The end of the empire of Japan

[GostHacked]

More stunning pics..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/gallery.htm

[bush_cheney2004]

But you need to design the battery backup system to last long enough to get the main power back on. In this case, 8 hours was not enough so you could consider it a design failure for the battery backup system. That said, we are probably spliting hairs on this point.

Fair enough...but I have seen main coolant pumps in action and their motors do not just "sip" current. Frankly, I'm surprised the battery bakups lasted for 8 hours under such adverse conditions.

[eyeball]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/japan-earthquake-live-blog-death-toll-rises-amid-widespread-destruction/

Crap.

No kidding.

North Pacific satelite images

Click all images (just below the image) then play (just above). Once they all load speed it up to get a sense of what the direction the wind is blowing not to mention how short a time it takes to get here.

[eyeball]

Would it even be possible to get the generators hooked up and integrated in time to prevent a catastrophe? That's a huge job. Not sure if you can just get them on a moments notice, because you'd need some very powerful generators, and the fuel to run them. I also think it would be a problem of getting them in the right spot to be effective. Must be debris everywhere.

The size of these generators needed would be the size of semi-trucks, or shipping containers.

For what it's worth...we've been crawling around the engine room the last 5 days taking out and installing a diesel engine. We've got good conditions, lots of equipment and tools and hands but it takes time, there are some things you just can't do any faster than it takes no matter how much pressure you're under.

We kept working right through the tsunami warning and watched the tide coming and going three times in about as many hours. This was about my sixth tsunami warning/advisory in the last 36 or so years and I was on or near the water for all but one and this was the first time I've ever actually seen any effects. It was a little distracting to say the least.

So there we were, three of us down a hot little engine room today, dealing with a hard to reach coolant leak of all things (a seal that didn't set right). Of course we're conjuring up the image of a bunch of guys down in a hot little reactor in Japan somewhere...

I wonder how many of those poor bastards will be getting a glow on after work with the crew tonight...(shaddup)

[eyeball]

It appears that way but that does not make a lot of sense since elevation rises pretty quickly as you move away for the coast and there should have been no need to build a plant in a tsunami zone. I don't know if a 10m tsunami was beyond what anyone had previously anticipated. I do know that they have signs posted everywhere near a coastline that was in an expected tsunami zone. These are one of the details that the inquiry will have to sort out.

Maybe they built near the coastline because it would give them access to seawater which is currently being used to cool the reactors.

That probably means the water table below the reactor is, you know, right there.

[GostHacked]

CNN is saying a meltdown may have occurred.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrdIfi1grWM&feature=related

May have? Well what the f was that? 10 KM radius might not be enough anymore.

Edited March 13, 2011 by GostHacked

[Wilber]

It appears that way but that does not make a lot of sense since elevation rises pretty quickly as you move away for the coast and there should have been no need to build a plant in a tsunami zone. I don't know if a 10m tsunami was beyond what anyone had previously anticipated. I do know that they have signs posted everywhere near a coastline that was in an expected tsunami zone. These are one of the details that the inquiry will have to sort out.

Maybe they built near the coastline because it would give them access to seawater which is currently being used to cool the reactors.

Because of the high velocity and huge mass of water of a tsunami, they can climb hills. A 10M wave might easily reach 30M ASL when it hits land. Reactors do need a source of water for cooling but in retrospect, low level coastlines in earthquake zones might not be appropriate locations. 20/20 hindsight of course.

[Guest American Woman]

As for the body count. Thousands is a little high, maybe around one thousand is a little closer. Sure it looks horrible on TV but if you watch closely they keep showing the same few towns that were totally wiped out close to the epicentre. These towns had a good 20min warning before the tsunami struck and looks like they were evacuated. The dead are going to be elderly people who couldn't move, of which there will be a lot, and those who ignored the warning sirens.

It sounds as if the death toll likely will be in the thousands. It's not just the initial hit, but the aftermath. Being such a small country with such a large population, it has to be even more of a problem. I can't imagine the extent of such a disaster; of being in the middle of it. My heart goes out to the country. It's devastating.

The death toll in Japan's earthquake and tsunami will likely exceed 10,000 in one state alone, an official said Sunday, as millions of survivors were left without drinking water, electricity and proper food along the pulverized northeastern coast.

"This is Japan's most severe crisis since the war ended 65 years ago," Prime Minister Naoto Kan told reporters, adding that Japan's future would be decided by the response to this crisis.

