DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 It is written in the Bible how we may find salvation. My view doesn't matter at all. In the end, God is the only one who can judge. But they are polytheists...your god was not involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) So...in your view...are all Hindus going to Hell? Idolators are idolators,are they not? Commandments 1 and 2... Edited May 28, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) But they are polytheists...your god was not involved. It's not only the Hindus. There are others who don't believe in the Christian God. I am intrigued by your statement, "But they are polytheists"....I don't get what you're saying about polytheism. Why is being a polytheist particularly significant? It doesn't matter how many gods or intertwined religions there are, - I've heard of Chrislam (combination of Christian and Islam) - even if one of them involves our God, it won't work out simply because it goes against the Commandments of God. You've got to know and understand the Commandments of God (and most importantly refer to Jesus' explanations from the New Testament) for only therein lies salvation. Exodus 20 The Ten Commandments 1 And God spoke all these words: 2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. The first 4 verses of the 10 Commandments emphasize a One and ONLY God. Matthew 22:36-40 (New International Version) 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Isaiah 46 9 Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. 10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’ A lot of these people believe in idols or other gods because they lack knowledge or understanding of the Christian God. Christians are trying to reach out to these people....spreading the news....so they'll be informed! If they're not informed, how will they know they're doing the wrong thing and worshipping the wrong god? I guess this is the Biblical view of the people's right to know. In that same token, it is of the utmost importance for all Christians as well to really read, study and understand the Bible. Some of us may think we are doing it right (like I did)....only to realize that we are just like the Pharisees in the New Testament. Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Excerpts from Living Truth, Charles Price transcripts: The Word of God You see, the Christian message is not based on speculation but on revelation. Its not founded on peoples ideas about God but on Gods ideas about people. And God has revealed as much of His ideas about people, as much of the facts about Himself as He wants us to know, and thats why Christian people are people of The Book. You see, the authority of Scripture does not derive from its content. Its not the content of the Bible that makes it authoritative. It is the origin of the Bible that makes it authoritative. Its not what this book says that is the reason it is important. It is who is saying it that gives it its authority. But you know one of the interesting things about the Bible is it never tries to prove God. It assumes Him right from the very beginning. The four opening words of the Bible are In the beginning, God … Theres no explanation as to who God is at that point, just the statement that whenever the beginning began, God was there, and whatever happened at the beginning, God did it, and from then on, its assumed by Scripture the existence and the activity of God. The Bible doesnt explain God; it just proclaims Him. In fact, to be utterly honest, God cannot be explained. If God could be explained to our satisfaction, He actually wouldnt be a very big God. If we could fit Him into the parameters of the human intellect, He wouldnt be very big. There are things we know about God, but the half, in fact a fraction, of what there is to know is not yet known. One day we may know it, but in the meantime, God is simply proclaimed in the Scriptures and assumed in the Scriptures. http://www.livingtruth.ca/Res-TRAN.asp Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Who says Christians are correct? Who says Muslims are correct? Who says any faith is correct? Just because a book says so? The Hindu Holy Book outdates the Bible by a thousand years, so why is it wrong? Buddhism is older than Christianity, so why is it wrong? Why are the writings of an obscure tribe (the Jews) in a desert backwater supposedly the "real word of God"? There is NO proof ANY one of the myriad of holy books in this world is the correct one with all the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Who says Christians are correct? Who says Muslims are correct? Who says any faith is correct? Just because a book says so? The Hindu Holy Book outdates the Bible by a thousand years, so why is it wrong? Buddhism is older than Christianity, so why is it wrong? Why are the writings of an obscure tribe (the Jews) in a desert backwater supposedly the "real word of God"? There is NO proof ANY one of the myriad of holy books in this world is the correct one with all the answers. Yup...it is the height of conceit. Idolators are idolators,are they not?Commandments 1 and 2... Then, frankly, the Christian God is a sadist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouterjim Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Also, what of statues of Jesus, Mary and all the Saints? Aren't those idols? Edited May 28, 2011 by scouterjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Also, what of statues of Jesus, Mary and all the Saints? Aren't those idols? Seems like it to moi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Who says Christians are correct? Who says Muslims are correct? Who says any faith is correct? Just because a book says so? The Hindu Holy Book outdates the Bible by a thousand years, so why is it wrong? Buddhism is older than Christianity, so why is it wrong? Why are the writings of an obscure tribe (the Jews) in a desert backwater supposedly the "real word of God"? There is NO proof ANY one of the myriad of holy books in this world is the correct one with all the answers. Yup...it is the height of conceit. Well Scouterjim, you are going circular with your argument....which actually cannot be called an argument anymore since you're just reiterating and re-packaging your own personal opinion. Either the logic of what is being presented here - as to why the Bible is the Word of God - is lost on you......or you're simply ignoring the supporting facts that's been presented on this topic. Scouterjim:The Hindu Holy Book outdates the Bible by a thousand years, so why is it wrong? Buddhism is older than