Ontario Fall election

[jacee]

Hudak is worrisome - to come right out of the gates and go for the potential spite vote by bringing up the idea of having prisoners turned into slaves - sure hurt his image as far as being an inovative or intelligent potential leader...He showed lazyness and a lack of real ability....what did he do - go for the manual that stated "when you have nothing to offer- stimulate the hate in the populace? He is a disappointment...Maybe he just needs better advisors - and who ever told him to appeal to the worst parts of human nature - SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY!

[M.Dancer]

I have to admit....so close to the election and I am undecided. I do not like McGuinty...I do not know Hudak...

A few more moves though like the recent Liberal rent hike...and my decision may be made.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/liberals-announce-highest-ontario-rent-increase-rate-in-years/article2114569/?from=sec368

but then there is this gem....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/mcguinty-energizes-ontario-campaign-with-promise-of-green-jobs/article2118494/

Problem is, I vote for a party or a candidate, not against .....

[Boges]

I have to admit....so close to the election and I am undecided. I do not like McGuinty...I do not know Hudak...

A few more moves though like the recent Liberal rent hike...and my decision may be made.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/liberals-announce-highest-ontario-rent-increase-rate-in-years/article2114569/?from=sec368

but then there is this gem....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/mcguinty-energizes-ontario-campaign-with-promise-of-green-jobs/article2118494/

Problem is, I vote for a party or a candidate, not against .....

Daddy Dalton pledges to raise rents now because he's about to get pwnt. The last few years he's approved max increases of less than 1 percent. How can a landlord maintain his property if he can't increase rent anywhere close to the rate of inflation. My property taxes, Condo Fees, Utilities, Insurance have all gone up steadily.

Green Jobs are a scam since the only way these forms of power can be generated without a loss is from government subsidies.

Oleg if that's all you've got from Hudak's platform by now you haven't been listening. The only problem I have with Hudak is that he's promising not to make cuts. It's a mistake Rob Ford finds himself in. He plans to cut revenue by eliminating the HST on utilities so that money has to be made up somewhere and then some.

The good news for him is that Dalton has moved so far to the right in the past year because of his impending defeat he'll probably lose votes on both sides.

[treehugger]

Many of you will find this very partisan, but: If budget cuts are the order of the day, I would far rather have those doing the cutting not being folks with ideological designs on cutting down the public service. I am less likely to trust them to cut what makes sense rather than what they do not personally care for. In other words, I would posit that people who are more likely to support the public service are likely to be more qualified to cut it down.

To use a needlessly complex analogy of questionable value and excessive romanticism: if I have a giant block of ice that I need to make lighter, if I hand the hammer and chisel to a conservative who thinks we do not need the ice on principle, he will merely pick a spot and hammer off a big chunk of ice. What I need instead is someone who does not object to ice blocks as being useless on principle, and thus given job of cutting it down to size would rather make something of the opporunity and carve a sculpture.

IF YOU CAN"T CUT PUBLIC SERVICES WHAT IS THERE LEFT? IT'S ALL OF THOSE SERVICES THAT COST THE CITIES, PROVINCES AND THE COUNTRY THE MONEY.

[Scotty]

IF YOU CAN"T CUT PUBLIC SERVICES WHAT IS THERE LEFT? IT'S ALL OF THOSE SERVICES THAT COST THE CITIES, PROVINCES AND THE COUNTRY THE MONEY.

Problem is that McGuinty drastically increased spending his terms, and much of it went to increased salaries to public sector workers so they would be his friends. You can't go back and cut the wages of doctors, nurses, teachers or public servants. That means you're left with cutting the number of doctors, nurses, teachers and public servants, and that means cutting back on services, on quality of health care and education, etc.

One of the things Hudak can reverse is that expensive gift McGuinty gave to the teachers. In establishing all day junior kindergarten he ignored the recommendations of the commission to use early childhood educators. Instead, bowing to pressure from the teachers unions, he used teachers, who are a lot more expensive.

