Opposition want to make election about Harper.

[Mr.Canada]

They felt a lot safer than Torontonians on their own street. Rubber bullets used for the fist time in the history of Toronto. How many more heads have to be bashed so that they feel safe?

How many more businesses need to have their windows smashed?

I agree with you fully. The worst thing they can steal from you is your rights. They will always figure out how to get your money. I wouldn't charactarize a whole party by one thief, there is Brian Mulroney.

The Liberals stole $500 million from you.

Honest to goodness conversation. I asked what was the state of the legal system in Canada and got a candid response from a lawyer that is more conservative than anyone I usually talk to. It wasn't about the politics for this guy, it was about the law. He was worried that our country was loosing its way, on behest of our naighbours to the south. He must be looney, after all we know that America stands for freedom.

Your spelling is atrocious. If PM Harper has broken the law have your lawyer go after him in court.

[Saipan]

They felt a lot safer than Torontonians on their own street. Rubber bullets used for the fist time in the history of Toronto.

True, Toronto is used to live bullets. 'Specially around public housings with the Caribbean trash.

How many more heads have to be bashed so that they feel safe?

Depends how many smashed shopping windows there are.

The worst thing they can steal from you is your rights.

That's why we got rid of Liberals.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Saipan

[no1ninja]

How many more businesses need to have their windows smashed?

Forgive me if I am worried about the heads of innocent Torontonians, who had nothing to do with smashing those windows. Last I heard we did not beat up entire groups because one person violated the law.

The Liberals stole $500 million from you.

The conservatives stole a lot more. These cozy relationships with corporate entities that are not feeling the recession, but are getting huge tax breaks just the same are taking more funds from you than a half a bill.

Your spelling is atrocious. If PM Harper has broken the law have your lawyer go after him in court.

Sorry, english is not my native language, but that is still not a good enough excuse for not C&P into word. He has not broken the law, I will go after him with my vote. I suggest you do the same.

[no1ninja]

Depends how many smashed shopping windows there are.

Nothing like fixing those windows by smashing the first persons head you see in the vicinity.

Edited March 11, 2011 by no1ninja

[wyly]

This is another pathetic attempt to demonize PM Harper in advance of the upcoming election. The Liberals cannot run on their record because they don't have one. The last legacy of the Liberals is ADScam and the voters haven't forgotten or forgiven the Liberals for that one yet. Plus the voters dislike Ignatieff. The sooner this election is over the better.

coming from someone who idolizes Francisco Franco it doesn't come as a surprise that you feel the disregard the Harper regime has for our democratic system is okay...the respect for our democratic system trumps all other issues...

[Moonbox]

They felt a lot safer than Torontonians on their own street. Rubber bullets used for the fist time in the history of Toronto. How many more heads have to be bashed so that they feel safe?

Torontonians on their own streets felt safe. The fools who came out to protest anything and nothing maybe felt less so, but even they were largely left alone and nobody really got hurt.

I agree with you fully. The worst thing they can steal from you is your rights. They will always figure out how to get your money. I wouldn't charactarize a whole party by one thief, there is the example of Brian Mulroney.

Mulroney was definetly a crook. As far as Adscam went, however, there more than a few people involved.

As to our rights being stolen, there was more damage done to personal property and to innocent bystanders than there was to protesters as a result of police actions. Get over it.

Honest to goodness conversation. I asked what was the state of the legal system in Canada and got a candid response from a lawyer that is more conservative than anyone I usually talk to. It wasn't about the politics for this guy, it was about the law. He was worried that our country was loosing its way, on behest of our naighbours to the south. He must be looney, after all we know that America stands for freedom.

My family is full of laywers and the 'honest to goodness' conversation I have with them is that the North American legal system has become a travesty of political correctness and pussy-footing.

[g_bambino]

Torontonians on their own streets felt safe. The fools who came out to protest anything and nothing maybe felt less so, but even they were largely left alone and nobody really got hurt.

Heresy!

[no1ninja]

Torontonians on their own streets felt safe. The fools who came out to protest anything and nothing maybe felt less so, but even they were largely left alone and nobody really got hurt.

You mean the "fools" that decided to go OUT of their house rather than stay indoors like good little ants? From the looks of it, it didn't matter what you were outside for, whether it was protesting, or going to your pharmacy to fill your prescription. If you were in the area, tough luck. You really need to do more digging into what actually happened out there. You have a right to protest peacefully. 99.9% did just that.

It's funny that the police were within 5 feet of the peaceful protesters, in any direction you would look, but somehow... were ordered away from rowdy ones.

...but hey, its not like there are tactics to these things.

Mulroney was definetly a crook. As far as Adscam went, however, there more than a few people involved.

As to our rights being stolen, there was more damage done to personal property and to innocent bystanders than there was to protesters as a result of police actions. Get over it.

