Ontario Fall election

[Wild Bill]

I provided you plenty of links to "equivalent" and worse. You are still bullshitting and you know it. And now you are just embarassing yourself.

You and I have very different ideas of "equivalent".

How about a cite of a non-native protester in camo holding an AK-47 or some such assault rifle, standing face to face with a Canadian soldier?

Being armed, loud and mouthy while making it perfectly obvious that you're prepared to "rock and roll" is the image of native protesters Lasagna gave to the nation, if not the world. I still believe that image contributed in at least some small part in the tragedy at Ipperwash. It caused fear in the minds of OPP officers, standing guard in the dark. That fear might well have triggered an over-reaction.

Lasagna established the precedent. Fear that natives in any future protest might well be similarly armed is therefore only logical. Past deeds set a pattern, making future actions likely.

It's as logical as expecting McGuinty to find something else to tax us on.

[Boges]

I cannot believe the price of hydro and gasoline have not come up here has the #1 reason Daddy Dalton will get pwnt in October.

How can anyone defend the Samsung deal?

How can anyone defend the fact that people invested 10's of thousands of dollars to equip their homes with solar panels only to find out that the government won't be buying the power created.

How can anyone defend this "Green Energy Benefit" which is basically an artificial reduction in the price of your bill in-order to buy votes? He borrowed the money!

Also the fact that the HST is a tax, on top of a tax, on top of a tax on gasoline. It's offensive.

And finally the bold face lie about the power plant in Oakville. It was said that the plant wasn't needed after stiff resistance from the affluent Liberal riding. Less than a year later plans are to build a similar plant on the boarder of Mississauga and Toronto. I thought another Natural gas plant wasn't needed? And if it wasn't needed, why the eff is our hydro rates supposed to go up in the double digits in the coming years.

Dalton is a lying scumbag!

[Oleg Bach]

Both men running are personally a big disappointment. I would really like to see a provincal conservative government - but Hudak is desperately ambitious and McGinty is a bit to sly...so do we vote for the party or the man? Looks like most will be voting for the party - Even the liberal faction dislike McGinty...the only hope we have in in the fact that the liberal city state of Toronto has been taken over by Ford and new conservative Canadians that now out number sucky liberal anglo do goooders.

[mentalfloss]

Tories, Grits leave door open for NDP

Hudak leads in the polls, though it's surprising how narrow the gap is--only about 6%, according to an Ipsos Reid poll--considering McGuinty's popularity is lower than that of his his party. The PCs will offer tax cuts, follow the Liberals' policy on health care and education and send criminals to rake leaves.

Hudak has even offered to dock the Premier's $208,000 annual salary if he can't deliver tax relief (though he didn't say by how much). He'll remove the HST from home heating and hydro. He wants some broad tax cuts and he'll even take the debt retirement charge off home hydro bills, though since the debt is still there, funds will likely come out of provincial revenue.

Regardless, he's the anti-taxman. He thinks it's his strength.

He's banking on a taxpayer revolt at the polls, and he's pressing the point with his television advertisements, dubbing McGuinty "The Taxman." McGuinty's "sheer brilliance" at creating the health tax, and his "virtuoso move" at introducing the HST are the focus of the ads.

This would be a good sell if Hudak wasn't keeping the health premium and most of the HST in place. That's right, the very things at the centre of Hudak's assault on the Liberals, he's going to keep largely intact. So McGuinty takes the political fall and Hudak keeps the bounty.

That's the plan, anyway--one likely to be exposed as duplicitous during the campaign.

NDP leader Andrea Horwath is offering help for lower-income earners with some new ideas--relief from ambulance fees, a freeze on municipal transit fares and removing the HST from heating and hydro. But to date, the party is riding on its promise to regulate gas prices at the pumps--though there is no guarantee motorists will save money in the long run.

More is expected from the NDP during its pre-election convention this weekend.

http://www.lfpress.com/comment/2011/06/23/18324526.html

[Boges]

See the problem is that Dalton has increased spending by 70%. The civil service has to be attacked. The teachers, the nurses, the pencil pushers that only renew your license stickers, something has to give.

The taxes have to stay in place to just keep the status quo.

I'm encouraged by what the Harper government has done actually in regards to the postal workers. I think there is an appetite for change regarding entitled civil servants.

BTW I was only a naive teen for much of his reign. WTF was wrong with Mike Harris?

[Topaz]

I have a question, are there more voters within the horseshoe of Ontario, then the rest of the province?

[Boges]

I have a question, are there more voters within the horseshoe of Ontario, then the rest of the province?

It certainly is and the fact the 905 region went to strongly Tory in the May Federal election you'd think it would go Tory in the provincial election. Other than many of the downtown 416 ridings and Guelph all Central Ontario went blue.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

See the problem is that Dalton has increased spending by 70%. The civil service has to be attacked. The teachers, the nurses, the pencil pushers that only renew your license stickers, something has to give.

All I hear is "ARGLE BARGLE BARGLE"

Why do conservatives hate education and health care so much?

Why not target something less noble, like corporate subsidies?

