game of thrones

[kimmy]

If you're looking for justice and happy endings, game of thrones is definitely the wrong universe to try to find those things in It's grim, gritty, and much of the time, pretty hopeless, and that's one of its distinguishing features from most other works of fantasy.

It's gotten to the point that an unhappy ending for Cersei would qualify as a happy ending. Even if it's watching her weep as snow zombies and eternal blizzards destroy everything she's fought for.

Still, maybe it's not as bleak as I'd figured. They still have to get Boromir out of prison somehow right? His picture's on the DVD set, they can't kill him off yet! Perhaps Robb will surprise us.

Yeah...I caught part of it again recently, and let's just say it's aged badly. Arnie's acting is so poor that even his constant grunts of pain or exertion sound forced and ridiculous. He was made to be the Terminator...but nothing else.

I recall chambers full of barely-clad harem girls, and a snake the size of Texas, and I recall James Earl Jones' eyes turning into snake eyes and then transforming into a snake entirely. And he took a snake and used it like an arrow and shot some chick with it... and I think there was some kind of big cult or something... and ... I remember dudes wearing really bad wigs that appeared to have been inspired by "This Is Spinal Tap".

All I really remember was that it was pretty trippy. If the new movie takes me to a trippy world, I might want to go back. Possibly with mind-altering substances to enhance the experience. If they just give me an angry dude with a sword avenging this and liberating that, it'll be pretty dull.

All I really remember form my boyhood reading of several of Robert E. Howard's Conan books was that they were incredibly bloody: lots of brains and entrails and bodies hewn in half. I loved them.

Just now, I checked out the wiki entry, and it credits Howard for the actual creation of the "sword and sorcery" genre, laying the ground for Tolkien, et al...and, presumably, for Game of Thrones as well.

I suspect they're using "sword and sorcery" to describe a sub-genre of fantasy, just as they use "high fantasy" to describe Tolkien's and similar work. I gather "sword and sorcery" refers to the lurid stories Howard published in "Weird Tales" magazine, and work inspired by them. Tolkien's work owes more to Nordic sagas and Arthurian legends and Beowulf and the Kalevala.

Tolkien's day job was as a professor of languages... he created imaginary languages for fun, then decided to create imaginary people who spoke them, then an imaginary world for them to live in, then an imaginary history for his imaginary world... and all of this was imagining was going on for a couple of decades before he decided to actually write a complete book set in his imaginary world. The Hobbit might have been published after Howard died, but Tolkien was already building Middle Earth when Howard was a toddler.

Weird Tales must have been quite a magazine... I recall that that's where H.P. Lovecraft's work was originally published as well, another author whose work was a powerful influence on everybody who followed, yet at the time was just filler in a pulp magazine.

-k

[Black Dog]

I like how Drogo's entire purpose on the show (besides being a walking public service announcement about the perils of excessive guyliner) is to cut promos on motherfuckers like a WWE Superstar. "let me tell you something, Gene. Next week! At Wrestlemania! I'm going to rape their women! Eat their babies! Shit in their shoes! Until the championship...er... iron chair...is mine!""

[bloodyminded]

I suspect they're using "sword and sorcery" to describe a sub-genre of fantasy, just as they use "high fantasy" to describe Tolkien's and similar work. I gather "sword and sorcery" refers to the lurid stories Howard published in "Weird Tales" magazine, and work inspired by them. Tolkien's work owes more to Nordic sagas and Arthurian legends and Beowulf and the Kalevala.

Tolkien's day job was as a professor of languages... he created imaginary languages for fun, then decided to create imaginary people who spoke them, then an imaginary world for them to live in, then an imaginary history for his imaginary world... and all of this was imagining was going on for a couple of decades before he decided to actually write a complete book set in his imaginary world. The Hobbit might have been published after Howard died, but Tolkien was already building Middle Earth when Howard was a toddler.

It would appear I didn't know any of this. Interesting stuff. I've never been a fan of Tolkien, aside from The Hobbit which truly transported me as a young lad. LoTR is nigh unreadable (I blaspheme), and I haven't read anything else.