[thepatrickblack]

Daddy Dalton pledges to raise rents now because he's about to get pwnt. The last few years he's approved max increases of less than 1 percent. How can a landlord maintain his property if he can't increase rent anywhere close to the rate of inflation. My property taxes, Condo Fees, Utilities, Insurance have all gone up steadily.

Green Jobs are a scam since the only way these forms of power can be generated without a loss is from government subsidies.

Oleg if that's all you've got from Hudak's platform by now you haven't been listening. The only problem I have with Hudak is that he's promising not to make cuts. It's a mistake Rob Ford finds himself in. He plans to cut revenue by eliminating the HST on utilities so that money has to be made up somewhere and then some.

The good news for him is that Dalton has moved so far to the right in the past year because of his impending defeat he'll probably lose votes on both sides.

You're being a bit dramatic about his green power plan. He's starting a new business. Any business has start up costs, angel periods where investors pay in big in the hopes of paying off later. Also, he's doing it so that he can ween the province off coal and kill fewer people. There are lots of things to disagree with in there (government shouldn't run businesses? Allow market forces? Coal is cheaper?) without calling it a scam.

[Wild Bill]

You're being a bit dramatic about his green power plan. He's starting a new business. Any business has start up costs, angel periods where investors pay in big in the hopes of paying off later. Also, he's doing it so that he can ween the province off coal and kill fewer people. There are lots of things to disagree with in there (government shouldn't run businesses? Allow market forces? Coal is cheaper?) without calling it a scam.

Well, if you don't like 'scam' how about 'ignorance'? Dalton and his crew obviously have no idea about technology or business themselves. They think they can set up an artificial situation with a huge price for green power generation, paying for it out of tax money, in order to establish an industry. Once the industry is established they take it for granted that prices will drop to the point where wind and solar are competitive, removing the need for any subsidy.

What if it's just not possible to lower wind and solar pricing that far? What if there is a limit on how much cheaper or more efficient we can make solar cells? Already, we make generators that are as efficient as anyone could ask. How much improvement can we expect for the cost of wind power?

As I said, Dalton and his crew are taking all the technical side of things for granted, expecting the industry to just wave a magic wand and invent anything they desire. Mother Nature's Laws of How the Universe Works might very well throw things a curve.

Meanwhile, there are tried and proven technologies to make coal burning plants pristine clean! Not to mention how natural gas is a quantum level cleaner even before you add scrubbers and the like. These technologies would be FAR cheaper than Dalton's MicroFit program! Yet Dalton has already said he will junk coal and gas burning. Therefore, because of the political optics he will NOT look at clean coal or gas as an alternative!

The same mindset was in operation during Bob Rae's tenure as premier of Ontario. Ruth Grier was his environmental minister and she and the NDP were absolutely against incineration to get rid of garbage! However, other options were proving to be far more expensive. Meanwhile, there were American incineration garbage operations using plasma torch and other technologies that were not only as clean as anyone could ever want but were built right within communities, with lawns and trees in parks on the top!

These American operators were so interested in building some plants in Toronto and getting the contracts to handle the garbage stream that they actually offered to fly Ruth and her entourage down to one of their plants for her inspection, paying the entire shot for the trip!

What happened? What you would think, of course! Since politically the NDP had been public with its decision they absolutely refused to talk to or about these operations at all!

This is why I believe that letting politicians make decisions on these technical issues is a cure far worse than any disease! A dart thrown at a board full of balloons would have a better chance of making an intelligent decision.

[Thorn]

What if it's just not possible to lower wind and solar pricing that far? What if there is a limit on how much cheaper or more efficient we can make solar cells? Already, we make generators that are as efficient as anyone could ask. How much improvement can we expect for the cost of wind power?

Then energy prices will be sky high. But there's not a lot of down side to that as they will by then have moved on to well-paid jobs in the private sector.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

In establishing all day junior kindergarten he ignored the recommendations of the commission to use early childhood educators. Instead, bowing to pressure from the teachers unions, he used teachers, who are a lot more expensive.

