking about the horse. It was read at the start of the movie, "The Secretariat". Big Red was pawing and galloping during the sequence and it was moving to see that beautiful beast.

Have you given the horse strength? Have you clothed his neck with thunder? Can you frighten him like a locust? His majestic snorting strikes terror. He paws in the valley, and rejoices in his strength; He gallops into the clash of arms...He devours the distance with fierceness and rage; Nor does he stand firm, because the trumpet has sounded. At the blast of the trumpet he says, 'Aha!' He smells the battle from afar, the thunder of captains and shouting.

[DogOnPorch]

I tend to avoid religious debates like this as God can not be explained away by mere logic and known science.

Works for me.

[GostHacked]

Noah's Ark? Give me a break. No such thing existed. The Fertile Crecent flooded lots, though.

Dinosaurs didn't all live at the same time. There are three distinct periods: Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous. So...Ark types...how did your god save Plateosauruses (Triassic), Diplodocuses (Jurassic) and Dromaeosaurus (Cretaceous) when seperated by over 100 million years of rock? Hmmmmm?

Agreed. The Ark is too small to hold all the creatures. Not to mention the time it would take to round up all these creatures to put on the boat. Also, we keep discovering new species of animals around the world. If they eluded us in the modern era, they sure as muck were not known to whonever built the non existant ark.

[msj]

Noah's Ark? Give me a break. No such thing existed. The Fertile Crecent flooded lots, though.

Dinosaurs didn't all live at the same time. There are three distinct periods: Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous. So...Ark types...how did your god save Plateosauruses (Triassic), Diplodocuses (Jurassic) and Dromaeosaurus (Cretaceous) when seperated by over 100 million years of rock? Hmmmmm?

Yes, that's exactly my point.

If you were to believe the Bible, then Adam and Eve were created within the first six days.

Why no mention of huge creatures like dinosaurs that surly would be worth noting?

Well, because dinosaurs preceded humans by millions of years contra Genesis' creation myth.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, that's exactly my point.

If you were to believe the Bible, then Adam and Eve were created within the first six days.

Why no mention of huge creatures like dinosaurs that surly would be worth noting?

Well, because dinosaurs preceded humans by millions of years contra Genesis' creation myth.

Then there's Charnia...neither plant nor animal. Not around today...flooding = no effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charnia

[betsy]

Yes, Behemoth and Leviathan were both mentioned in the Bible. The description of Behemoth fits the sauropod. Leviathan could either be a dragon or a sea serpent.

Job 40:15-22 (Good News Translation w/ Apocrypha)

15 Look at the monster Behemoth; I created him and I created you. He eats grass like a cow, 16 but what strength there is in his body, and what power there is in his muscles! 17 His tail stands up like a cedar, and the muscles in his legs are strong. 18 His bones are as strong as bronze, and his legs are like iron bars. 19 The most amazing of all my creatures! Only his Creator can defeat him. 20 Grass to feed him grows on the hills where wild beasts play. 21 He lies down under the thorn bushes, and hides among the reeds in the swamp. 22 The thorn bushes and the willows by the stream give him shelter in their shade. 23 He is not afraid of a rushing river; he is calm when the Jordan dashes in his face. 24 Who can blind his eyes and capture him? Or who can catch his snout in a trap?

Job 41

1 [a]“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook

or tie down its tongue with a rope?

2 Can you put a cord through its nose

or pierce its jaw with a hook?

3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?

Will it speak to you with gentle words?

4 Will it make an agreement with you

for you to take it as your slave for life?

5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird

or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?

6 Will traders barter for it?

Will they divide it up among the merchants?

7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons

or its head with fishing spears?

8 If you lay a hand on it,

you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9 Any hope of subduing it is false;

the mere sight of it is overpowering.

10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.

Who then is able to stand against me?

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?

Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,

its strength and its graceful form.

13 Who can strip off its outer coat?

Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?

14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,

ringed about with fearsome teeth?

15 Its back has[c] rows of shields

tightly sealed together;

16 each is so close to the next

that no air can pass between.

17 They are joined fast to one another;

they cling together and cannot be parted.

18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;

its eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19 Flames stream from its mouth;

sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke pours from its nostrils

as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.

21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,

and flames dart from its mouth.

22 Strength resides in its neck;

dismay goes before it.

23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;

they are firm and immovable.

24 Its chest is hard as rock,

hard as a lower millstone.

25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;

they retreat before its thrashing.

26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,

nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27 Iron it treats like straw

and bronze like rotten wood.

28 Arrows do not make it flee;

slingstones are like chaff to it.

29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;

it laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,

leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron

and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;

one would think the deep had white hair.