Weird Tales must have been quite a magazine... I recall that that's where H.P. Lovecraft's work was originally published as well, another author whose work was a powerful influence on everybody who followed, yet at the time was just filler in a pulp magazine.

Yeah, good point. Disparate fans of fantasy or horror will have usually heard of this publication, sight unseen. I used to read a lot of Stephen King, and he's cited it many times.

Edited June 10, 2011 by bloodyminded

[kimmy]

I like how Drogo's entire purpose on the show (besides being a walking public service announcement about the perils of excessive guyliner) is to cut promos on motherfuckers like a WWE Superstar. "let me tell you something, Gene. Next week! At Wrestlemania! I'm going to rape their women! Eat their babies! Shit in their shoes! Until the championship...er... iron chair...is mine!""

Don't forget that he also reached down a dude's throat and ripped his tongue out! That's pretty bad-ass (although, not very realistic, because tongues are pretty slippery and probably hard to grip.)

Hey, he's a plot device. A big, strong, scary, muscular, rather handsome plot device...

It would appear I didn't know any of this. Interesting stuff. I've never been a fan of Tolkien, aside from The Hobbit which truly transported me as a young lad. LoTR is nigh unreadable (I blaspheme), and I haven't read anything else.

I think that (like Lovecraft) it's his ideas that made him popular, not his actual skill with prose. He was an academic with a vast knowledge of a large number of modern languages and extinct languages of northern Europe. And surviving examples of ancient languages are often in the form of sagas and epics and heroic verse. And I think that's kind of what inspired him as an author. I recall that not too long ago somebody published a big pile of Tolkien's academic work, including his translation and critique of Beowulf.

-k

[kimmy]

One of the things that's interesting about the show right now is that the 3 strongest characters are women. You wouldn't have really expected it to pan out that way based on earlier episodes.

Cersei, of course, is running everything at this point... or she thinks she is, at least. Nobody has been better at imposing their will.

Dany has evolved from frightened little pawn to a woman who feels confident enough to boss around a whole barbarian horde.

And Catelyn Stark, while not having the ambition of the other two, is the steel in Robb's spine as he leads the northmen to war. She guides and mentors him without ever undermining him in front of the lords under his command. The TV show doesn't make this as clear as it is in the book, but she's the glue holding Robb and the whole north army together.

One think I liked in the book that was missing from the show was that when Robb "called the banners", there were actual banners. It was described with some amount of pageantry, the banners of all the lords who came when Robb called them. I think we only saw Greatjon's banner, in the background in the dining hall. "Your meat... ...is bloody tough!" was a great scene on TV. Some of the other bannermen have also been cut or condensed into Greatjon for the sake of expedience and not having a cast of thousands. The Glovers, Bolton Roose, and a lord Tallhart appear to have been composited into Greatjon. Jorah's dad is a regular on the show, commanding the forces at The Wall. Jorah's mom also appears in the book, a grey-haired woman armored like a man, leading the Mormont forces. She tells Robb he's just a boy with no business leading an army... then adds that she has a grand-daughter he should meet.

One of my favorite moments on last week's episode was when Tyrion introduces his motley crew to his dad, and concludes with "...and Bronn, son of ... " then he and Bronn exchange blank looks. "You wouldn't know him," Bronn shrugs.

I also liked the part where Ned asked Varys who he really serves, and Varys replies "I serve the realm. Somebody has to." He has a point... none of the nobles, including Ned himself, has considered the lives of "the small people". They've all opted for paths that will lead to war that will cost thousands of lives. It would be nice to think that Varys is doing all of this work behind the scenes to try to prevent war and save all those lives. But we already saw Varys conspiring with Illio to --it looks like-- try to bring the barbarian horde across the sea, and as we saw this episode there couldn't be much worse for "the small people" than a Dothraki horde stampeding around Westeros. Still can't even guess what Varys' angle is.

I'm pretty stoked for tomorrow night's episode... it's the 2nd last, there should be great doings, and I can't read any farther in the book without spoiling it.

-k

[kimmy]

what

-k

[Bonam]

what

-k

Weren't expecting that?

