game of thrones

[Argus]

On 8/7/2017 at 10:22 PM, kimmy said:

Meanwhile up North... Sansa and Arya and Bran have all grown so much since they last saw each other in Season 1. Not just physically. Sansa was a star-struck innocent with dreams of being the Queen.  Now she's scarred and hardened and savvy and calculating. Arya was a girl who liked to play with swords, and now she's a ninja warrior assassin who has killed more people than small-pox.

The names on Arya's death list, who thinks Sansa's is one of them?

[-1=e^ipi]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

The names on Arya's death list, who thinks Sansa's is one of them?

After tonight, it looks like Arya will try to kill Sansa and Littlefinger will save her.

 

Edit: let me modify that prediction. Littlefinger will save Sansa from Arya using Brienne.

Edited August 14, 2017 by -1=e^ipi

[-1=e^ipi]

10 hours ago, kimmy said:

All she has left going for her is Euron Greyjoy's fleet, and Euron knows it.

And the Iron Bank, the Golden Company, Qyburn, his little birds that will kill people for sugar, the zombie mountain and time. Also, Dorne is still available.

 

10 hours ago, kimmy said:

Ultimately, there's two ways this series ends. Either Dany wins and teams up with Jon to battle the white walkers, or Cersei wins and the white walkers decimate everything, because Cersei doesn't know or care about fighting white walkers.

After this episode, no way the series is going in that direction. Cersei will make a truce, let Dany & Jon deal with the white walkers, then kill them both once the white walkers are dead. Cersei lives until late season 7, I think. Maybe Littlefinger or Sansa will win out in the end though.

[Boges]

Cersei has no standing army. I don't even know why the Westerosi Avengers are risking their lives to convince her of the army of the dead. 

So if anyone didn't catch it, Gilly gave us the biggest moment of the week by reading that Rhegar Targaryan did marry Lyanna Stark. 

That means Jon isn't a bastard and has the best claim to the throne of anyone. Even over Dany... And Gendry. 

Nice to see Gendry back, though he may not survive long though. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Boges

[Argus]

 

54 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cersei has no standing army. I don't even know why the Westerosi Avengers are risking their lives to convince her of the army of the dead. 

I'm thinking that, given the options of submitting to Danys and getting executed, and fighting her and losing and getting executed, Cersei might even try to reach an 'accommodation' with the Night King. If he's willing to kill her but bring her back as his chief lieutenant, say, so she can get revenge on everyone....

[kimmy]

42 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cersei has no standing army. I don't even know why the Westerosi Avengers are risking their lives to convince her of the army of the dead.

Yeah. This is the stupidest thing the writers have ever come up with.  The thinking is apparently that Cersei will agree to a ceasefire while Dany goes north to fight the white walkers.  It makes zero sense.

Last week Dany is all hot to vanquish her foes, and this week she's ready to put her war on hold because Jon received a raven? Whaaaa?

Tyrion has everybody convinced that Cersei will accept an armistice if they bring a white walker to King's Landing?  Whaaaa?

Tyrion thinks that his sister would actually honor said armistice?  Whaaaa? 

Has he even met his sister?  Oh yeah, she's the one who spent season 4 trying to get him executed. He knows better than anyone that she's a ruthless honorless serpent. But he still thinks she'd stand idly by while Dany takes her army north?  Whaaaa?

The idea that anybody at the table would buy into this plan is so absurd. I can accept dragons and red witches and stuff like that, because it's part of the mythology of the show. But people trusting in such a naive and stupid plan isn't part of the mythology of the show.  We might look back on this as a "Jump The Shark" moment.

On the bright side, we get the Westerosi Avengers! The Magnificent Seven! Woo-hoo!

42 minutes ago, Boges said:

So if anyone didn't catch it, Gilly gave us the biggest moment of the week by reading that Rhegar Targaryan did marry Lyanna Stark. 

That means Jon isn't a bastard and has the best claim to the throne of anyone. Even over Dany... And Gendry. 

Nice to see Gendry back, though he may not survive long though. 

Yeah, that was kind of fun that they just slipped that in there in a throwaway moment. Samwell didn't have any reason to think it was of any significance. Maybe he will have a flashback to that moment at some point in the future when the information that so far only Bran knows is revealed. "Oh yes, come to think of it, Gilly saw something in a book about Prince Rhaegar getting annulled and remarried. Gilly, do you recall that book about bowel movements? We need to find that again."