Christianity, so why is it wrong? These statements here points that you don't follow the premise being presented to you. I don't know whether those dates you've given are factual, and I don't care if they are indeed facts or not. We're not debating which book is older or more ancient. You're trying to rebutt the Christian claim regarding the Bible.....but you're placing the focal point of your argument on the ages of the books you've given! Yes I asked you to give me ONE ancient book - and I'm asking for only ONE cite of book from you - that's similar to the Bible! So far I have not gotten a singe valid sample of a similar book - not a SINGLE ONE! Let's try again. Since being an atheist/skeptic/non-Christian you will not accept any reason(s) that's based on faith alone - which is understandable - therefore, here are the supporting facts that makes the Bible unique from all the other ancient "holy" books that speak of creation and origin: All these facts are found in the Bible. FACT: Nothing holds up Earth. It is affected by gravity. FACT: The earth is round. FACT: There is an incalculable number of stars. FACT: Mountains and trenches in the deep blue sea. FACT: Invisible atoms, the building blocks FACT: Noah’s Ark and Ship Building FACT: “Many of the great scientists of the past who founded and developed the key disciplines of science were creationists!” FACT: A finished creation. FACT: The universe is deteriorating FACT: The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning FACT:: Existence of ocean currents FACT: SCIENCE REMAINS BAFFLED! FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE FACT: Hydrological Cycle or Water Cycle FACT: PROPHECIES HAVE COME TRUE! FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED!” FACT: Expression - "CURVATURE OF SPACE," still related to STRETCHING UNIVERSE FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health WOUND, SKIN and DISCHARGE PRECAUTIONS FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health WASTE DISPOSAL FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health DIAGNOSIS and ISOLATION FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health CORPSES and BURIAL PRECAUTIONS FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health FOOD and DRINKING WATER SAFETY FACT: Sanitary Practices, Disease Prevention and Public Health PROMISCUITY, UNLAWFUL LIFESTYLES and DISEASE FACT: The human body is comprised of some 28 base and trace elements which are all found in the earth FACT: BLOOD – THE RIVER OF LIFE FACT: RODINIA and PANTHALASSA, One land and one ocean! Furthermore, here is a recent statement of one respected biologist, - from your own camp - Andrew Parker: Amazingly, the precise wording of the Bible's first page, and the events inferred and the sequence with which they are placed, tells the story of life's history according to our current best scientific understanding. That a man without scientific knowledge , should write such a thing in 700 BCE is almost scary. And then another man of similar stock placed it on the first page of his people's most important book. This is what I call a genesis enigma. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/shortstack/2009/11/probing_genesis_for_scientific.htm Therefore, show me an acient "holy" book similar to the Bible! PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Every culture has a creation myth. You just claim yours is correct and everybody else is wrong (and going to Hell). You have no evidence to actually back this up. No...more quotes from your 'holy book' aren't gonna cut it. Especially in English...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (Much jibberish deleted) Therefore, show me an acient "holy" book similar to the Bible! PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! Here's one... http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/ ...and a list of others... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) This same evolutionist scientist flatly stated: Science cannot tell us whether something inexplicable -- God -- exists or not. Atheists' claims cannot be substantiated -- indeed, they are unscientific because atheism becomes as much a faith (in no God) as religion is itself. It carries a bias, and science does not. Andrew Parker http://voices.washingtonpost.com/shortstack/2009/11/probing_genesis_for_scientific.htm So unless you guys offer anything with substance at all, other than your aimless comments, your atheistic opinions are nothing more than just lame efforts to resuscitate your faith in its death throes. Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Here's one... http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/ ...and a list of others... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text Well? Cite an origin-based passage from it that's been proven by science! You want to rebutt. Formally present your rebuttal here! Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) And since scientists seem to be spending so much of their time analyzing and scrutinizing the Bible - which in itself says a great deal about how science is taking serious notice of the Bible - you guys better show what science has to say about any book(s) you try to pass of comparable to the Bible. Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 You realize the Bible wasn't written in English...right? Plus that HUMANS wrote it...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Well? Cite an origin-based passage from it that's been proven by science! You want to rebutt. Present your formal rebuttal here! Your holy book is NOT supported by the scientific method you openly despise. It is no different than the other books on that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) You realize the Bible wasn't written in English...right? Plus that HUMANS wrote it...right? That's your rebutt??? That's it? Well that's the same as Scouterjim using dates and age as his reason. And I answer the same thing. SO WHAT? Your holy book is NOT supported by the scientific method you openly despise. Despise? If you mean pseudo-science like Dawkins' and other sightless atheists scientists-turned-pseudoscientists, I say they're not credible at all! They've lost all credibility! Despise is a very strong word. It is no different than the other books on that list. I guess there won't be any cite-ings at all. Hmmm....how is the weather there? Did you see American Idol? Darn that Schwarzenneger. So what do you think of the new NDP caucus? Got any more beer? What? Did you see the price on gas??? Pass the peanuts please. (Boy, it feels like a bar in here in the middle of a dead Tuesday afternoon) Excuse me....I gotta go home now. Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Calling Richard Dawkins a pseudoscientist tells me exactly how much you despise science, Wendy. It's a threat to your belief system...so you openly attack it. It is the response of fear. Fear that your harp and wings do not await you in cloud 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Well Scouterjim, you are going circular with your argument....which actually cannot be called an argument anymore since you're just reiterating and re-packaging your own personal opinion. Either the logic of what is being presented here - as to why the Bible is the Word of God - is lost on you......or you're simply ignoring the supporting facts that's been presented on this topic. No he ain't. You're the one going around in a circle stating the same nonsense over and over again. All you have presented are your interpretations (i.e. your opinion) on sections of a book written by a bunch of different people thousands of years ago as if that book should still matter today. The book is crap. Pure. Utter. Crap. Yes, that's my opinion but it's based on actually reading the bloody thing and realizing how much harm this has done to humanity. As for your alleged scientific claims, that I have snipped here because no matter how big or bold the font, they are not made any more real or true, the one I find most suspicious is the lack of dinosaurs. As Christopher Hitchens wrote: How can it be proven in one paragraph that this book [the Bible] was written by ignorant men and not by an god? Because man is given "dominion" over all beasts, fowl and fish. But no dinosaurs or plesiosaurs or pterodactyls are specified, because the authors did not know of their existence. As Ian Frazier later wrote when commenting on this quote: ...How could an all-knowing being leave out something so huge? ... And if Adam and Eve actually did have dominion why didn't they ride around Eden on a dinosaur? .... Yet if God did not write the Bible, he certainly did take credit for it. That is, God did not go out of his way to make it clear that he had not written this book attributed to him. Quite simply, he appropriated work done by someone else. Yes, that's right, God is a lying plagarist who has stolen a book written by ignorant men. The facts are this: there is too much error, ignorance, mistakes, contradictions and hypocrisy within the Bible for any critical or skeptical reader to take it seriously. Yet, because humans have take it seriously for thousands of years we have to put up with the opinions of Betsy and other cultists who can't see the inherent putridity of the Bible for themselves. Edited May 28, 2011 by msj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Calling Richard Dawkins a pseudoscientist tells me exactly how much you despise science, Wendy. It's a threat to your belief system...so you openly attack it. It is the response of fear. Fear that your harp and wings do not await you in cloud 9. Here. It's all here in this topic. Video Debates and interviews http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18495 Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 No worries...your fear response is natural...given to you via millions of years of evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) No he ain't. You're the one going around in a circle stating the same nonsense over and over again. All you have presented are your interpretations (i.e. your opinion) on sections of a book written by a bunch of different people thousands of years ago as if that book should still matter today. The book is crap. Pure. Utter. Crap. Yes, that's my opinion but it's based on actually reading the bloody thing and realizing how much harm this has done to humanity. As for your alleged scientific claims, that I have snipped here because no matter how big or bold the font, they are not made any more real or true, the one I find most suspicious is the lack of dinosaurs. As Christopher Hitchens wrote: As Ian Frazier later wrote when commenting on this quote: Yes, that's right, God is a lying plagarist who has stolen a book written by ignorant men. The facts are this: there is too much error, ignorance, mistakes, contradictions and hypocrisy within the Bible for any critical or skeptical reader to take it seriously. Yet, because humans have take it seriously for thousands of years we have to put up with the opinions of Betsy and other cultists who can't see the inherent putridity of the Bible for themselves. yada-yada-yada. Hichens = Dawkins! Nothing surprising there! Speaking of plagiariaze - - it is science that's been forced to plagiarize indeed! They have to use the word "stretch" to describe what the universe is doing! And that's how it's been described in the Bible - at least 11 times! Anyway, here....try to catch up! Check these two out so you'd understand what I mean by "plagiarism!" FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE page 4 post#49 FACT: EXPANDING UNIVERSE: Science uses the word, "STRETCHING/STRETCHES/STRETCHED! page 7; post #94 Edited May 28, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Here we see the Wendyosaurus in its natural habitat. When confronted with predatory raptor dinosaurs, the Wendyosaurus launches into a babble of jibberish she hopes will confuse them. Unfortunately, the raptors know just where to strike and have evolved the talons to ensure the job is done quickly. Edited May 29, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 No worries...your fear response is natural...given to you via millions of years of evolution. You're the one who believes in evolution....so you must be describing how you feel! Good to know at least you're aware of what you're going through. Understandable for a fundamentalist atheist to feel that way....when the "predator" God is coming slowly to full circle....getting closer....closer....closer....and soon will be so very in your face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 You're the one who believes in evolution....so you must be describing how you feel! Good to know at least you're aware of what you're going through. Understandable for a fundamentalist atheist to feel that way....when the "predator" God is coming slowly to full circle....getting closer....closer....closer....and soon will be so very in your face! Oddly...that doesn't provoke a fear response in me while evolution and science have you wanting to burn witches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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