[bloodyminded]

Good Lord, no.

(And thank you, Bonam, for your sensitivity to spoilers. I was positive that at the last second, the Cavalry would ride in and swoop him up, or the Marines would blow everyone away, or the King would say, "Ah, jest kiddin'!")

[kimmy]

I was just freaking floored. I was pretty much shell-shocked until bedtime. Even though I was aware of the premise that shocks would happened, I wasn't prepared for *that*.

It left me quite happy with my strategy of not reading ahead of the show, because if I'd read that in the book first, it just wouldn't have left me gobsmacked the way seeing it happen live did.

Which leaves me with a bit of dilemna. I've read that filming of season 2 begins next month, but it won't be on TV until next April. I don't know if I can wait that long to find out what happens next, yet I don't want to spoil it by reading the book first. argh!

-k

[Bonam]

Yeah all the careful plans laid to ruin because Joffre is a cruel little bastard. You can tell Cersei was not pleased, not pleased at all. The season finale tonight should be exciting!

As for your dilemma... it's kind of a spoiler either way. The show spoiling the books or the books spoiling the show. For me, I know it'd be all about wanting to find out what happens next in the story, regardless of the medium. I actually started rereading the whole series when the show came out, I'm on book 3 now. The fifth book, A Dance with Dragons, is supposed to come out in less than a month.

Although, if you really value being "gobsmacked" by the TV show, there's a few other moments like that in the series. Book 3 certainly takes the crown in that regard...

I do hope the TV series lasts the full 5 seasons (the 6th book won't be out by the time season 5 ends I don't think so they'd have to stop then).

[kimmy]

Yeah all the careful plans laid to ruin because Joffre is a cruel little bastard. You can tell Cersei was not pleased, not pleased at all.

Yes, I enjoyed seeing the "oh FUCK no!" look on her face as she realized that her cunning masterstroke was being undone by her dumb-shit offspring whose grasp of politics begins and ends with "I'm the King so everybody has to do what I want."

The scene early in the series where she tries to educate him on the way politics works gives some insight into what was going on in both of their heads at that moment.

Many excellent scenes on the TV show were scenes that don't appear in the books. Particularly scenes involving the Lannister family. Cersei's tutelage of Joffrey, Cersei and Robert talking about their marriage and the future of the kingdom, Jaime and Jory talking as Jaime stands guard outside Robert's bedchambers as he cavorts with a legion of prostitutes, and the touching father-son moment we had with Tywin and Jaime ... none appear in the book, because there's no Lannister point-of-view characters, but they've all been really good scenes that add depth to the characters. While it's somewhat blasphemous to say the movie beats the book... this is one area where the movie beats the book. They've greatly fleshed out the villains.

The season finale tonight should be exciting!

I can hardly wait. I'm stoked! Yet also sad that it's over.

As for your dilemma... it's kind of a spoiler either way. The show spoiling the books or the books spoiling the show. For me, I know it'd be all about wanting to find out what happens next in the story, regardless of the medium. I actually started rereading the whole series when the show came out, I'm on book 3 now. The fifth book, A Dance with Dragons, is supposed to come out in less than a month.

I'm surprised that there even is a fifth book, because I'd assumed from the title of the fourth book, "A Feast For Crows", that everybody would be dead and all that was left was carrion.

As a fan of the books, how do you feel about the TV show as far as being a true and worthy adaptation? Personally, from reading and watching simultaneously, I've been really impressed by how closely they complement each other. Everything just fits.

Although, if you really value being "gobsmacked" by the TV show, there's a few other moments like that in the series. Book 3 certainly takes the crown in that regard...

I do hope the TV series lasts the full 5 seasons (the 6th book won't be out by the time season 5 ends I don't think so they'd have to stop then).

When I saw the end of last week's episode, my first thought (once I'd recovered) was that I was so glad I saw that before I read it. I think I'm going to do the same thing in season 2. I wouldn't want to cost myself a moment like that.

