Canada (NATO) at war with Libya

[William Ashley]

So Canada is openly aiding the "rebel/revolutionaries"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-prepares-to-join-effort-to-aid-libyan-opposition/article1923588/

Shouldn't a declaration of war be official before - or a parliamentary approval of war with Libya before aiding one side or another in a foreign conflict?

This deal is as good as dead unless they actually overthrow Gadaffi

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b6100003

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/milner-economy/easing-of-oil-prices-to-be-temporary/article1924052/

Edited March 1, 2011 by William Ashley

[kimmy]

So Canada is openly aiding the "rebel/revolutionaries"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-prepares-to-join-effort-to-aid-libyan-opposition/article1923588/

Shouldn't a declaration of war be official before - or a parliamentary approval of war with Libya before aiding one side or another in a foreign conflict?

This deal is as good as dead unless they actually overthrow Gadaffi

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b6100003

I think most people feel that waiting to see who wins is no longer acceptable. Most criticism Canada's position on these Middle East uprisings is that we have been too patient in withdrawing support from dictators. We have come late to this party. And the idea that we should continue to support Colonel Moe for the sake of Canadian businesses operating in Libya may be a pragmatic stance, but it is not a moral one, and many blame that sort of attitude for our problems with the Muslim world in the first place.

-k

[William Ashley]

I think most people feel that waiting to see who wins is no longer acceptable. Most criticism Canada's position on these Middle East uprisings is that we have been too patient in withdrawing support from dictators. We have come late to this party. And the idea that we should continue to support Colonel Moe for the sake of Canadian businesses operating in Libya may be a pragmatic stance, but it is not a moral one, and many blame that sort of attitude for our problems with the Muslim world in the first place.

-k

But is it prudent to declare war on the whole middle east or any specific country for being them?

I think it is not very prudent to wage a war with the Arab world. The long term effects will likely be bad economically and really not benefit Canada - and be a tremendous violation of sovereignty of a culture of peoples who are themselves.

More on the war

Italy's foreign minister on Sunday suspended a nonaggression treaty with Libya on the grounds that the Libyan state "no longer exists," while Ms. Clinton said the United States was reaching out to the rebels to "offer any kind of assistance."

And what is so great about the other "democratic side" who has another Colonel and military Junta running the show?

What is the difference other than a new face?

Or is this to be yet another puppet state "for democracy" give me a break.

Backing puppet democracy the world around..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h2CEHsGzt4

further explained here

--

There is a clear difference between supporting and not supporting --- and supporting the enemy.

Not supporting something is not the same as going against it.

There are three paths support neutrility and against.

---

This situation really has nothing to do with Canada. I'm not for interventionism and imperialism without a permit.

Use of force to exact opinion is just as dastardly if not more than what is occuring domestically in Libya.

Essentially this democratic movement is militant insurrection - something also illegal in Canada. Canada supporting this type of behaviour is a little backward to its own law.

I think Canada is non democratic - that doesn't give me the right to overthrow the government through use of violence. Canada supporting these same behaviours in Libya is a little hypocritical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

Gaddafi forces people to be involved in democracy and politics in Libya - it is against the law not be involved in politics in Libya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Libya

Edited March 1, 2011 by William Ashley

[eyeball]

I think most people feel that waiting to see who wins is no longer acceptable.

I suppose, the illusion of Harper along with the rest of world's leaders acting like deer in the glare of a headlight, acting for all the world as if they'd never seen a real tyrant before is almost laughable.

Most criticism Canada's position on these Middle East uprisings is that we have been too patient in withdrawing support from dictators.

A few critics would point out we've been supporting dictatorships like Gadaffi's for far too long - that we're the one's the world should be impatient with.

We have come late to this party. And the idea that we should continue to support Colonel Moe for the sake of Canadian businesses operating in Libya may be a pragmatic stance, but it is not a moral one, and many blame that sort of attitude for our problems with the Muslim world in the first place.

-k

Yeah there always seems to be some first place or event or something where some original sin or misguided decision leaves people and their descendents in the lurch...just when our species could be faced with some of the direst global challenges relating to environmental and economic sustainability it's ever faced too. What a sad and potentially really crippling co-incidence.

Oh well, maybe it'll be that venal corrupt attitude that will separate the winners from the losers.

[Muddy]

As the guy on the street in libya says, we don`t want military help. libyans will settle this. So turn on the BBC and Aljazeera and watch history and democracy unfold Arab style. Who knows what lies ahead for this country. As Kadaffi says, all Libyans love him.

[Saipan]

Shouldn't a declaration of war be official before - or a parliamentary approval of war with Libya before aiding one side or another in a foreign conflict?

There's no war with Lybia. Just with Khadafi. And it's not a real war yet. Unlike Balkans.

[xul]

And it's not a real war yet. Unlike Balkans.

It will not be a real war because, unlike the time of the Kosovo War, the biggest war fan in the world now is at the state of "insufficient funds"---which used to prompted out when my son was playing a computer war game called Red Alert by spending too much on tanks, planes and warships.....when he was 4 years old.

Edited March 2, 2011 by xul

[William Ashley]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/948547--more-canadians-flee-libya-as-dutch-commandos-captured?bn=1

dutch special forces (marines)captured.

as 400 US marines arrive in crete

http://arabnews.com/world/article299187.ece

Edited March 4, 2011 by William Ashley

[myata]

No need for a war. Just level out the playing field by dispatching particularly nasty thugs with heavy guns and let the people deal with the despot.

