The end of the empire of Japan

[ToadBrother]

To much to clean up - to much to rebuild...suffering a recession along with large international debt...Japan is now offically back in the stone age..No one can imagine the extent of the material damage - not to mention environmental damage due to human junk washed back into the sea after the wave returns from whence it came...Empires rise and fall...Yesterday Japan fell...Nature builds you up and nature takes you down - the lord gives and the lord takes it away...Looks like the hand of God via mother nature has brought Japan to it's knees - a culture were status - pride and money - along with a sucide rate that is horrific amoungst slightly failed students does not deserve to exist...and now it is gone.

Oh good grief. It's bad, but Japan is among the top five richest nations on the planet. It will recover, as it has before.

[ToadBrother]

Talking about the Three Mile Island accident, "that estimates of radiological exposure for the 2 million people in the area amounted to about one-sixth of what they might have received from a chest X-ray." The Japanese plants are no way as bad as the Three Mile Island accident, which didn't even release large amounts of radiation from the plant.

Unfortunately some anti-nuclear activists have tried to spin quite a story around this, but all in all, the reactors were built well, and the containment systems are still in place. These aren't some shoddy late-Soviet nuclear reactors that, even if they meltdown, will barf vast clouds of radiation everywhere. They were built to contain even a critical core failure.

Unfortunately the media has gone a little nuts over this. The explosions are because of hydrogen buildup due to the use of seawater. The explosions are just taking out the external concrete and steel shell. Looks bad, to be sure, but as long as the reactors themselves are contained, the risk is limited.

[Wilber]

and let's be clear on the size it's the fifth largest historical (recorded) quake, there is physical evidence far bigger quakes without historical record...

The 1964 Alaska quake was a 9.2 but aside from the Anchorage area did little damage to human property. About 130 killed and the tsunami destroyed over 50 homes in Port Alberni and damaged over 300 more.

[Wilber]

Oh good grief. It's bad, but Japan is among the top five richest nations on the planet. It will recover, as it has before.

At the end of WW2 every city in Japan larger than Spokane Washington had been flattened. Less than 50 years later they were the worlds second biggest economy. You bet they will.

[GostHacked]

Video of the second containment structure, going up. .... Seemed bigger than the first one.

First one. (reactor 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfR_wybvw0

Second one. (reactor 3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgZwx5sU1Wo

Hopefully they can get the other two cooled down enough, I would guess the shockwaves of two explosions would weaken the other structures a little.

And the aftershocks are still going, but getting less frequent. Still 2-4 every hour would be unsettling.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php

Edited March 14, 2011 by GostHacked

[dre]

Unfortunately some anti-nuclear activists have tried to spin quite a story around this, but all in all, the reactors were built well, and the containment systems are still in place. These aren't some shoddy late-Soviet nuclear reactors that, even if they meltdown, will barf vast clouds of radiation everywhere. They were built to contain even a critical core failure.

Unfortunately the media has gone a little nuts over this. The explosions are because of hydrogen buildup due to the use of seawater. The explosions are just taking out the external concrete and steel shell. Looks bad, to be sure, but as long as the reactors themselves are contained, the risk is limited.

I dont think you can blame nuclear activists LOL.

I mean... big explosions at a nuclear facility are obviously gonna make anyone nervous. And the Japanese government themselves seems concerned and has been putting out constant press about it.

In any case... if nothing else happens, and theres no major release of rads, then I think it will be safe to say the safety measures worked pretty well, all things considered. From a cost standpoint though its a major disaster. I doubt these reactors will ever run again, and the costs associated with cleaning up and repurposing these sites will be astronomical. Japan doesnt have much choice though besides nuclear.

[kimmy]

The real cause of the earthquake has been unearthed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

Yes, the kind of morons and imbeciles who've made have Alex Jones a rich man have figured it all out: the US government's giant earthquake gun in the sky was set in motion to shut down Japan's industry. Why? To reduce the demand for oil! Oil prices have dropped below $100 a barrel again, thanks to the giant space cannon known as HAARP. Believe it!

3/11/11 was an inside job!!!

-k

Edited March 14, 2011 by kimmy

[dre]

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/145_40.php

Theres a good site that shows how much activity theres been there. Literally dozens of 6+ and 7+ quakes.