-k

[Bonam]

Many excellent scenes on the TV show were scenes that don't appear in the books. Particularly scenes involving the Lannister family. Cersei's tutelage of Joffrey, Cersei and Robert talking about their marriage and the future of the kingdom, Jaime and Jory talking as Jaime stands guard outside Robert's bedchambers as he cavorts with a legion of prostitutes, and the touching father-son moment we had with Tywin and Jaime ... none appear in the book, because there's no Lannister point-of-view characters, but they've all been really good scenes that add depth to the characters.

Wasn't Tyrion frequently a point-of-view character? Anyway, just wait a few books on that front

And yeah, I agree, the scenes they added that weren't in the books were great. For me, being very familiar with the books, they were among the best, since they added something new to the story that I didn't already know.

I can hardly wait. I'm stoked! Yet also sad that it's over.

Definitely, for each show that I really enjoyed, I was really sad after I knew there would be no more episodes. At least with this one there will be more, we just gotta wait a year.

I'm surprised that there even is a fifth book, because I'd assumed from the title of the fourth book, "A Feast For Crows", that everybody would be dead and all that was left was carrion.

Haha yes it does give that impression. There's always more people to kill, however.

As a fan of the books, how do you feel about the TV show as far as being a true and worthy adaptation? Personally, from reading and watching simultaneously, I've been really impressed by how closely they complement each other. Everything just fits.

I think they've done an excellent job, as well. I mean, there are a few discrepancies here and there, but everything crucial to the plot has been preserved faithfully. I'm not very nitpicky when it comes to things like that though. For example, I know lots of people raged about the differences between the LoTR books and the movies, but personally I didn't really care and thought they were great movies and faithful enough to the books.

There is a downside to them being that faithful though, because I know beforehand most of what's gonna happen in any given episode. Definitely does make the show less exciting.

When I saw the end of last week's episode, my first thought (once I'd recovered) was that I was so glad I saw that before I read it. I think I'm going to do the same thing in season 2. I wouldn't want to cost myself a moment like that.

Well, you must have a strong will. I wouldn't be able to resist reading the rest of the story over the next few months

Edited June 20, 2011 by Bonam

[Bonam]

So, you guys see the finale yet?

[kimmy]

I did!

The final scene made my eyes tear up.

First off, because it was just so beautiful. It gave me that sense of wonderment that reminds me why I love this sort of thing in the first place. It was just enchanting.

Secondly, because it was like our little girl is all grown up now. She started off as this scared helpless little thing, and look what she's become. By episode 8 she'd become a strong woman, but all that strength was derived from being Mrs Drogo. When he took ill and that guy told her that she'd be nothing once he was dead, it kind of seemed like he was right. Not so, she replies, I'm not nothing, I was never nothing. And it turns out she was right. Now she's strong because of who she is, not who she's married to or what she has in her belly. I mean, of course I'm assuming that those kittens are going to get bigger. If that's as big as they get, she should probably call off the invasion.

The third reason it made me tear up was, ridiculously, because it reminded me of the day I got my kitty. I'd asked my parents for years if I could have a dog, the answer was always no. Then they gave my little brother a dog, and I was, as you might expect, furious. Then one day, "surprise!" they thrust this stupid little kitten at me, and I was ready to hate it because it was such a pathetically transparent attempt to buy my affection, and because it was not a dog. But it looked at me and reached out with his tiny little paws and cried out "mehhhh!!!" and it melted my heart. And when Dany's little guy climbed onto her shoulder and let loose his triumphant "mehhhh!" it reminded me of that moment. And it made me all emotional, because

...

...anyway...

This was really Dany's episode, not just the epic final scene, but also everything leading up to it, from her grief at the miscarriage and Drogo's catatonic state to euthanizing him to how she dealt with Mirri Maz Dur. When Mirri Maz defiantly told her "You will not hear my screams!" I loved how she replied "I will."

What was really great about this was that they spent the whole season building that scene. It didn't just happen, she paid for that moment with every moment before it. She's been pondering those eggs every episode. They've been hinting that she wouldn't burn right from the first moment we met her, when she steps into the scalding bath without flinching. And when she put them on the pyre, you had to know it was coming, yet it was still incredibly awesome.