Japan quake-tsunami death toll likely over 10,000

[GostHacked]

The small quakes are still going on, but they seem to be dropping in frequency, is that a bad or good thing?

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php

[Post To The Left]

The death toll in Japan's earthquake and tsunami will likely exceed 10,000 in one state alone, an official said Sunday, as millions of survivors were left without drinking water, electricity and proper food along the pulverized northeastern coast.

"This is Japan's most severe crisis since the war ended 65 years ago," Prime Minister Naoto Kan told reporters, adding that Japan's future would be decided by the response to this crisis.

Millions of people are "without drinking water, electricity and proper food" because the powers out. That quote makes it sound like millions of Japanese are without homes. Except those small towns along the coast that were wiped out the Japanese people are fine, they just can't play PS3. If half of Canada can survive without power, in the middle of one of the worst ice storms ever, the Japanese people will get along fine. The death toll will stay around 1000 people. There are so many missing right now because there is no power, no phones, no way to get in touch with family and friends.

[Post To The Left]

The small quakes are still going on, but they seem to be dropping in frequency, is that a bad or good thing?

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php

Japan is one of the most active areas, seismically, in the world. Before this event earthquakes happened everyday. Small quakes are going on because that is normal in Japan.

[GostHacked]

Millions of people are "without drinking water, electricity and proper food" because the powers out. That quote makes it sound like millions of Japanese are without homes. Except those small towns along the coast that were wiped out the Japanese people are fine, they just can't play PS3. If half of Canada can survive without power, in the middle of one of the worst ice storms ever, the Japanese people will get along fine. The death toll will stay around 1000 people. There are so many missing right now because there is no power, no phones, no way to get in touch with family and friends.

I guess you have not been paying attention to the same catastrophe as the rest of the real world. Half the population of one coastal town is missing, estimated that alone at 10,000.

This is no ice storm, this is a massive quake and a tsunami, and a nuke plant meltdown.

[GostHacked]

Japan is one of the most active areas, seismically, in the world. Before this event earthquakes happened everyday. Small quakes are going on because that is normal in Japan.

Not this frequent. Check the USGS historical data. Most of the Aftershocks have been averaging about 4.5. And there have been over a hundred since the 8.9, occurring on average every 10 minutes. You can say that's normal for the area, but with the recent 7.1 leading to the 8.9, this is not normal.

http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/qed/

Either you are ignorant or simply trolling.

[Post To The Left]

I guess you have not been paying attention to the same catastrophe as the rest of the real world. Half the population of one coastal town is missing, estimated that alone at 10,000.

This is no ice storm, this is a massive quake and a tsunami, and a nuke plant meltdown.

As I'm living in Japan right now, I'm paying pretty close attention. The media loves to latch onto crazy figures that are off the cuff like the 10,000 number. The coast is devastated but these are small rural towns that train for this type of shit ALL THE TIME. It's the elderly that will be hit everyone else would have had at least 10min to get to higher ground. The Sichuan earthquake got high numbers because corrupt Chinese officials built shitty schools. The 2004 quake saw 250,000 killed because it was an area that tsunamis don't usually happen. Neither of these apply to Japan as most buildings survived, accept for those affected by the tsunami, for the later the Japanese are prepared for this and were warned which means, hopefully, they got out of the way. Judging by the video footage they're showing on TV there appear to be large crowds on higher ground watching the damage.

There is no nuclear meltdown.

[GostHacked]

As I'm living in Japan right now, I'm paying pretty close attention. The media loves to latch onto crazy figures that are off the cuff like the 10,000 number. The coast is devastated but these are small rural towns that train for this type of shit ALL THE TIME. It's the elderly that will be hit everyone else would have had at least 10min to get to higher ground. The Sichuan earthquake got high numbers because corrupt Chinese officials built shitty schools. The 2004 quake saw 250,000 killed because it was an area that tsunamis don't usually happen. Neither of these apply to Japan as most buildings survived, accept for those affected by the tsunami, for the later the Japanese are prepared for this and were warned which means, hopefully, they got out of the way. Judging by the video footage they're showing on TV there appear to be large crowds on higher ground watching the damage.

There is no nuclear meltdown.

Forgive me if I don't believe you.

[eyeball]

There is no nuclear meltdown.

The evasiveness of Japan's government and nuclear industry officials in general is causing a credibility meltdown.