I would rather 3 ECE's be in the classroom than 1 teacher. Kindergarten is now the most expensive grade to run. 1 Teacher and 1 ECE with small class sizes.

In my opinion, at the lower elementary level Teacher's are over qualified.

Kindergarten isn't really curriculum driven. It's about more about getting kids into the idea of school and working with each other.

[Boges]

I would rather 3 ECE's be in the classroom than 1 teacher. Kindergarten is now the most expensive grade to run. 1 Teacher and 1 ECE with small class sizes.

In my opinion, at the lower elementary level Teacher's are over qualified.

Kindergarten isn't really curriculum driven. It's about more about getting kids into the idea of school and working with each other.

Just another example of how Daddy Dalton has bent to greedy teacher's unions.

[mentalfloss]

Ontario election fight gets dirty online

It may be all smiles for the cameras as Ontario political leaders fight their way toward the Oct. 6 election, but online the fight is nasty.

On Wednesday, the NDP launched a new website to counter social media attacks and rumours they claim are being spread by other parties.

The site, www.stopthesmears.ca, aims to dispel myths such as the NDP have a fleet of 20 orange SUVs on standby for the election and that leader Andrea Horwath is really the incarnation of Mike Harris.

People are tired of whisper campaigns and negative ads, said NDP MPP Cheri DiNovo (Parkdale-High Park). She claims the NDP website will “tackle the smears” and get the facts out.

Party leaders have vowed not to wage a dirty campaign before the Oct. 6 election.

But in the social media universe, the election is running a different course. Fake people espousing partisan views have proliferated on Twitter, there are YouTube videos making fun of certain party leaders, and websites have been created by the political parties to try to make sense of it all.

The Tories started www.truthabouttimhudak.com and within 24 hours they believe the Liberals, or their supporters, started up the parallel site www.thetruthabouttim.com. The later site does not advertise who created it but it notes Hudak would “cut $3 billion out of health care” and that he wants to scrap the Liberals’ Green Energy Act.

However, the social media noise distracts journalists from the real news and it can confuse voters, said Greg Elmer, a Ryerson University media professor.

At its worst, social media in campaigns is a “distraction factory” trying to divert attention from positive policy announcements coming from political opponents, said Elmer.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1037698--ontario-election-fight-gets-dirty-online

Edited August 11, 2011 by mentalfloss

[Oleg Bach]

McGinty has the piercing eyes of a seniour Scientologist...and Hudak...well I wish we had more than him...how come the provincal conservatives put Hudak forward to lead? What's with the charismatic deficit goingon these days - NDP get that delluded power hungry school teacher...Hudak with no imagination other than saying lets take the poor in jail and make them work - as if Ontario will benefit by that? What ever happened to the real leaders...to bad they hide out in bank towers and do not want to commit to public service - but only private personal service- The truely dynamic individuals are not interested - and those with no dynamo power are overly interested in leading a polical party?

[capricorn]

The only thing a voter should do is listen to their platforms.

I think taking a peak at McGuinty's record in government to date is also worth the effort. Here is a listing of some of his government's accomplishments.

http://www.noliberals.ca/

McGuinty words to remember.

“We will live by the balanced budget law”

“There will be no tire tax, everyone got that”?

“We will close Nanticoke by 2007”

“We will not reduce health services for Ontarians”

“Every penny of the health premium will go into health care”

And my personal favourite.

“I promise not to raise taxes”

Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty, whose 2003 campaign promise not to raise taxes dogs his Oct. 10 re-election bid, said Ontarians should read his lips.

"We will not have to raise taxes, because we're in charge. We know exactly where we are," he said yesterday on Global's Focus Ontario.

McGuinty told host Sean Mallen that his decision to break that cornerstone promise and introduce the annual health tax of up to $900 was agonizing.

"I have a concern that people may not understand what motivated me to do that," the Liberal leader said.

"For me to have to break that promise was the most difficult thing I've done in 17 years of politics. I've got to tell you, I hated doing that," he said.

