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Posted

Forgive me for adding a thread when we have so many on the go about the election, but I though this might be fun to do... We can disect the claims that all five leaders are making.

For instance:

Listening to Harper today while giving a speech in Brampton ON. he mentioned that under his leadership Canada has reduced the cost of Government. Didn't we just hear less than a week ago that by utilizing contract employees that the costs were 78% higher? It seems that this should be pretty easy to disprove.

"They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Posted (edited)

this thread isn't to bash Harper, I'd love to see us examine all the statements by all the leaders. The one I mentioned just happened to be Harper, could have been any of them.

Edited by Shakeyhands

"They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Posted

Listening to Harper today while giving a speech in Brampton ON. he mentioned that under his leadership Canada has reduced the cost of Government. Didn't we just hear less than a week ago that by utilizing contract employees that the costs were 78% higher? It seems that this should be pretty easy to disprove.

I like the premise of this thread.

I guess it's all in how you define 'cost'.

Posted

Bob rae on the cbc talking about how harper is using scare tactics as a campaign strategy and how bad of an idea it is. Appears its fine for chretien and martin to use them but not harper...

"Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary

"Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary

Economic Left/Right: 4.00

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77

Posted

You raise a good point.

The problem here is that you still seem to expect the conservatives and Harper to tell the truth. We have already established they don't.

Lawyers never tell the truth - they would be out of a job if they did...Deception and shrewd cruel opportunism is what it is all about - all power is tacit....it's a poker game played by the finest and most highly trained liars..what else is new?

Posted

Lawyers never tell the truth - they would be out of a job if they did...Deception and shrewd cruel opportunism is what it is all about - all power is tacit....it's a poker game played by the finest and most highly trained liars..what else is new?

For all you partizan hacks accusing Harper et al of lying, how's your Liberal dudes doing, especially when they were in power?

It's called politics and I am getting more and more sick of it. I am very right wing. Harper, before he had power was also. Now he has some power he just wants more so will say and do anything he thinks will get him more. Just like Trudeau and Chretien did. Martin not so much, so he lost. I really wish the pots would quit calling the kettles black. And that goes from either side.

The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.

Posted

Come on you guys! Trudeau, Martin and Chretien aren't running in this election (or the one before this either :blink: ).

This one could be a really interesting conversation, but if CPC partisans don't hold up thei end of it, it won't be.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

— L. Frank Baum

"For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale

Posted

For all you partizan hacks accusing Harper et al of lying, how's your Liberal dudes doing, especially when they were in power?

It's called politics and I am getting more and more sick of it. I am very right wing. Harper, before he had power was also. Now he has some power he just wants more so will say and do anything he thinks will get him more. Just like Trudeau and Chretien did. Martin not so much, so he lost. I really wish the pots would quit calling the kettles black. And that goes from either side.

Yeah, don't stop at Trudeau or Chretien - how about that bastard Sir Wilfred "We will stay out of South Africa" Laurier? Or that sleezy Louis "We will stay out of Newfoundland" St. Laurent?

But why stop there? Let's talk about that goddamn John Stuart Mill!

:D

Posted

For all you partizan hacks accusing Harper et al of lying, how's your Liberal dudes doing, especially when they were in power?

It's called politics and I am getting more and more sick of it. I am very right wing. Harper, before he had power was also. Now he has some power he just wants more so will say and do anything he thinks will get him more. Just like Trudeau and Chretien did. Martin not so much, so he lost. I really wish the pots would quit calling the kettles black. And that goes from either side.

I am also very right wing because I actually believe in doing what is right and good...one must understand that left wing dupes serve extremist right wingers who don't care about what is right or wrong...Look at the debasement of our social fabric though leftism....the big dogs who play both sides of the spectrum just love it when they lower us to the level of dogs...we become prideless and compliant....do you really think that the powers that be believe in a man getting married to a man? Of course not - but it does get rid of future competion and maintains the status quo. The shrewd banker have posters of a couple of middle age gay guys sitting at the cottage and banking at the TD - do you really think the old executives at the TD actually believe in such crap? Of course not - they are experts in the art of pandering...There are probably no real right wingers around these days....just opportunists who feed off of the stupid.

Posted

I've always been surprised at how openly candidates of all stripes are able to rattle of outright falsehoods with impunity. It's hardly a new thing either.

Why is it when a candidate outright lies that there are no consequences for that? Politically or legally?

Posted

Didn't we just hear less than a week ago that by utilizing contract employees that the costs were 78% higher? It seems that this should be pretty easy to disprove.

