Shady Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Even if palestinians were completely peacefull Israeli policy wouldnt change. Complete nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Complete nonsense. No sorry it really isnt. Israel wants that land and the resources on it and no matter what the palestinians did they would take it. They currently get about 1/3rd of their fresh water from the west bank, without which they could not provide food for Israelis. They need to keep control of the region and a permanent occupation is the best way for them to do it. As I said... for a couple of years prior to the latest intifada there were almost NO attacks against Israelis. Israeli settlement activity increased. And in the west bank now you also have a historically low ammount of violence, and weve learned the PA has offered to make some fairly big concessions, and the response has been to ramp UP settlement building. Israel sees the west bank as a critical piece of national infrastructure... mostly because of the fresh water resources there. It not going to surrender 1/3 of its water to "nice" palestinians any more than it is to "mean" ones. There simply IS no winning strategy for the palestinians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No there are no winning strategies. And the PA has offered to compromise on lots of key issues including Jerusalem, right of return. And they are probably the most moderate palestinian authority in history. Israel has responded by ramping up settlement development even though they knew full well it would scuttle negotiations. The palestinians are quite simply fucked no matter WHAT they do. Even if palestinians were completely peacefull Israeli policy wouldnt change. In fact if it werent for palestinian resistance Israel probably would have formally annexed all that land by now. I see things completely differently than you. The PA has had 7 years to distance itself from Arafat's stench. Since its the first since his death, of course its the most moderate in history. Its just as incompetent or did you notice they seemed to have lost a big chunk of their land to the most extreme palestinian regime in history. Losers always get fucked. Its up to the palestinians to recognize this and start to plan how to be constructive. They have to stop thinking of themselves as victims and start thinking of themselves as responsible for their own future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No sorry it really isnt. Israel wants that land and the resources on it and no matter what the palestinians did they would take it. They currently get about 1/3rd of their fresh water from the west bank, without which they could not provide food for Israelis. They need to keep control of the region and a permanent occupation is the best way for them to do it. As I said... for a couple of years prior to the latest intifada there were almost NO attacks against Israelis. Israeli settlement activity increased. And in the west bank now you also have a historically low ammount of violence, and weve learned the PA has offered to make some fairly big concessions, and the response has been to ramp UP settlement building. Israel sees the west bank as a critical piece of national infrastructure... mostly because of the fresh water resources there. It not going to surrender 1/3 of its water to "nice" palestinians any more than it is to "mean" ones. There simply IS no winning strategy for the palestinians. How about alloowing the main settlement blocks to stay, removing all settlement from the jordan valley, getting other israeli land in compensation for the settlement blocks, sharing water resources throughout the region, just like hydro power at the moment. There are a lot of ways of compromise. You seem to think its a zero sum game for the palestinians, whereas I seem to think that if they got their heads outta their asses and became realistic about what they can achieve, they'd actually make a lot of progress. But NOTHING is going to happen while Hamas has gaza in its clutches. So until the palestinians can do something about the Iranian backed Islamists in the midst, they'll continue to get it up the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 How about alloowing the main settlement blocks to stay, removing all settlement from the jordan valley, getting other israeli land in compensation for the settlement blocks, sharing water resources throughout the region, just like hydro power at the moment. There are a lot of ways of compromise. You seem to think its a zero sum game for the palestinians, whereas I seem to think that if they got their heads outta their asses and became realistic about what they can achieve, they'd actually make a lot of progress. But NOTHING is going to happen while Hamas has gaza in its clutches. So until the palestinians can do something about the Iranian backed Islamists in the midst, they'll continue to get it up the ass. Isreal doesnt want a water sharing agreement they want control. They use about 80% of the water resources in the west bank and enforce strict quotas on the palestinians. Whats more... Israel drew up the plans go aquire all this water before the war even started. Theres no reason at all for Israel turn over control... regardless of what the palestinians do. And history shows that during times of relative peace settlement building INCREASES. Those two gangs of retards will still be squabbling over that god forsaken dirt farm when you and I are long dead and gone. I guarantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Palestine doesn't want peace or any agreement, all they want is dead jews, they want Israel gone, pushed into the sea. Israel would be stupid to give up any control to Hamas... if they did - say by by Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 The problem with yer god forsaken dirt farm West Bank is that it contains the Tomb of Abraham, Bethlehem, Jericho, Hebron and dozens of other religious sites that are all originally important to the Jewish faith...only becoming important to Christians and Muslims because of the importance to the former. That's what drives those crazy-ass Orthodox Jewish settlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Isreal doesnt want a water sharing agreement they want control. They use about 80% of the water resources in the west bank and enforce strict quotas on the palestinians. Whats more... Israel drew up the plans go aquire all this water before the war even started. Theres no reason at all for Israel turn over control... regardless of what the palestinians do. And history shows that during times of relative peace settlement building INCREASES. Those two gangs of retards will still be squabbling over that god forsaken dirt farm when you and I are long dead and gone. I guarantee it. do you have a source for your claim about water plans before war? You see, you think that Israel won't compromise to achieve peace. I beleive that Israel is prepared to sacrifice a considerable amount to achieve peace, but only with a reliable and trusted partner, and frankly that doesn't come close to describing the palestinians at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Palestine doesn't want peace or any agreement, all they want is dead jews, they want Israel gone, pushed into the sea. Israel would be stupid to give up any control to Hamas... if they did - say by by Israel. No, I'm afraid you are wrong wrt palestinian objectives. http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2010/p35ejoint.html I do agree that there isn't a snowball's chance of Israel giving anything to Hamas except a laser guided missile up the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 do you have a source for your claim about water plans before war? You see, you think that Israel won't compromise to achieve peace. I beleive that Israel is prepared to sacrifice a considerable amount to achieve peace, but only with a reliable and trusted partner, and frankly that doesn't come close to describing the palestinians at the moment. This is precisely what Netanyahu talked about last week during his interview on CNN.Again,he personally feels that there is a schism within the Palestinian populous that on one side wants to make a deal,and on the other side,wants to bully and intimidate anyone who wants peace with Israel into submission.. How is he supposed to negotiate with Hamas,an Islamofascist organization hellbent on the destruction of Israel??