[MiddleClassCentrist]

It certainly is and the fact the 905 region went to strongly Tory in the May Federal election you'd think it would go Tory in the provincial election. Other than many of the downtown 416 ridings and Guelph all Central Ontario went blue.

Not necessarily.

Even then, it wouldn't be because of the Conservatives merits.

Hudak has no merit. He's going to lower taxes and not make any cuts? lol. YEAH RIGHT.

It'd be because the Liberals have been in power too long and are going to gamble on someone else for awhile. Most people understand, well I should say, most SANE people who can read understand that you can't blame all of the taxes that McGuinty brought in during his first term on him. The Conservatives knowingly fudged the budget numbers to show a surplus. McGuinty was campaigning based on their surplus only to find a multibillion dollar deficit.

The Conservatives in Ontario are slimy, fraudulent buggers.

[Boges]

All I hear is "ARGLE BARGLE BARGLE"

Why do conservatives hate education and health care so much?

Why not target something less noble, like corporate subsidies?

I don't hate education or healthcare. But what we have in Ontario is an insatiable public service that will never be satisfied with what they have. You have to keep throwing money at it or they'll threaten to not teach our kids to read and/or allow our grandparents to die in the street.

Something has to give. Either we fundamentally change the way we deliver public services or we resign ourselves to the fact that taxes will continue to go up and up.

BTW there's a difference between lowering taxes to business and asking public services to cut back. Public services are entirely reliant on the taxpayer. Whereas a private business creates it wealth and the government takes money from it, when a tax cut is give it's not like that money is taken away from the government. The private citizen and/or business is just allowed to keep more.

[treehugger]

I don't hate education or healthcare. But what we have in Ontario is an insatiable public service that will never be satisfied with what they have. You have to keep throwing money at it or they'll threaten to not teach our kids to read and/or allow our grandparents to die in the street.

Something has to give. Either we fundamentally change the way we deliver public services or we resign ourselves to the fact that taxes will continue to go up and up.

BTW there's a difference between lowering taxes to business and asking public services to cut back. Public services are entirely reliant on the taxpayer. Whereas a private business creates it wealth and the government takes money from it, when a tax cut is give it's not like that money is taken away from the government. The private citizen and/or business is just allowed to keep more.

[/quot

A spokesman was on the news a couple of weeks ago, he represented the liberal party, he said: that there is going to be a green audit. This is for people who are selling their homes. It will cost the seller approx $300. to have the audit, whereas your home will be gone over and whatever isn't "green" will be listed for you to fix. Of course this will put the price of the house up considerably to sell and buy. It is supposed to protect the Ontario consumer.

It will not be put into practice until the Fall.

McGuinty just doesn't get it!

[Boges]

A spokesman was on the news a couple of weeks ago, he represented the liberal party, he said: that there is going to be a green audit. This is for people who are selling their homes. It will cost the seller approx $300. to have the audit, whereas your home will be gone over and whatever isn't "green" will be listed for you to fix. Of course this will put the price of the house up considerably to sell and buy. It is supposed to protect the Ontario consumer.

It will not be put into practice until the Fall.

McGuinty just doesn't get it!

I forgot about that one.

Let's just put it this way. Dalton is the Devil.

[Wild Bill]

This would be a good sell if Hudak wasn't keeping the health premium and most of the HST in place. That's right, the very things at the centre of Hudak's assault on the Liberals, he's going to keep largely intact. So McGuinty takes the political fall and Hudak keeps the bounty.

That's the plan, anyway--one likely to be exposed as duplicitous during the campaign.

It would only be fair to point out that Hudak CAN"T drop as much of the HST as some would want! The McGuinty/Flaherty deal came with a "poison pill". If Hudak opts out of the deal then Ontario has to pay a HUGE penalty back to the Feds!

Somehow, I don't think most Ontarioans would like that option, either.

Thanks for nothing, Dalton!

[Boges]

It would only be fair to point out that Hudak CAN"T drop as much of the HST as some would want! The McGuinty/Flaherty deal came with a "poison pill". If Hudak opts out of the deal then Ontario has to pay a HUGE penalty back to the Feds!

Somehow, I don't think most Ontarioans would like that option, either.

Thanks for nothing, Dalton!

I'm not as upset about the HST. If it does what the Feds promise then it's a good thing. But it does hurt a little bit regarding heating and hydro.

The $1,000 I got given over the past year certainly helped.

[Shwa]

Lasagna established the precedent. Fear that natives in any future protest might well be similarly armed is therefore only logical. Past deeds set a pattern, making future actions likely.

Yeah because every time I go into a bar in Montreal I expect to be murdered; every time I go to drop a letter off in a mailbox I am expecting it to explode. God forbid I visit the PEI Legislature. You know, because of "past deeds."

LOFL!

[Moonbox]

I'm not as upset about the HST. If it does what the Feds promise then it's a good thing. But it does hurt a little bit regarding heating and hydro.

The $1,000 I got given over the past year certainly helped.

I think I got $100. The HST will NOT do what the Feds promise it will. It's going to cost people that pay taxes more money. All it's really done is add taxes to things that weren't taxed before. Enjoy your next home purchase btw.