WRONG. Anytime you have citizens herded into cages like a concentration camp, without due process and under the guise of a 'fake martial law' than a lot more has been done to your liberties, than the monetary damage to the windows.

This is unforgivable and the KEY REASON why HARPER even if he was half angelic should be voted out.

My family is full of laywers and the 'honest to goodness' conversation I have with them is that the North American legal system has become a travesty of political correctness and pussy-footing.

Your charter of rights is 'pussy-footing'? There are some interesting regimes that your family can try to move to, Russia for instance has none of this political correctness BS.

Edited March 11, 2011 by no1ninja

[g_bambino]

Anytime you have citizens herded into cages like a concetration camp, without due process and under the guise of a 'fake martial law' than a lot more has beend done to your liberties, than the monetary damge to the windows.

See, Moonbox? Don't question the dogma.

[Moonbox]

Anytime you have citizens herded into cages like a concentration camp, without due process and under the guise of a 'fake martial law' than a lot more has been done to your liberties, than the monetary damage to the windows.

Concentration camps eh? It seems we've entered Godwin territory here.

Your charter of rights is 'pussy-footing'? There are some interesting regimes that you family can try to move to, Russia for instance has none of this political correctness BS.

My favorite part of the Charter is the part that says, "In a REASONABLE and JUST society". A lot of the stupidity that people cry about when trying to reference the charter goes down in flames when it encounters the 'reasonability' test.

[no1ninja]

Concentration camps eh? It seems we've entered Godwin territory here.

Yes concentration camps start of just like this. Whether you were Japanese, Jewish or Gypsie, the government would suspend your rights and due process.

I talked to someone who grew up in Warsaw in that time. This is what he told me. The Germans would cordone off an entire neighborhood. Everyone in that sector needed to have valid papers. If you forgot them at home, because you were lazy, there was no time at all to call someone or to clarify. You were put on the back of the truck and driven to a concentration camp. Too many Jews and politicals claimed not to have papers, therefore anyone without them was put under the same fate.

Now, you want to roll your eyes... well roll them. Hope it helps you, but these things happen in the blink of an eye. If its so easy to suspend your rights for a bunch of dignitaries, imagine if things got a little more complicated.

My favorite part of the Charter is the part that says, "In a REASONABLE and JUST society". A lot of the stupidity that people cry about when trying to reference the charter goes down in flames when it encounters the 'reasonability' test.

I don't know what is reasonable about being detained without an explanation or being allowed your rights. Most of these people did nothing but protest peacefully. What was unreasonable about it?

I did not see one example of protestor attacking the police. I saw plenty of police attacking peaceful protesters. It was beat up the citizen day. Something I will never forget, and will always attribute to Harper as long as I live. (and by the way before G20, I did not care much for Canadian politics. I will now vote to put Harper out of power. That incident is inexcusable.)

Edited March 11, 2011 by no1ninja

[Shakeyhands]

This is another pathetic attempt to demonize PM Harper in advance of the upcoming election. The Liberals cannot run on their record because they don't have one. The last legacy of the Liberals is ADScam and the voters haven't forgotten or forgiven the Liberals for that one yet. Plus the voters dislike Ignatieff. The sooner this election is over the better.

So what should they make it about?

[Mr.Canada]

So what should they make it about?

Truth is there is no reason to have one. Ignatieff and Layton will surely lose seats in the next election. I have no idea why they would want an election. Their numbers are down.

[Wild Bill]

WRONG. Anytime you have citizens herded into cages like a concentration camp, without due process and under the guise of a 'fake martial law' than a lot more has been done to your liberties, than the monetary damage to the windows.

This is unforgivable and the KEY REASON why HARPER even if he was half angelic should be voted out.

Why are you blaming Harper? Those were almost all OPP and Toronto Police, not federal RCMP officers. That makes them Dalton McGuinty's boys! What's more, it was DALTON's Ontario judges who came up with those trumped up "police super powers" that failed to pass the Charter tests!

[no1ninja]

Why are you blaming Harper? Those were almost all OPP and Toronto Police, not federal RCMP officers. That makes them Dalton McGuinty's boys! What's more, it was DALTON's Ontario judges who came up with those trumped up "police super powers" that failed to pass the Charter tests!

They were flown in from as far as Calagary and even the east cost. This was not just a provincial thing, this had foreign dignitaries in the mix. The feds needed to be in control at all times. (In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 20 something out of province cops were happy to be beating up on the Toronto unwashed.)

The tactics used, were something us GTA folks never seen in our lives. (it was not consistant with day to day policing in the city, this wasn't just a bunch of Toronto cops saying lets beat up some protesters. Too much money was spent on PLANNING and the latest communications gear was deployed. How they missed the galss breakers, when they were practically breathing down the neck of grandma with a jesus sign is beyond me.