...

So, among the non-Dany parts of the episode...

I'm not really sure what the point of the scene with Grand Maester Pycelle and Roz the hooker was. Was it just an excuse to put Rather Attractive Roz on the screen one last time? Or was there some plot point we were supposed to get out of it. What I got out of it, I guess, is ... Grand Maester P wanders around hunched over like a feeble old man... but in this scene as soon as Roz is out the door we see him doing deep knee bends and standing up straight, right until he's dressed and heading out, then he's feeble again. So ... like everybody else in town he's putting on a facade. Maybe we're supposed to think that Grand Maester P's blathering about Joffrey's future greatness was a bunch of crap he was saying so that Roz would mention it to Littlefinger. Or maybe I'm overthinking it and it was just an excuse to put Rather Attractive Roz on the screen one last time.

Varys and Littlefinger sniping at each other didn't really serve much purpose either. They did the same thing earlier in the show, and this didn't really reveal anything new. Dany's eggs were a gift from Illirio, and Illirio and Varys were conspiring in an early episode, and the eggs had to come from the Red Keep, so it appears that Varys wanted Dany to have the eggs. Wonder why?

I felt that the bits at the Wall were a little hammy. The love Jon's friends feel for him feels authentic, but the bit about reciting their vows again seemed a little cheesy. As did the drums and horns and voiceover as the watchmen gird up to ride out. It had something of a Shatneresque quality to it, I felt.

Cersei's crafty plans have been ruined by her idiot son... she's in deep shit with dad... and her beloved Jaime is imprisoned by the Starks. Cersei seeks comfort in the arms of ... wait, is that Lancel Lannister?! Oh Cersei... sweetheart, we need to talk...

I do like Jaime. If he weren't in love with the worst woman in the world and desperately trying to please the worst dad in the world, he'd probably be a dashing rogue or lovable rascal. "You should get some sleep... it's going to be a long war." One thing I wasn't clear on: Robb and his lords were arguing about whether Renly or Stannis was the rightful king. But unless they knew that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son, wouldn't they think Joffrey the rightful heir? And didn't the secret of Joffrey's parentage die with Ned? Robb should probably ship Jaime to Stannis as a gift. We have yet to see Stannis; I gather we're supposed to get that he's a serious bad-ass from the way others talk about him.

In this episode Sansa has transformed into Li'l Cersei. Like Cersei, Sansa is a bitter and hate-filled girl who will be wed to a guy she despises and is planning to kill. In Cersei's case, the hate part didn't happen until the honeymoon, and the planning to kill part took longer, so Sansa has a head start. When The Hound stopped her from shoving Joffrey off the catwalk... was he protecting Joffrey, or was he protecting Sansa? In the book, when he walks her home from the tournament he becomes angry with her feigned politeness and her attempts to hide her disgust at his horrific scars, and he confronts her and makes her look at it and tells her the story behind it... and afterward they sit silently for a long time and she tells him that Gregor is no true knight. Reading that scene I wondered whether she'd won a bit of respect from him. And here I'm wondering if he felt a bit of sympathy for her. "Spare yourself some pain..." "Keep it... you'll need it again." Sandor knows as well as anyone what a miserable piece of crap Joffrey is. Of course, even if he did want to help her, there's not actually anything he can do for her anyway.

I liked the scene with Tyrion and Tywin. Even though Tyrion pretends not to care, he still craves validation. It felt good to see him receive the strong vote of confidence from Tywin, and the affirmation "You're my son." As close to a touching family moment as you could get in that twisted clan. Shae The Funny Whore will be an interesting plot element to watch next season. I don't think for a moment that she's what she appears. Shae the Funny Dornish Assassin seems more likely... on a related note, I hope we haven't seen the last of Bronn. He and Tyrion make a lovable team.

And I'm certainly looking forward to seeing Tyrion slap some sense into Joffrey.

-k

[Bonam]

A fun to read analysis there. You should post these to some blog or something. I think you've written one for each episode as we went along, no?

I take it you're now rooting for House Targaryen based on Dany's performance?