Ironic isn't it how our moral worth is all spent in Iraq and Afghanistan's dubious to say very mildly projects only to be passive observers in a historic events that are unfolding.

My respect and every word of support, sympathy and encouragement to the people who are bravely standing up for their freedom. Bravo!

[Saipan]

It's all about seldefence and defence of our allies.

With notable exception of attack on Serbia.

[myata]

It's all about seldefence and defence of our allies.

With notable exception of attack on Serbia.

And attack on Iraq? And ongoing attack on Afghanistan?

[Saipan]

YES!

[Saipan]

And attack on Iraq? And ongoing attack on Afghanistan?

You're confusing Saddam and Iraq.

As well as Taliban with Afghanistan.

[myata]

You're confusing Saddam and Iraq.

As well as Taliban with Afghanistan.

I'm not confusing anything. Not by the number of casualties, nor by the facts (i.e. troops) on the ground. Nothing like that is proposed for Libya. But nothing happens anyways.

Looks like we're making all the wrong moves for the wrong reasons.

[Saipan]

Looks like we're making all the wrong moves for the wrong reasons.

That was when Clinton & Chretien goofed with war in Balkans.

[myata]

And against heroism of people of Lybia, our non existent role isn't really worth mentioning.

Bangling into wrong places or standing by idle in endless discussions seems to be the only choices we can take.

[William Ashley]

first dutch special forces.. now SAS???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12658054

[William Ashley]

Sort of funny worth sharing

SPOKESMAN FOR MUSTAFA ABDEL JALIL: They made a big mistake with coming with helicopter I think, in open area, so I don't know...

RICHARD NORTHERN: Oh, did they? I didn't know how they were coming.

SPOKESMAN FOR MUSTAFA ABDEL JALIL: Yeah, it was a helicopter in an open area so the people they note that there was somebody, some people coming down...

RICHARD NORTHERN: Oh, I'm not surprised. That is alarmed them.

SPOKESMAN FOR MUSTAFA ABDEL JALIL: They talked to them and there is investigation now going on.

RACHAEL BROWN: A spokesman from the rebel stronghold Benghazi has told reporters rebels refused to talk to the British delegation because of the way they entered the country. The team is said to have entered without prior arrangements, in the dead of night, carrying guns explosives and passports of multiple nationalities.

source: http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3156642.htm

[William Ashley]

France wants to bomb Libya.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/10/france-libya-plan-idUSLDE7292MY20110310

This as NATO thightens the Naval blockade noose.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/NATO-Will-Send-Ships-Closer-to-Libya-to-Enforce-Arms-Embargo-117747503.html

With a naval blockade --- and a non sanctioned air blockade.. it leaves land routes as the only means of import and export of goods.

This when the west is tunsinia and the east is egypt both in slightly less than solid states... leaving a southern route... but what is to the south..

Algeria, Niger, and Chad.. and whole lot of seemingly dust and rock.

Edited March 10, 2011 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-sending-six-fighter-jets-to-help-enforce-libyan-no-fly-zone/article1946899/

Canada prepares to impose "no fly zone" for libya over libya

---- This no fly zone seems to includes Naval bombarment and airstrikes.

“all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory.”

Although this sort of resolution seems to disallow the US from conducting operations in Libya due to potential risk to civilians.

If it did it might require the UN members to shoot down US planes and SINK us vessels.

Edited March 18, 2011 by William Ashley

[scribblet]

I would prefer that we didn't get involved in this, but we are a member of NATO and the U.N. but no surprise at the attacks on Canada's position. But really, do you actually believe that Canada would not be involved with men and equipment if it were the Liberals in power - really - who sent the troops to Afghanistan and Iraq.. It is a U.N. resolution at a belated attempt to save lives, so we would be hard pressed to refuse.

Bob Rae seems to think we should be more "active and inventive" to help speed Gadhafi's overthrow.

[Mr.Canada]

Canada hasn't declared war since 1939. Please try to be accurate with your knee jerk reaction commentary please William.

Canada is helping to enforce a no fly zone over Libya, that's it. We're talking about 6 CF-18's. We're working with our other allies and Arab League countries.

[madmax]

Lets have some Corporate Tax Cuts.

IF Canadas at war and needs these new Fighter Jets , we can't have Canadian Banks and Insurance Companies, let alone the Oil Companies pay their share.

Please, lets give these corporations a break. Canada is only at War in Afghanistan and now enforcing the No Fly zone in Libya.

Banks and Corporations can't afford to pay their fair share of these expeditions.

Corporate tax cuts now, Make the people pay.

[Saipan]

Bob Rae seems to think we should be more "active and inventive" to help speed Gadhafi's overthrow.

Liberating occupied countries (like Tibet) ought to come before taking sides in civil war.

[ToadBrother]

So Canada is openly aiding the "rebel/revolutionaries"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-prepares-to-join-effort-to-aid-libyan-opposition/article1923588/

Shouldn't a declaration of war be official before - or a parliamentary approval of war with Libya before aiding one side or another in a foreign conflict?

This deal is as good as dead unless they actually overthrow Gadaffi

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b6100003

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/milner-economy/easing-of-oil-prices-to-be-temporary/article1924052/

This is a UN-sanctioned action, so no, no declaration of war is required. That is, on the face of it, one of major reasons the UN exists.

Edited March 18, 2011 by ToadBrother