[Guest American Woman]

Forgive me if I don't believe you.

Ditto. But even if he were, so what? I live in the U.S., but I had no more firsthand knowledge of what was going on in New Orleans after Katrina than someone living in Japan. No matter how "close attention [someone living in Japan is] paying," unless they are running all over Japan and speaking to everyone in charge, they don't have any more knowledge of the total situation than the media does.

Edited March 13, 2011 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

Ditto. But even if he were, so what? I live in the U.S., but I had no more firsthand knowledge of what was going on in New Orleans after Katrina than someone living in Japan. No matter how "close attention [someone living in Japan is] paying," unless they are running all over Japan and speaking to everyone in charge, they don't have any more knowledge of the total situation than the media does.

True we won't know the real extent of the damage for some time. But some of the videos online show such massive damage, it's hard to believe the death toll would be so low. Sure I hope that is the case (low casualties), but reality will kick in soon enough.

Give it a couple weeks before they can surmise the extent of the damage. Expect years of clean up.

Edited March 13, 2011 by GostHacked

[TimG]

The evasiveness of Japan's government and nuclear industry officials in general is causing a credibility meltdown.

That is only because anti-nuclear ghouls are unhappy that that a major disaster has not happened so they can use it to justify their hatred of a nuclear power.

As of this point, no disaster has occurred. There have been only been minor releases of radiation. The explosion itself was a consequence of one of the fail safes. Officials have said that a partial melt down "may" have occurred because they can't exclude that possibility. That does not mean it will happen.

[Guest American Woman]

True we won't know the real extent of the damage for some time. But some of the videos online show such massive damage, it's hard to believe the death toll would be so low. Sure I hope that is the case (low casualties), but reality will kick in soon enough.

I agree, but I'm saying that even someone living in Japan wouldn't know more than the media in most instances. I tend to believe the media to an extent. Taking into account all the missing, I think your initial feeling about the number of casualties is unfortunately going to prove correct.

Give it a couple weeks before they can surmise the extent of the damage. Expect years of clean up.

I can't imagine having to deal with the after effects; it's going to be daunting and likely will take a long time to get back to the way things were. It's difficult to imagine one's own nation facing such a tragedy.

Edited March 13, 2011 by American Woman

[TimG]

I agree, but I'm saying that even someone living in Japan wouldn't know more than the media. I tend to believe the media to an extent. Taking into account all the missing, I think your initial feeling about the number of casualties is unfortunately going to prove correct.

It would say someone living in Japan watching Japanese media is going to be more informed than someone watching sound bites on CNN.

That said, there are 10,000+ people missing and until they are accounted for they are possible causalties.

Edited March 13, 2011 by TimG

[Guest American Woman]

It would say someone living in Japan watching Japanese media is going to be more informed than someone watching sound bites on CNN.

That said, there are 10,000+ people missing and until they are accounted for they are possible causalties.

I wasn't referring to people whose sole source of world events is sound bites from CNN since the internet provides us with a variety of sources, but CNN does have corespondents in Japan, so I'm not sure why they would be less informed than someone living in Japan.

Edited March 13, 2011 by American Woman

[TimG]

I wasn't referring to people whose sole source of world events is sound bites from CNN since the internet provides us with a variety of sources, but CNN does have corespondents in Japan, so I'm not sure why they would be less informed than someone living in Japan.

The coverage in the Japanese language media is many times more complete than anything offered by global media corps.

[Guest American Woman]

The coverage in the Japanese language media is many times more complete than anything offered by global media corps.

So you believe "the coverage in the Japanese language media" is saying something completely different from what CNN correspondents in Japan are hearing and reporting? You yourself said that 10,000+ people are missing in one state alone, so it seems to me you're just backing up CNN's claim rather than what Post to the Left has said.

While a person within a nation is provided with more comprehensive news coverage than the rest of the world, when it comes to reporting something as basic as the number of people missing and feared dead, I doubt if the rest of the world has it totally wrong.

[TimG]

You yourself said that 10,000+ people are missing in one state alone, so it seems to me you're just backing up CNN's claim rather than what Post to the Left has said.

This is what is reported on Japanese language media too. But Post to the Left he also said about that tsunamis warnings is true. Many people likely made it to safety because of these warnings. It is possible that many of these people made it out, however, as each day goes by this possibility drops significantly.