A few thoughts:

In this episode Sansa has transformed into Li'l Cersei. Like Cersei, Sansa is a bitter and hate-filled girl who will be wed to a guy she despises and is planning to kill.

I don't think Cersei is stupid enough to afflict her son with a wife like herself. Anyway, now that the gloves are off, if Tywin is victorious in the war, one would think he'd destroy house Stark, making it pointless for Joffrey to marry Sansa. And if Robb is victorious, it's unlikely he would let his sister marry into the clan of his blood enemies, if he leaves any of them alive that is.

I do like Jaime. If he weren't in love with the worst woman in the world and desperately trying to please the worst dad in the world, he'd probably be a dashing rogue or lovable rascal.

I dunno how "bad" his dad really is. I mean, he cares for the well-being of his children, his expectations of them are high but not impossible, and he is smart and rich and powerful. Of course, he's what we would consider to be a horrible person in that he is willing to see countless thousands die in his quest to make his family ever more powerful, but he's not necessarily that bad as a dad.

One thing I wasn't clear on: Robb and his lords were arguing about whether Renly or Stannis was the rightful king. But unless they knew that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son, wouldn't they think Joffrey the rightful heir? And didn't the secret of Joffrey's parentage die with Ned?

I actually don't remember what the book said on that topic at all. Maybe Ned got a message out to Catelyn or to the Maester at Winterfell about what he had discovered?

Anyway, I liked that scene where they proclaimed Robb to be the King of the North. Also, I liked when Robb said he was gonna "kill them all", and Catelyn was like "no we have to free you sisters..." and then added "and THEN we'll kill them all!" Haha, good times.

Nice video btw

Edited June 22, 2011 by Bonam

[Remiel]

I believe you will find it was Loras Tyrell with Cersei.

[kimmy]

I believe you will find it was Loras Tyrell with Cersei.

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work there, Remiel.

Ser Loras fled King's Landing with Renly several episodes ago. Renly has been declared a traitor; Loras is a suspected confederate of Renly's, so it would be very dangerous for Loras to return to King's Landing. He'd probably end up as a hostage in the dungeon, if not on a spike next to Ned.

Also, something mentioned in the book makes it an impossibility; it's something the producers are keeping in their back pocket until season two, so I won't mention it, but trust me, it couldn't be Loras.

Also, Cersei is not Loras' type (ie, she's a she... )

Also, IMDB confirms that Lancel was in episode 10 and Loras wasn't.

A fun to read analysis there. You should post these to some blog or something. I think you've written one for each episode as we went along, no?

I suspect they're fun to read because as I flounder along trying to guess where things are heading, you're thinking to yourself "*snicker* Boy are you in for a shock!"

I write a bit myself, and I also spent several years in a writing group doing editing and providing advice to other would-be writers. So thinking analytically about how to tell stories kind of comes naturally for me, and some of what I've written in this thread is kind of me thinking out loud as I try to analyze how they're telling the story. Some of it has been just me needing to vent/emote/aarrrgggh!

Anyway, being able to chat about the show with you gentlemen has been a lot of fun. Kind of like book club, but with less reading. It's been a pleasure walking down the Kingsroad with you guys.

I take it you're now rooting for House Targaryen based on Dany's performance?

I've already pledged my sword to House "Wants to see Cersei weep hot, bitter tears" but I would rally to the banner of House "King Joffster's Head On A Spike" if they called.

I don't think Cersei is stupid enough to afflict her son with a wife like herself. Anyway, now that the gloves are off, if Tywin is victorious in the war, one would think he'd destroy house Stark, making it pointless for Joffrey to marry Sansa. And if Robb is victorious, it's unlikely he would let his sister marry into the clan of his blood enemies, if he leaves any of them alive that is.

That occured to me: Sansa's value as a hostage probably doesn't last much longer, and she doesn't have any further value as a strategic marriage for Joffrey.

But then again, the Joffster clearly isn't much of a strategic thinker. And Cersei might not have any say in who he marries... she seems to have lost her control over him.