"That's now part of my record. I accept that. That's part and parcel of who I am."

http://www.thestar.com/Unassigned/article/259493

[scribblet]

I'm not clear on Hudak's policies, but there's no way I could vote for McGuinty, after all his broken promises etc. I know that a politician can't always follow through, global financial problems and so on, but McGuinty takes the cake...

One thing that bothers me about McGuinty is his eco projects, in particular wind turbines. I'm not affected by them personally but am very concerned about the health affects and the way he's taken away the rights of municipalities to have any say in the matter.

I listened to an interview with the Pres. of Wind Concerns Ontario, it was very enlightening, in particular the part about what the uncovered with the FOI...

http://windconcernsontario.wordpress.com/

http://windconcernsontario.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/ontario-liberal-reaction-to-wind-concerns-ontario-launching-windyleaks-com/\

WindyLeaks.com has scheduled another release for Monday August 22nd at 8:00am and will continue daily postings of victims ignored pleas for help to the Ministry.

Toronto – After receiving the results of a Freedom of Information request a private citizen filed with the Ministry of the Environment regarding human health impacts of industrial wind turbines, Wind Concerns Ontario has launched WindyLeaks.com to share damning information about industrial turbines Ministry of Environment officials acknowledge while their political masters remain in denial.

[Oleg Bach]

The conservatives had better put their hand into the meat puppets orifice and get Hudak talking about things that make sense - who the hell is handling his campaign? Surely there must be some bright young conservatives that can advice this doink..They had better hurry up or we will have McGinty again...and before you know it we will all be marching in the no so gay day parade.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

The conservatives had better put their hand into the meat puppets orifice and get Hudak talking about things that make sense - who the hell is handling his campaign? Surely there must be some bright young conservatives that can advice this doink..They had better hurry up or we will have McGinty again...and before you know it we will all be marching in the no so gay day parade.

I wouldn't mind Dalton again.

The previous conservative government fudged numbers so Dalton couldn't keep his promises in the first term. Now they, willingly ignore that fact because they are idiots.

Election promises for his original win are irrelevant because there was no surplus. The Conservatives lied.

Edited August 21, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Wild Bill]

I wouldn't mind Dalton again.

The previous conservative government fudged numbers so Dalton couldn't keep his promises in the first term. Now they, willingly ignore that fact because they are idiots.

Election promises for his original win are irrelevant because there was no surplus. The Conservatives lied.

Well, that's one lie for Tim and 10 zillion for Dalton, but who's counting?

Meanwhile, after the disgusting spectacle of Dalton removing the protection of the Law from the entire Town of Caledonia I have no remaining respect for him. I'd sooner vote for a pedophile than Dalton and his crew! They have spat on the most important responsibility of government to its citizens for political purposes. They deserve only contempt! If he'd do it to Caledonia he's do it to any of us anywhere in Ontario, if it suited his purposes.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Well, that's one lie for Tim and 10 zillion for Dalton, but who's counting?

Meanwhile, after the disgusting spectacle of Dalton removing the protection of the Law from the entire Town of Caledonia I have no remaining respect for him. I'd sooner vote for a pedophile than Dalton and his crew! They have spat on the most important responsibility of government to its citizens for political purposes. They deserve only contempt! If he'd do it to Caledonia he's do it to any of us anywhere in Ontario, if it suited his purposes.

You mean like the federal Conservatives have shown for Canada?

Your pedophile remark is old btw, it was already used earlier in this thread.

[Shwa]

Well, that's one lie for Tim and 10 zillion for Dalton, but who's counting?

Meanwhile, after the disgusting spectacle of Dalton removing the protection of the Law from the entire Town of Caledonia I have no remaining respect for him. I'd sooner vote for a pedophile than Dalton and his crew! They have spat on the most important responsibility of government to its citizens for political purposes. They deserve only contempt! If he'd do it to Caledonia he's do it to any of us anywhere in Ontario, if it suited his purposes.

Dalton McGuinty never removed "the protection of the Law from the entire Town of Caledonia" and you know it. Now you are lying. I can see why you find the Tories attractive.