It was odd, that the protesters which were the most rowdy the police moved away from, yet they had 300 pounder on bubble girl.)

Edited March 11, 2011 by no1ninja

[Moonbox]

Yes concentration camps start of just like this. Whether you were Japanese, Jewish or Gypsie, the government would suspend your rights and due process.

Now, you want to roll your eyes... well roll them. Hope it helps you, but these things happen in the blink of an eye. If its so easy to suspend your rights for a bunch of dignitaries, imagine if things got a little more complicated.

I will ABSOLUTELY roll my eyes at you, and you deserve it. You brought up Germany in WWII to compare to Canada's G20 summit. That's a freaking joke.

Using your brilliant logic, I could say that the black masked protestors were just like the murderous red band communist revolutionaries who overthrew the Czar in WWI. I mean, they burned and smashed stores and stuff and attacked police property etc right? It's TOTALLY the same thing....

I don't know what is reasonable about being detained without an explanation or being allowed your rights. Most of these people did nothing but protest peacefully. What was unreasonable about it?

Some were protesting peacefully. Some weren't. There may have been breaches in constitutional rights, but they were so minor, particularly under the circumstances and given the history of G20 summits, to be barely noteworthy.

I did not see one example of protestor attacking the police. I saw plenty of police attacking peaceful protesters. It was beat up the citizen day. Something I will never forget, and will always attribute to Harper as long as I live. (and by the way before G20, I did not care much for Canadian politics. I will now vote to put Harper out of power. That incident is inexcusable.)

Ah. More anectotes. I'd betting you weren't actually at the protests. As far as I know, nobody was seriously hurt, so beat up the citizen day seems like a pretty hokey thing to say. There was maybe a handful of people out of thousands who sustained minor injuries, but they were the idiots who decided to clash against a riot police wall for their own genius reasons.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Moonbox

[scribblet]

Good grief! As though they aren't in all-out campaign mode (using a lot of taxpayers $ as well as their own) already.

And your link? The most important word in it is 'majority'. It's the difference between the will of parliament and contempt of parliament.

Nope, not yet... committees are not the will of parliament, the article points out how they are used and a need to reform the Parliamentary committee system.

[scribblet]

Why are you blaming Harper? Those were almost all OPP and Toronto Police, not federal RCMP officers. That makes them Dalton McGuinty's boys! What's more, it was DALTON's Ontario judges who came up with those trumped up "police super powers" that failed to pass the Charter tests!

Of course they will blame Harper for everything, just like they are blaming Harper for McGuinty choosing the HST

[Wild Bill]

The tactics used, were something us GTA folks never seen in our lives. (it was not consistant with day to day policing in the city, this wasn't just a bunch of Toronto cops saying lets beat up some protesters. Too much money was spent on PLANNING and the latest communications gear was deployed. How they missed the galss breakers, when they were practically breathing down the neck of grandma with a jesus sign is beyond me.

You really don't know much about Ontario police outside of the GTA, do you? Toronto is not all of Canada or even Ontario. You really should get out more!

Have you ever heard of Caledonia? You must be totally ignorant if you think that Ontario police could never do such things on their own and must be led by the feds! McGuinty's boys threw an entire TOWN to the wolves! They left them with ZERO protection of law!

It's posts like yours that are part of the reason everybody likes to hate Toronto!

[nicky10013]

You really don't know much about Ontario police outside of the GTA, do you? Toronto is not all of Canada or even Ontario. You really should get out more!

Have you ever heard of Caledonia? You must be totally ignorant if you think that Ontario police could never do such things on their own and must be led by the feds! McGuinty's boys threw an entire TOWN to the wolves! They left them with ZERO protection of law!

It's posts like yours that are part of the reason everybody likes to hate Toronto!

Everything has a reason. Remember Dudley George? If McGuinty had sent in the OPP to crack skulls and someone ended up dead, you might not have a problem with it but it would seriously undermine the authority (already lacking) of the provincial and even federal authorities on both sides of the issue.

Also, the reason why everyone likes to hate Toronto is an inferiority complex. Toronto isn't any better or worse than any other place, it's just bigger. It gets the most attention in the news because the most amount of people live there. Our sports team gets covered the most because there are more viewers that watch them than any other team in the country - obviously not because they're better but because they make more ad revenue due to the higher audiences. They hate Toronto because for some stupid reason people outside of Toronto think that Torontonians only care about themselves precisely because Toronto gets the most coverage even though that one is true, but then again everyone does that. Which is where this problem lies. You're bemoaning him about the fact that he only cares about what happens in downtown Toronto and not in Caledonia. However, you're doing the exact same thing. You're totally ignoring the fact that what happened in the G20 really had an effect on the people that live and work in the city.

Unless of course I'm getting wrong the reason why people hate Toronto - why is that?