Jon goes from Jon Snow, Ned's Bastard, to Jon Targaryen, legitimate son of Prince Rhaegar and heir to the Targaryen line.

Gendry was like "hey, bro, our dads were bros! Let's be bros, bro!" but the truth is like "hey, bro! My dad smashed your dad's chest in with his warhammer at the Battle of the Trident, bro!"

After the scene with Jon and the dragon,  Dany might already suspect that Jon is a blood relative (or, in Targaryen terms, "marriage material.")

 -k

[kimmy]

14 hours ago, Argus said:

The names on Arya's death list, who thinks Sansa's is one of them?

I read your comment before last night's episode, and I thought "that would be a huge shock, but it would make a certain amount of sense."  One could make the argument that bad decisions Sansa made in season 1 caused Ned to be executed, and it could have been that Arya held her responsible.

After last night's episode, I think the answer to your question is "she wasn't before, but she probably is now."

The letter that Littlefinger found and leaked to Arya was the letter Sansa wrote under duress in season 2 (I think it's season 2, anyway) urging Robb to come to King's Landing and surrender.

 -k

[Argus]

5 minutes ago, kimmy said:

I read your comment before last night's episode, and I thought "that would be a huge shock, but it would make a certain amount of sense."  One could make the argument that bad decisions Sansa made in season 1 caused Ned to be executed, and it could have been that Arya held her responsible.

Arya expressed her hatred of Sansa back in season one/two(?), when Sansa sided with Joffrey, and lied for him, after he assaulted that boy she was with, and the boy wound up being executed for defending himself. And she's never, to my memory, spoken of her sister since with anything but anger. Arya has come to be a person who makes black and white decisions without conscience, and without putting a lot of thought into it or demanding a lot of evidence. This one is bad, he dies. This one is okay. 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Argus

[kimmy]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm thinking that, given the options of submitting to Danys and getting executed, and fighting her and losing and getting executed, Cersei might even try to reach an 'accommodation' with the Night King. If he's willing to kill her but bring her back as his chief lieutenant, say, so she can get revenge on everyone....

My impression of how that negotiation would go:

Cersei:  "Your grace. I wish to discuss a proposal. An alliance of sorts."

Night King: "                       ."

Cersei: "A man of few words. I respect that. You are King of the lands beyond the wall. I am the Queen of the lands south of the wall. By combining our --- errrr, what are you doing?"

Night King: "                       ."

Cersei: "Well. As I say. If we combine our forces, we could crush our enemies, as--- excuse me! What are you doing? Unhand me, sir."

Night King: "                       ."

Cersei: "...   braiiiinzzzzzz"

Ser Gregor: "...   braiinnnnzzzzz"

 -k

[Argus]

Just now, kimmy said:

My impression of how that negotiation would go:

Cersei:  "Your grace. I wish to discuss a proposal. An alliance of sorts."

I would suggest she would instead send an emissary, expecting him to be killed, but the Night King would get the message. And the message would not be an alliance. Cersei would basically offer up all her people, order them to disarm, and let the Night King have them on condition he take her as a lieutenant. And why wouldn't he? She'd make a fine lieutenant, the cold hearted bloodless bitch.

[kimmy]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

 She'd make a fine lieutenant, the cold hearted bloodless bitch.

Oh, speaking of that.  She now says she has a bun in the oven.

Does she? Or is this just a ploy to retain Jaime's loyalty?

 -k

[dialamah]

Did anyone notice the look on Jaime's face when she said "Don't ever betray me again."   He's been looking at her doubtfully more often lately so I wonder if he won't eventually turn on her.  

[Boges]

In the books there is a prophecy that Cersei will be killed by her younger brother. Technically Jamie is her younger brother. 

[kimmy]

12 hours ago, Boges said:

In the books there is a prophecy that Cersei will be killed by her younger brother. Technically Jamie is her younger brother. 

The witch also told Cersei that she'd have three children. If the witch is right, that would tell us that either Cersei isn't actually pregnant, or that she isn't going to live long enough to have her 4th child.

 -k

[Argus]

Has anyone noticed the odd dearth of romance in this series? I mean, there's almost always a 'love interest' in almost every type of story. The original Starks were happily married, but that didn't last long because Ned Stark didn't last long. I think Tyrion had that hooker girlfriend until she betrayed him to his dad. None of the other main characters have had any partners/love interests unless you count Jamie and Cersei's incestuous romping. All I can think of is Missandie and the Grey worm.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Has anyone noticed the odd dearth of romance in this series? I mean, there's almost always a 'love interest' in almost every type of story. The original Starks were happily married, but that didn't last long because Ned Stark didn't last long. I think Tyrion had that hooker girlfriend until she betrayed him to his dad. None of the other main characters have had any partners/love interests unless you count Jamie and Cersei's incestuous romping. All I can think of is Missandie and the Grey worm.