33 Nothing on earth is its equal—

a creature without fear.

34 It looks down on all that are haughty;

it is king over all that are proud.”

Psalm 104

24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.

25 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.

26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

[msj]

Strange that we have to wait to Job to get to something that even approximates a dinosaur.

If humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time (i.e. within the six days that god created light, darkness, all of his creatures and man in his image, one would have expected such "behemoths" to have fanciful tales about them with Adam/Eve and Noah in Genesis.

Strange that.

[betsy]

There are a few different views on the Bible. Did God dictate to Moses, or was Moses given a vision (that he watched as events unfolded- in 3D)?

Did God just give an overview or summary (for the future to find out on its own -like science is doing now), or was it really a blow-by-blow account. One thing sure, Moses must've been scratching his head after he re-read what he wrote since he had no idea what science is, what more any knowledge of science at all!

Was the time in Creation God's time, or earth's time?

Then there is Noah's Ark. All animals that walked on land. How can they fit in the Ark?

Was the Ark itself symbolic in meaning? I've read somewhere from an evolution-leaning site that the Ark could be some islands. At least that's one scenario they're giving (apparently coinciding with some science data).

How can all the animals fit in the Ark?

Perhaps they were not taken as adults....but as eggs and/or babies!

That makes sense since they wouldn't be too difficult to handle and they wouldn't be needing too much food to last during the days of confinement.

How many days were they in the Ark? 60 days give-or-take?

And yes, man and dinosaurs co-existed. The debate about that isn't over yet by the looks of it.

What about the Paluxy Tracks?

When the discovery of what appeared to be human footprints, along with dinosaur tracks (in the Paluxy River bed near Glen Rose, Texas), was reported in the May 1939 issue of Natural History, it created a furor that has not subsided to this very day. For decades it seemed obvious to careful observers that this was clear evidence of human/dinosaur co-habitation.

Then, a few years ago, Glen Kuban, a computer programmer from Cleveland, Ohio, discovered chemical discolorations at the front of some of the human-like prints. This led him and others to suggest that the human-like tracks were not human at all; rather, they were simply portions of the dinosaur tracks that had been altered by mud-fill.

Those who were disposed to believe in the theory of evolution alleged that this destroyed the Paluxy evidence once and for all. Some creationists, e.g., those of the Institute of Creation Research in San Diego, adopted a wait-and-see policy until further research is forthcoming. Others were not so easily swayed. Two authors, Robert F. Helfinstine and Jerry D. Roth, recently produced a study which strongly argues for the validity of comtemporary human/dinosaur tracks.

It has even been speculated that someone may have “doctored” some of the dinosaur/human prints to eradicate the impression of “humanness.” Evolutionists, of course, desperately want to discredit the tracks as human, for as some of them have conceded:

Such an occurrence [i.e., human and dinosaur tracks in the same stratum], if verified, would seriously disrupt conventional interpretations of biological and geological history and would support the doctrines of creationism and catastrophism (Journal of Geologic Education 1983, 111-123).

Needless to say, this controversy is far from over.

Those who accept the testimony of the Bible are confident that men and dinosaurs did occupy the ancient earth at the same time. We are not dependent upon modern discoveries to confirm that for us. However, when clear evidence does come to light, we should not hesitate to accept it.

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/93-dinosaurs-and-the-bible

Edited May 29, 2011 by betsy

[msj]

There are a few different views on the Bible. Did God dictate to Moses, or was Moses given a vision (that he watched as events unfolded- in 3D)?

Did God just give an overview or summary (for the future to find out on its own -like science is doing now), or was it really a blow-by-blow account. One thing sure, Moses must've been scratching his head after he re-read what he wrote since he had no idea what science is, what more any knowledge of science at all!

Was the time in Creation God's time, or earth's time?

Umm, THE BOOK specifically states six days. But who knows how many versions of the book god has supposedly written, or dictated, or, or....

But keep back pedaling.....

Then there is Noah's Ark. All animals that walked on land. How can they fit in the Ark?

Was the Ark itself symbolic in meaning? I've read somewhere from an evolution-leaning site that the Ark could be some islands. At least that's one scenario they're giving (apparently coinciding with some science data).

How can all the animals fit in the Ark?

Perhaps they were not taken as adults....but as eggs and/or babies!

That makes sense since they wouldn't be too difficult to handle and they wouldn't be needing too much food to last during the days of confinement.

How many days were they in the Ark? 60 days give-or-take?

And yes, man and dinosaurs co-existed. The debate about that isn't over yet by the looks of it.

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/93-dinosaurs-and-the-bible

Oh, I see.

No point arguing with the loony tunes crowd.