[Oleg Bach]

I wouldn't mind Dalton again.

The previous conservative government fudged numbers so Dalton couldn't keep his promises in the first term. Now they, willingly ignore that fact because they are idiots.

Election promises for his original win are irrelevant because there was no surplus. The Conservatives lied.

I wish for conservatism - but I don't think we are going to get it..I can't tell what the hell Hudak is - a conservative is not some guy that wants to beat up on poor bad people---that's a colonialist...a henchman for spiteful bankers - Hudak is a let down - and maybe Dalton...is a trained horse at this time and useful - YES todays conservatives do lie - it's called buisness - and most are lawyers who are trained liars...it's a shame that no one has any class these days.

[Wild Bill]

You mean like the federal Conservatives have shown for Canada?

Your pedophile remark is old btw, it was already used earlier in this thread.

The pedophile remark was mine! I'm entitled to use it as often as I want.

As for the sins of the federal conservatives, so what? What's your point?

"Let me off the hook, Mom! After all, my brother did it too!"

The Conservatives are politicians too, you know. Why do you imply that if one is wrong it should be forgiven because another politician of a different stripe also committed such a wrong?

When someone calls the police and they are told "Sorry! You're on your own! We will NOT come out!" then government has totally lost the right to command respect from its citizens.

Perhaps that's a significant difference between Canadians and Americans. If an American in New York read such a thing about a town in California, he would immediately get indignant! "That's un-American!" he would cry.

If a Canadian reads it as happening in a Canadian community, he will say "Well, it probably didn't happen that way!" or "Those newspapers exaggerate!" or sadly and even worse yet, the implications will just soar over his head...

Or worst of all: "I like natives so anything they do is right and justified and those townsfolk must have done something to ask for it!"

We are never going to achieve the dream of a "Star Trek" culture where race is irrelevant as long as this sort of thing keeps happening.

[charter.rights]

The pedophile remark was mine! I'm entitled to use it as often as I want.

As for the sins of the federal conservatives, so what? What's your point?

"Let me off the hook, Mom! After all, my brother did it too!"

The Conservatives are politicians too, you know. Why do you imply that if one is wrong it should be forgiven because another politician of a different stripe also committed such a wrong?

When someone calls the police and they are told "Sorry! You're on your own! We will NOT come out!" then government has totally lost the right to command respect from its citizens.

Perhaps that's a significant difference between Canadians and Americans. If an American in New York read such a thing about a town in California, he would immediately get indignant! "That's un-American!" he would cry.

If a Canadian reads it as happening in a Canadian community, he will say "Well, it probably didn't happen that way!" or "Those newspapers exaggerate!" or sadly and even worse yet, the implications will just soar over his head...

Or worst of all: "I like natives so anything they do is right and justified and those townsfolk must have done something to ask for it!"

We are never going to achieve the dream of a "Star Trek" culture where race is irrelevant as long as this sort of thing keeps happening.

So you are lying. No one was denied police service. No one was told the police would not come.

[Socialist in Oil Country]

There is a right wing wave in Canada

Ontario will go PC

Sask Party will increase their majority in Saskatchewan

PC will win Manitoba

Cons are the new natural governing party, god help us all

[MiddleClassCentrist]

There is a right wing wave in Canada

Ontario will go PC

Sask Party will increase their majority in Saskatchewan

PC will win Manitoba

Cons are the new natural governing party, god help us all

The sad thing is that I could have voted for the old Progressives and felt good about it. Now they are regressive corporatists. A pock mark in Canadian history, I just hope we get out of it.

[Socialist in Oil Country]

The sad thing is that I could have voted for the old Progressives and felt good about it. Now they are regressive corporatists. A pock mark in Canadian history, I just hope we get out of it.

I am very glad to hear that the Alberta PC Party's leadership race is open to everyone over 16 this year. All it costs is a $5 membership. I will make sure my vote counts. I will be voting either David Griffiths or Alison Redford, as they appear to be the furthest left candidates.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Socialist in Oil Country