[GostHacked]

The real cause of the earthquake has been unearthed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

Yes, the kind of morons and imbeciles who've made have Alex Jones a rich man have figured it all out: the US government's giant earthquake gun in the sky was set in motion to shut down Japan's industry. Why? To reduce the demand for oil! Oil prices have dropped below $100 a barrel again, thanks to the giant space cannon known as HAARP. Believe it!

3/11/11 was an inside job!!!

-k

The HAARP bit is all over the PP forums. HAARP has some interesting capabilities, but it's not the cause of this quake. But it does have the ability to heat part of the ionosphere, and this technology can be used as a deep sea communications device and to send radio waves into the earth and the signals they get back represent different things. This tech can be used to find oil and gas reserves underground without needing to dig.

[GostHacked]

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/145_40.php

Theres a good site that shows how much activity theres been there. Literally dozens of 6+ and 7+ quakes.

Search and download Earthquake 3D. Been using it all weekend. Links to the USGS site as well.

http://earthquake-3d.en.softonic.com/

[bush_cheney2004]

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/145_40.php

Theres a good site that shows how much activity theres been there. Literally dozens of 6+ and 7+ quakes.

Yes..that's an American site...just like the American HAARP "earthquake gun". We use the "gun" to test our sensor arrays around the world.

[wyly]

As the before and after pictures clearly show your statement that "much of the complex was washed away by the Tsunami" is not true. A few buildings close to the water were damaged. But the complex was left standing and undamaged and as shown by reports that it continued operating until the battery power died. But I did make it personal by calling you a liar, my bad. You aren't are a liar or have ill intentions you're just misinformed.

a few buildings were damaged ya if damaged means no longer there....the back up diesel generating station was knocked out by the tsunami...you're way past ill informed...

[wyly]

The 1964 Alaska quake was a 9.2 but aside from the Anchorage area did little damage to human property. About 130 killed and the tsunami destroyed over 50 homes in Port Alberni and damaged over 300 more.

9.2-9.3 about the size of the quake that is projected for the Vancouver area...

[dre]

Yes..that's an American site...just like the American HAARP "earthquake gun". We use the "gun" to test our sensor arrays around the world.

Yes..that's an American site...

[xul]

Seems to me the biggest problem here was the reactor being located in a tsunami zone, not an earthquake zone.

I agree with you.

According to what I read from Chinese media, when the earthquake happened, there were 11 reactors scrammed for security. After the reactors were scrammed, they needed power supply from outside power grid to power the cooling system to bring out the residual heat from the core of the reactor. Since the outside power grid had lost because of the earthquake, the Japanese turned on the backup diesel generators instead.

At this point, it seemed like everything was OK. But about an hour later, tsunami stroke.Sea water engulfed some backup diesel generators and the backup generators were also lost. That was the moment the real disasters began.

Losing power, the cooling system could not cool the reactor core down, and the residual heat began to build up. Japanese government managed to send some portable generators to the reactors, but it seemed like their capacities were not enough. The cores of the reactors were overheated and at the high temperature the chemical reaction between zirconium hull which was used to contain the feul of the reactor and the water which was used to cool down the core yielded hydrogen gas. When the hydrogen gas along with vapor were released from the safety valve which was used to protect the containment vessel of the reactor, the hydrogen mixed with oxygen outside and somehow exploded.

I guess the designers of the power plant just didn't consider the tsunami scenario, or they would built some watertight door to protect the backup the diesel generators.

Edited March 14, 2011 by xul

[Oleg Bach]

Not only will Japan "recover", but it will grow stronger as the best prepared nation on the planet for earthquakes and tsunamis. Remember, Nagasaki and Hiroshima recovered nicely too.

Yah sure....Nagasaki and Hiroshima....was minor compared to this. After WW2 America sent 50 million bucks a day to Japan...it was Christian guilt money...the nuking of Japan was not neccesary but the curious wanted to see the bomb in actual action..having said that...There is no such thing as earth quake proof...This was a powerful quake..In the future there will be more...un-measurable in intensity...You are dealing with nature my friend - with the acts of GOD himself..once God (nature)stomp on you...like an ant hill...it might recover...but they will still be ants...and it seems you admire the insect collective.