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 The problem with yer god forsaken dirt farm West Bank is that it contains the Tomb of Abraham, Bethlehem, Jericho, Hebron and dozens of other religious sites that are all originally important to the Jewish faith...only becoming important to Christians and Muslims because of the importance to the former. That's what drives those crazy-ass Orthodox Jewish settlers. ain't that the truth. Btw, the majority of settlers are secular, but there is more than enough loonie toons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 ain't that the truth. Btw, the majority of settlers are secular, but there is more than enough loonie toons. Erm...See Bob's recent posts on the subject of "vermin"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) The only difference in these attacks is that one is state policy, and the other is done by extremists, who often lack education and reasoning ability. Edited March 25, 2011 by no1ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 It sucks when one loses the war one started. If another war is waged against Israel and Israel gets taken out, will you still hold this view? It's hypothetical yes, but an interesting question for those who support Israel without question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 If another war is waged against Israel and Israel gets taken out, will you still hold this view? It's hypothetical yes, but an interesting question for those who support Israel without question. Do you support Israel without question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Well, they are already getting fucked royally and have been since 1948. If not by the Israelis, then by their arab league brethren or their own leadership. They've been getting f'ed royally since the early 1900's. Now they keep f'ing themselves with stupid behaviour, though i can understands their rage. Israeli withdraws from Gaza, then the Palestinians start launching rockets from the same place Israel just let you have. Given that, why the heck would Israel give them the West Bank when the Palestinians show that the violence from the West Bank likely wouldn't stop even if they gave in to some of their demands? There are so many babies & morons on both sides of the conflict its ridiculous. Thank God for the moderates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) They've been getting f'ed royally since the early 1900's. Now they keep f'ing themselves with stupid behaviour, though i can understands their rage. Israeli withdraws from Gaza, then the Palestinians start launching rockets from the same place Israel just let you have. Given that, why the heck would Israel give them the West Bank when the Palestinians show that the violence from the West Bank likely wouldn't stop even if they gave in to some of their demands? There are so many babies & morons on both sides of the conflict its ridiculous. Thank God for the moderates. Is there anyone in the region that Isreal gets along with? I liked Yitzhak Rabin, I felt that this was a man that was able to see wisdom through age. Did anyone expect anything diffrent with Netanyahu? (and towards my first point, I don't mean a west money whore like Mubarek, who gets to keep billions and the west inores his corruption and he pays himself with his peoples money, becasue no one has a big enough stick to bounce him) Edited March 25, 2011 by no1ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Do you support Israel without question? No. I don't support them at all. But thanks for not answering my question. Edited March 25, 2011 by GostHacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 No. I don't support them at all. But thanks for not answering my question. You seem alright with painting me in absolutes. My position is that of the history books. That some of that history is inconvenient to your world view isn't my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 You seem alright with painting me in absolutes. My position is that of the history books. That some of that history is inconvenient to your world view isn't my problem. Well, you and others here like to paint others in absolutes, so I was just posing a hypothetical question you have still failed to answer. In the end, I am ok with that, knowing full well I would not get an answer. I know my view is not popular, but that is the view I hold and I won't make any apologies about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Is there anyone in the region that Isreal gets along with? I liked Yitzhak Rabin, I felt that this was a man that was able to see wisdom through age. Did anyone expect anything diffrent with Netanyahu? (and towards my first point, I don't mean a west money whore like Mubarek, who gets to keep billions and the west inores his corruption and he pays himself with his peoples money, becasue no one has a big enough stick to bounce him) Israel gets along just fine with Jordan, Turkey, and Egypt. and you're a little behind the times on Hosni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonsa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Erm...See Bob's recent posts on the subject of "vermin"... sorry, ya lost me. vermin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1ninja Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Israel gets along just fine with Jordan, Turkey, and Egypt. and you're a little behind the times on Hosni. Or do they get along fine with their Hosni's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 If another war is waged against Israel and Israel gets taken out, will you still hold this view? It's hypothetical yes, but an interesting question for those who support Israel without question. DoP said: It sucks when one loses the war one started. "War waged against Israel" and "the war one started" are two different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 DoP said: It sucks when one loses the war one started. "War waged against Israel" and "the war one started" are two different things. Alright, let me rephrase. If a war is waged against Israel and Israel looses, will Isreal's supporters call foul, or say, that the spoils go to the victor(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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