- Jon and Ygritte
- Rob Stark married for love and it got him killed because he was promised to a Frey. 
- Robert's Rebellion was started because he genuinely loved Lyanna Stark. And it appears Rheagar loved her too. 
- Ser Friendzone/Jorah Mormont loves Dany. 
- I think Loras and Renly loved eachother. 
- Littlefinger loved Catlyn Stark and most certainly loves Sansa Stark. 
- Tormont loves Brienne but it's not mutual. 
- Jamie loves Cersei . . . for now. 
- Missy and the Worm
- And of course the obvious case of legit love that's actually been largely rewarded. . . Sam and Gilly. 

This is not a traditional story with no obvious protagonist/antagonist. And with the feudal system, pairbonding was more of a political union than a romantic one. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Boges

[taxme]

I am just where that ass hole of a king just got poisoned. I did not think that he was going to die the way he did. I was looking more towards a more gruesome revenge end for that little scum bag.  Aw well. 

[kimmy]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

I am just where that ass hole of a king just got poisoned. I did not think that he was going to die the way he did. I was looking more towards a more gruesome revenge end for that little scum bag.  Aw well. 

But it was sure satisfying seeing the little puke turn purple and choked to death, wasn't it?  Fun times! 

 -k

[Argus]

15 hours ago, kimmy said:

But it was sure satisfying seeing the little puke turn purple and choked to death, wasn't it?  Fun times! 

 -k

I never really accepted the reality that they would all instantly blame and then convict Tyrnian simply because the little shit ordered him to pour the wine for him. I thought it was very weak writing.

[Argus]

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

- Jon and Ygritte

Not sure If I'd call that a full blown romance. Certainly they had a thing going until she tried to kill him.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

Rob Stark married for love and it got him killed because he was promised to a Frey. 

Okay, yes, for almost a full season.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

- Robert's Rebellion was started because he genuinely loved Lyanna Stark. And it appears Rheagar loved her too. 

Past history

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

Ser Friendzone/Jorah Mormont loves Dany. 

Middle aged men often lust after young blonde hotties half their age. That's not a romance unless the hotty lusts back - which they rarely do.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

 I think Loras and Renly loved eachother. 

Meh. Think is not a romance.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

Littlefinger loved Catlyn Stark and most certainly loves Sansa Stark. 

Littlefinger loved her mother in the past. Now he only loves Littlefinger.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

 

- Tormont loves Brienne but it's not mutual.

Then it doesn't count.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

- Jamie loves Cersei . . . for now. 
- Missy and the Worm
- And of course the obvious case of legit love that's actually been largely rewarded. . . Sam and Gilly. 

Forgot about Sam.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:47 PM, Boges said:

This is not a traditional story with no obvious protagonist/antagonist. And with the feudal system, pairbonding was more of a political union than a romantic one. 

That never stops other stories. It's like it's a rule, especially if there's any women characters, that they have to be involved with some guy. This one has lots of female characters but very little of that kind of romance.

[Boges]

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

That never stops other stories. It's like it's a rule, especially if there's any women characters, that they have to be involved with some guy. This one has lots of female characters but very little of that kind of romance.

Also in an show where so many people get murdered, it's hard to keep relationships, of any kind, together for so long. 

Having Rob Stark dying goes against many tenants of traditional storytelling. 

[taxme]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Also in an show where so many people get murdered, it's hard to keep relationships, of any kind, together for so long. 

Having Rob Stark dying goes against many tenants of traditional storytelling. 

I wished that Stark were still alive, and maybe in time he would get his revenge against that little puke bag of a king.  Aw well. 

[taxme]

15 hours ago, kimmy said:

But it was sure satisfying seeing the little puke turn purple and choked to death, wasn't it?  Fun times! 

 -k

Indeed. Looks like fun times ahead. I have so much to catch up on that I am now watching about three to four past episodes a night. I am really hooked on this show. 

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, taxme said:

I wished that Stark were still alive, and maybe in time he would get his revenge against that little puke bag of a king.  Aw well. 

Walder Frey or Joffery? 

He doesn't need to be alive for them to get what's coming. 

[Boges]