[jbg]

attaboy TimG, yes... that website you're choosing to draw from is one of my personal keepers - I trust you'll pay particular attention to this page that presumes to deal with, as stated, recycled denialism:

Is "recycled denialism" an environmentally more friendly type of denialism than "raw denialism"?

[waldo]

Is "recycled denialism" an environmentally more friendly type of denialism than "raw denialism"?

whoa! Full stop! I've never thought of it in that light... I truly didn't realize that deniers who continually recycle their same scientifically debunked/refuted/rebuked talking points... were just extolling on a most varied form of "environmental friendliness" - go figure! By the by, if it wasn't in your face obvious, I jumped at the opportunity to point to that page when a fervent MLW climate change denier selectively drew from the same website.

[GostHacked]

They expect a 3rd housing tower to blow. Fuel rods exposed, more and more likely the reactors will go into a partial meltdown. Partial is about the best we could hope for at the moment considering the severity of the situation.

Keep your eyes on it. And hopefully it's limited to just this one reactor site. No reports from what I see about the other two reactor sites that were damaged. Possibly those shut down safely. Time will tell.

[ToadBrother]

At the end of WW2 every city in Japan larger than Spokane Washington had been flattened. Less than 50 years later they were the worlds second biggest economy. You bet they will.

During the Meiji period, Japan went from a feudal backwater (in large part self-imposed, a few centuries earlier Japan had been the largest firearm manufacturer in the world) to a major power in a few short decades. I can't think of another country that industrialized and modernized itself that quickly. It has to be one of the great technical and social leap forwards in all of history.

[ToadBrother]

They expect a 3rd housing tower to blow. Fuel rods exposed, more and more likely the reactors will go into a partial meltdown. Partial is about the best we could hope for at the moment considering the severity of the situation.

Keep your eyes on it. And hopefully it's limited to just this one reactor site. No reports from what I see about the other two reactor sites that were damaged. Possibly those shut down safely. Time will tell.

Providing the containment vessels are in place, this is looking more like a Three Mile Island. It will not become a Chernobyl.

[GostHacked]

Providing the containment vessels are in place, this is looking more like a Three Mile Island. It will not become a Chernobyl.

That is what I hope. Are the containment vessels compromised in any way with the two blasts that occurred? I would think/hope they can sustain a blast like that.

[ToadBrother]

That is what I hope. Are the containment vessels compromised in any way with the two blasts that occurred? I would think/hope they can sustain a blast like that.

The explosions are due to a buildup of hydrogen gas because they're pumping in seawater, seeing as they have no other ready source of coolant. The blasts, from what I can tell, were expected, and while they heavily damaged the outside structures, they in no way damaged the containment vessels.

The media, and in particular CNN, have blown this way out of proportion. As much as anyone could be prepared for a monster quake (depending on the final determination either the fifth or seventh largest in recorded history), the Japanese were prepared. The reactors were scrammed when the quake hit, thus eliminating the possibility of any Chernobyl-like explosion. Beyond that, these reactors are nothing like the Chernobyl reactors in design. In essence, they are designed for just such a catastrophe. At least some of the damage didn't even come from the quake itself, but from the tsunami flooding the pump control rooms.

I'm not saying there isn't any danger, but these reactors were designed for a meltdown and in such a situation they will basically become a radioactive tomb.

The media has latched on to the reactors because the phrase "nuclear disaster" sell a helluva lot more papers than just "earth quake and tsunami catastrophe", which has me baffled, because I suspect we won't even get one fatality from the busted reactors, and yet ten thousand and people, and possibly many more, were killed in the quake and the tsunami. But "nuclear" has always been a sexier word.

[bud]

The US said it had moved one of its aircraft carriers from the area after detecting low-level radiation 160km (100 miles) offshore.

BBC

[TimG]

That is what I hope. Are the containment vessels compromised in any way with the two blasts that occurred? I would think/hope they can sustain a blast like that.

The containment vessels are 1 meter thick steel. The blasts were so weak they left the building superstructure in place. There is zero change that these explosions damaged the vessels themselves.