I dunno how "bad" his dad really is. I mean, he cares for the well-being of his children, his expectations of them are high but not impossible, and he is smart and rich and powerful. Of course, he's what we would consider to be a horrible person in that he is willing to see countless thousands die in his quest to make his family ever more powerful, but he's not necessarily that bad as a dad.

You just like him because he's living the libertarian dream.

I actually don't remember what the book said on that topic at all. Maybe Ned got a message out to Catelyn or to the Maester at Winterfell about what he had discovered?

Anyway, I liked that scene where they proclaimed Robb to be the King of the North. Also, I liked when Robb said he was gonna "kill them all", and Catelyn was like "no we have to free you sisters..." and then added "and THEN we'll kill them all!" Haha, good times.

As somebody rooted in Tolkien, this display of hubris made me uneasy. If this was JRR Tolkien, his newly swollen head would lead to inevitable ruin. But since it's GRR Martin, who knows.

Nice video btw

The slapping, or One And A Half Men? I love the team... they've gotta take Bronn along to King's Landing. The slapping was strangely therapeutic... I couldn't stop watching it.

-k

{"In this land of dire wolves and lions, sometimes the rarest creature is... a friend."}

[Bonam]

I've already pledged my sword to House "Wants to see Cersei weep hot, bitter tears" but I would rally to the banner of House "King Joffster's Head On A Spike" if they called.

You and me both.

That occured to me: Sansa's value as a hostage probably doesn't last much longer, and she doesn't have any further value as a strategic marriage for Joffrey.

But then again, the Joffster clearly isn't much of a strategic thinker. And Cersei might not have any say in who he marries... she seems to have lost her control over him.

I think it was this episode or last where Joffrey said to Sansa "my mother says I still must marry you", so she clearly has some influence. Besides, he's about to get some tough love from uncle Tyrion.

You just like him because he's living the libertarian dream.

Haha

As somebody rooted in Tolkien, this display of hubris made me uneasy. If this was JRR Tolkien, his newly swollen head would lead to inevitable ruin. But since it's GRR Martin, who knows.

Like the Oath of Feanor?

The slapping, or One And A Half Men? I love the team... they've gotta take Bronn along to King's Landing. The slapping was strangely therapeutic... I couldn't stop watching it.

Both, I actually only saw the slapping one before, but the 1.5 men was hilarious also.

[Boges]

After skimming this thread I have to say. . . Lot's of you guise are prudes.

So what if there are some boobies in Game of Thrones? Have you seen Spartacus? It's broadcast on the same network in Canada.

And to the time of day it's broadcast, that's irrelevant. It's a subscription service. Anyone who has TMN probably has access to TMN onDemand. Anytime of day you can access these shows.

The Violence and Sexual content is actually pretty tame if you ask me. Any show on HBO has this though. Boardwalk Empire is a perfect example.

About the show, I love it! I never read the books but all the character dynamics are great. You care about Daenerys Targaryen, Rob Stark, and Jon Snow. You despise the Lannisters, well all except Tyrion.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Boges

[Black Dog]

My one beef so far is that for a show with such a huge budget, they haven't exactly delivered on the "epic" front. For example, all the big the battles have taken place off screen (Rome had the same problems). Now I know it's TV and vast army's of CGI doods would be pretty cheesy, but I have to wonder what they're spending all their money on. Make up? Hair extensions?

Plot wise, this show is shaping up just like "the Wire'; the cops never get their man, the good guys end up far worse off than when they started, the bad guys keep being bad, the King...stay the King.

Looking forward to S2, that's for sure.

[Boges]

Well the scale of the king and detail have certainly been grand. That castle in the Eyrie was fantastic. The whole treatment of the Dothraki storyline was great.

There has only really been one battle at this point of the show and that was treated fairly well. It was just a decoy so why should the creators have wasted money and valuable airtime showing every detail of a battle. We found out what happened very quickly afterwards.

Now if all battles, from now on, are treated that way, then I'd have a problem.

[kimmy]

After skimming this thread I have to say. . . Lot's of you guise are prudes.

So what if there are some boobies in Game of Thrones? Have you seen Spartacus? It's broadcast on the same network in Canada.