[dre]

"demonize PM Harper?" LOFL!

Have you not seen the CPC attack ads on TV "demonizing" Ignatieff? Because, you know, he's not here for you.

Prime Minister Harper deserves everything he gets.

Michael Ignatieff at least can say AdScam wasn't this Liberal Party, he's the new guy remember? Harper cannot get off the hook so easily.

Iv seen those adds. Theyre pretty sad.

Neither of those parties have any chance at all of luring me into the voting booth if theres an election, and when I see those moronic adds it makes me wonder if the political system is even worth participating in. The people that made them think that Canadians are complete retards, and the sad thing is Im not even sure theyre wrong.

[Wilber]

Iv seen those adds. Theyre pretty sad.

Neither of those parties have any chance at all of luring me into the voting booth if theres an election, and when I see those moronic adds it makes me wonder if the political system is even worth participating in. The people that made them think that Canadians are complete retards, and the sad thing is Im not even sure theyre wrong.

My feeling as well.

[kimmy]

So what should they make it about?

Finally, somebody asks the magic question. Good for you, Shakey! Valuable kimmy-points will be credited to your account!

Should they make it about Harper? No. Making the election about Harper will just remind the voter of what the alternatives to Harper are... and most voters find the alternatives about as appealing as a case of genital warts.

Should they make it about Afghan detainees? I don't think Canadian voters actually care about Afghan detainees. I don't think there's many votes to win on that issue. (Ditto with Li'l Omar.)

Thumbing their nose at Parliamentary committees? I think most voters will just view that as typical partisan politics. Not something that's going to win votes.

Elections Canada and the "in-and-out" scheme? Can't hurt, but I don't think it's a major vote-getter either. That's not your major ammunition.

Jet fighters? For the Liberals that's a little risky because it will remind voters of the time we spent hundreds of millions of dollars cancelling helicopter contracts and didn't end up with any helicopters at all. You can raise the question of whether we're spending too much. You can ask why we didn't look at other suppliers. But don't even consider promising that you're going to scrap the purchase or you'll remind voters of the EH-101 fiasco.

Should they make it about the G20 "police state"? I actually find that idea pretty funny. I think most Canadians feel that the G20 protesters were a bunch of morons who went looking for trouble. I think that Canadian voters will recall images of burning police cars and smashed storefronts and feel not an ounce of sympathy for the protesters.

What will resonate with voters: "Fake Lake". The $1 billion plus price-tag for G20. Remind voters how much that fiasco cost. Tell voters what could have been done with all that money instead. Then remind the voters about the budget deficit. (If you're the Liberals, also remind the voters that the last time you were in charge we had an annual budget surplus that was paying down the national debt and reducing our annual interest payments.) Point out some of the other Conservative financial decisions that have resulted in questionable results for Canada. Dig into the "stimulus package" and show Canadians what all that money really bought for us (and regardless of whether it was actually well spent or not, you can find a way to make it look like it was wasted. It's a winning strategy.)

That's where the Conservatives are really vulnerable. That's what the opposition should make the election about.

-k

[capricorn]

[

Edited March 14, 2011 by capricorn

[capricorn]

Good post Kimmy.

About the F-35s. I think with some voters, that taps into the sovereignty question. Does Canada want the most modern equipment available to defend our territory and want the ability to go into action abroad when conditions dictate we must? Harper has laid the groundwork that sovereignty matters when he elevated Arctic sovereignty as one of his platform policies.

If the Liberals harken back to their record of governing with a surplus and their deft handling of the economy, this could well stir memories of Adscam and other Liberal sins. There would be claims that the surplus enjoyed by the Liberals was also a result of cutting transfers to provinces which harmed health care, education and other services provided by the Provinces, reduction of EI benefits, and dipping into the public service pension fund.

About stimulus spending. The Liberals were egging the Conservatives on to spend, and in fact wanted more stimulus spending over and above what the Conservatives proposed. I think the Conservatives can make a case in that respect. The numbers showing a growing economy are a testament that the stimulus package went a long way to putting us on the road to economic recovery. Managing through a recession and achieving deficit reduction ahead of schedule is an achievement the Government can champion effectively. For the Liberals, the economy could prove to be a landmine.

All told, I think the Liberals should run with the ethics question and needless spending, especially with regard to advertising costs of the Economic Action Plan. There are other examples they can raise and the well is deep. Canadians understand numbers when it comes to how their tax dollars are spent. Prorogation, the Speaker's rulings on breach of parliamentary privilege and anything remotely connected most certainly fit this category.

Bottom line, battle lines between the economy and ethical governance are clear cut. Both cases can be put forward with facts and numbers. All other policy planks are peripheral issues unless one side comes up with a brain wave. Then, it will merely be a question of which leader can most forcibly make his case in an election campaign, i.e in the span of 30 days.

IMHO, of course.