No that's not what we heard. We were told that the amount of money spent on contract employees went up by 78%. As far as I know nothing was said about how much these employees cost compared to their public sector counterparts. Even if the up-front costs were a fair bit higher, they'd likely be cheaper in the long run because we all know the golden pension and the benefits public sector employees enjoy is what ends up costing us the most.

"A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous

Posted

It seems that this should be pretty easy to disprove.

It seems so, but try it. I just tried to find out whether there were easy metrics on the immigration backlog. My new steadfast rule is to Google the obvious terms, and if the data isn't on the first page, then assume it's not there. No government page of that importance should show up after the first page...

Posted

No that's not what we heard. We were told that the amount of money spent on contract employees went up by 78%. As far as I know nothing was said about how much these employees cost compared to their public sector counterparts. Even if the up-front costs were a fair bit higher, they'd likely be cheaper in the long run because we all know the golden pension and the benefits public sector employees enjoy is what ends up costing us the most.

Moonbox is correct. Expenditures on contract employees went up specifically to reduce the overall costs by using less unionized employees (and all the benefit expenses that come along with them).

I don't think we will ever see a Wisconson type of scenario here (where the public sector unions are essentially KTFO), but I do see the cost of the public sector especially with regards to unions being a bigger issue in the future. Taxpayers are really tired of paying for other people to get more than they can afford for the themselves, and union leaders just seem oblivious to it.

Posted

Could be interesting all over if Liberal partisans don't hold up their end also.

Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province

Posted

Yeah, don't stop at Trudeau or Chretien - how about that bastard Sir Wilfred "We will stay out of South Africa" Laurier? Or that sleezy Louis "We will stay out of Newfoundland" St. Laurent?

But why stop there? Let's talk about that goddamn John Stuart Mill!

:D

the John Stuart Mill who said...“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”

“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill

Posted

Yeah, don't stop at Trudeau or Chretien - how about that bastard Sir Wilfred "We will stay out of South Africa" Laurier? Or that sleezy Louis "We will stay out of Newfoundland" St. Laurent?

But why stop there? Let's talk about that goddamn John Stuart Mill!

:D

Is half of Mill's Caucus running as Ignatieff's cabinet in waiting?

It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy

Posted (edited)

It seems so, but try it. I just tried to find out whether there were easy metrics on the immigration backlog. My new steadfast rule is to Google the obvious terms, and if the data isn't on the first page, then assume it's not there. No government page of that importance should show up after the first page...

It's very hard to find accurate stuff on immigration issues and statistics due to the proliferation of immigration industry sites. Also, Immigration Canada's web site seems primarily aimed at immigrants and potential immigrants, and so is not exactly user friendly for other purposes.

Edited by Scotty

It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy

Posted

Is half of Mill's Caucus running as Ignatieff's cabinet in waiting?

Layton's,and potentially Duceppe's,certainly were in 2004...

Oh that's right...I forgot...

It was "cooperation" NOT a "seperatist/socialist/CA(Reform) coalition...

The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!

Posted
"We can make a billion-dollar investment in education every year without raising the taxes on ordinary Canadians because we're making better choices — not jets, not jails, not corporate-tax giveaways."

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Election+2011/4523927/story.html

He doesn't mean it about the Liberals not wanting to buy jets.

"We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers

Posted (edited)

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Election+2011/4523927/story.html

He doesn't mean it about the Liberals not wanting to buy jets.

Not sure what you mean here Capricorn. The way I think it should go is, and it should have been this way from the beginning, an open tender process with all of the costs in the open. There are a few different manufacturers of aircraft that have been excluded, who is to say we couldn't get a much better deal.

At some point, we do need to replace our aircraft.

Edited by Shakeyhands

"They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Posted

You and I understand new jets will be required. Ignatieff says "not jets". That's a negative. A statement along the line of "not un-tendered jets", which more accurately reflects the Liberal policy.

It may appear a minor point but Ignatieff is selling the Liberal message. Shouldn't it be clear and unequivocal?

"We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers

Posted

You and I understand new jets will be required. Ignatieff says "not jets". That's a negative. A statement along the line of "not un-tendered jets", which more accurately reflects the Liberal policy.

It may appear a minor point but Ignatieff is selling the Liberal message. Shouldn't it be clear and unequivocal?

My understanding is that now the campaign is on, he's about to get clear and unequivocal any second.

It has been said several times now, so all I need do is wait for the clarity. :)

As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand.

--Josh Billings

Posted

the John Stuart Mill who said...“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”

So liberal said conservatives are stupid.

How smart of him!

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