Welcome Boges! Choose a sigil and family motto.

In regard to sex, I think that while a few people earlier expressed a dislike of sex on TV in general, I think the more valid complaint in regard to Game Of Thrones is that it's become a bit of a running gag; people have taken to calling it "sexposition", as in if somebody's going to do some expository dialog they need a moaning hooker to tell it to. It's gotten to the point that people are making fun of it, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

My one beef so far is that for a show with such a huge budget, they haven't exactly delivered on the "epic" front. For example, all the big the battles have taken place off screen (Rome had the same problems). Now I know it's TV and vast army's of CGI doods would be pretty cheesy, but I have to wonder what they're spending all their money on. Make up? Hair extensions?

...guyliner... Sean Bean... I think that without Sean Bean next season, that will free up some money for the CGI department.

Some of the sets are pretty grand (although I think I heard they've been able to borrow some of the sets... the throne room in the Eyrie was made for a movie having something to do with a princess or something.) Even though they've avoided taking us to some of the locations in the book, they've still had to do several major sets, particularly in King's Landing. I think they made a decision to do a handful of sets really well rather than do more things badly, which overall I think is probably better.

Still, they'll have to step up. There's war on the horizon and they won't be able to knock the point-of-view character unconscious for every battle. They'll need to boost the special effects budget as well, especially now that they have to put a notable fantasy element on TV. People noticed that the fearsome direwolves were actually friendly dogs and went missing for episodes at a time... they're sure to notice if the dragons aren't around.

Plot wise, this show is shaping up just like "the Wire'; the cops never get their man, the good guys end up far worse off than when they started, the bad guys keep being bad, the King...stay the King.

Looking forward to S2, that's for sure.

While being good clearly doesn't pay off... it's not clear that being bad turns out any better. The bad-guys had all the cards, but have ended up in a very precarious position too. Their heads are all still attached... for the time being... but that's not necessarily a permanent condition.

I think it was this episode or last where Joffrey said to Sansa "my mother says I still must marry you", so she clearly has some influence. Besides, he's about to get some tough love from uncle Tyrion.

Now that he's king he's less likely to take kindly to getting bitchslapped. Sandor warned Tyrion "he'll remember that..." the first time. I can only wonder how they're going to get a handle on the little moron.

Like the Oath of Feanor?

Well, that would be the prime example. It was also the main lesson of the Akallabeth. Then there's also the 9 lords who put on those stupid rings. Or Sauron. Or Melkor himself. Or Saruman. Or ... well, basically pretty much anybody who starts thinking that they're a big deal.

-k

[bloodyminded]

After skimming this thread I have to say. . . Lot's of you guise are prudes.

So what if there are some boobies in Game of Thrones? Have you seen Spartacus? It's broadcast on the same network in Canada.

And to the time of day it's broadcast, that's irrelevant. It's a subscription service. Anyone who has TMN probably has access to TMN onDemand. Anytime of day you can access these shows.

The Violence and Sexual content is actually pretty tame if you ask me. Any show on HBO has this though. Boardwalk Empire is a perfect example.

I have no problem whatsoever with the sexual content.

Boardwalk Empire rocks!

Edited June 27, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Remiel]

My bad, kimmy.

In any case, I would not be surprised if they are trying to save money to do the dragons justice in the next season. Also, even when you discount the highest paid actors on the show, there are a LOT of major characters to shell out for. I mean, while the is rather unscientific, Game of Thrones probably has more characters in one season than Rome had in two. But they also have more variety (and complexity) in locales, costumes, and special effects. How many trained animals did they have in Rome that were not horses?

[blueblood]

Had to dvr the series because it was on during my silly season of work. I thought it was outstanding except for the excessive sex. King robert was the man with tyrion being a close 2nd. Liked ned and jon except that they're too nice. Snapped up the books on my ipad kindle app which means there is some considerable reading to do.

My thanks to kimmy for her interesting posts regarding the series.

My one question is if hbo does the whole series what's going to happen when they finish season five and the sixth book will probably not be written yet. To me that grinds my gears, quitting something halfway through.