[Wild Bill]

Yeah because every time I go into a bar in Montreal I expect to be murdered; every time I go to drop a letter off in a mailbox I am expecting it to explode. God forbid I visit the PEI Legislature. You know, because of "past deeds."

LOFL!

Once again, a huge stretch of illogic. You might also cite that since Louis Riel murdered someone we shouldn't go to Winnipeg.

How about dragging in Cain and Abel, to keep us from visiting orchards?

There is a huge difference with your examples. It's one thing to be fearful when such things are fresh, as when Ipperwash happened only a short time after Oka. Caledonia and Mr. Brant have proven that in the case of native protests things have NOT quieted down!

The FLQ were apprehended and under a strange deal, deported to Cuba. Eventually, they were allowed to return, for reasons I've never understood. Still, we have not seen any such violent and murderous action in Quebec since.

If there was a wolf around last year it is only logical to watch out for one this year. If the last sighting was 40 years ago then no, it doesn't warrant a lot of attention

Caledonians know full well that there is still violence with native protests. Just how long after an incident should we wait before we are no longer cautious>

From your words, I would assume you'd suggest a weekend or two...unless it happened to natives, of course!

Why can't you just accept people as people, instead of putting one group or another on some kind of pedestal?

Edited June 25, 2011 by Wild Bill

[Topaz]

The Ontario NDP released their platform today and I wonder what anyone thinks about it. It seems they are watching the spending and are big in the healthcare. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/06/25/ndp-platform-release.html

[Jack Weber]

It would only be fair to point out that Hudak CAN"T drop as much of the HST as some would want! The McGuinty/Flaherty deal came with a "poison pill". If Hudak opts out of the deal then Ontario has to pay a HUGE penalty back to the Feds!

Somehow, I don't think most Ontarioans would like that option, either.

Thanks for nothing, Dalton!

You mean thanks for nothing Jim Flaharty...

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I think I got $100. The HST will NOT do what the Feds promise it will. It's going to cost people that pay taxes more money. All it's really done is add taxes to things that weren't taxed before. Enjoy your next home purchase btw.

I think Ernie Eves said it best.

(not really a quote, just kind of the gist of what he said)

"The reality is that the HST has never been about tax savings . It has always been meant for one thing and one thing only, to transfer the burden of tax to the consumer, away from businesses."

[Remiel]

I think Ernie Eves said it best.

(not really a quote, just kind of the gist of what he said)

"The reality is that the HST has never been about tax savings . It has always been meant for one thing and one thing only, to transfer the burden of tax to the consumer, away from businesses."

I do not quite get it: Do Conservatives not claim, almost without fail, that when you raise taxes on business it is just the consumers paying at the end of the day? How could both that, and HST shifting burden from business to consumer, be true?

[Shwa]

You're still full of shit.

Non-natives rarely go to such extremes. They usually obey the Law and do what they're told.

I proved you completely wrong - and full of shit - and you wanted to modify your statement:

And you Sir are so partisan that if a white man discovered a cure for cancer and gave it for free to all natives on reserves you would castigate him for putting doctors on reserves out of work!

So we go from "non-natives" to "white man" and somehow this involves a cure for cancer. But no, that isn't strange enough, now it is up to me to show an equivalent to the "Lasagna" character at Oka. LOFL!

There is a huge difference with your examples.

You have been proven wrong, you prove yourself to be a plain old bigot full of shit and you are not self-aware enough to do anything about it. All from the nice safe comfy confines of your computer chair.

A real piece of work. And a bit of a fraidy cat to boot.

[Wild Bill]

duplicate

Edited June 27, 2011 by Wild Bill

[Wild Bill]

You're still full of shit.

I proved you completely wrong - and full of shit - and you wanted to modify your statement:

So we go from "non-natives" to "white man" and somehow this involves a cure for cancer. But no, that isn't strange enough, now it is up to me to show an equivalent to the "Lasagna" character at Oka. LOFL!

You have been proven wrong, you prove yourself to be a plain old bigot full of shit and you are not self-aware enough to do anything about it. All from the nice safe comfy confines of your computer chair.

A real piece of work. And a bit of a fraidy cat to boot.

Bray all you want. The fact remains, you are still dodging coming up with an equivalent to Lasagna. The reason is obvious. You can't! Whenever you get backed into a corner you seem to consistently go all "ad hominem".

You and CR make a pretty pair. The world is divided into devils and saints. All natives are saints and all non-natives are devils. There is no inbetween. In all the months if not years now I have been reading the posts from the two of you I cannot think of ONE time when you have ever admitted that a native action was wrong, even in the slightest way.

Must be nice to live in such a world of perfection! I say again, why do you have to put some folks on a pedestal and not accept them as just ordinary, fallible human beings?

[Shwa]

Bray all you want. The fact remains...

... that you are still full of shit. And you know it. You got caught with your little bigoted bullshit head games and you are trying to split hairs to try and weasle out of it. Nuh-uh.

Why not admit you are an ordinary fallible little bigot and quit putting yourself and Mr. Canada on a pedestal?