bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 -35C here right now...good points: it's so cold where my computer sits @ the house that the fan doesn't need to run and you can use a shovel to clean-up the dog pee in the snow as it is a solid. Sounds exciting.....Alaska is all the rage right now, based on the gold mining and bush airline reality TV shows. Ice road truckers is so last decade! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GWiz Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Indeed an arctic outflow. All the newcomers here I meet are just hating it. Which is why few end-up staying here, I suppose. Nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there? - 26c WC - 35c, a "balmy" day in Winnipeg... I LOVE IT! Truism... No matter how COLD it gets, one can add and layer clothing to stay warm and be reasonably comfortable... But when it gets HOT, there are only so many clothes that one can take off... - GWiz Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) Nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there? - 26c WC - 35c, a "balmy" day in Winnipeg... I LOVE IT! Truism... No matter how COLD it gets, one can add and layer clothing to stay warm and be reasonably comfortable... But when it gets HOT, there are only so many clothes that one can take off... - GWiz When it's hot I can go swimming at the beach... Sherkston,Sauble,and Wasaga beaches are very close.. Plus there's the "Ta Ta Parade"!!!! And ice cold beers!!! Edited February 19, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 When it's hot I can go swimming at the beach... Sherkston,Sauble,and Wasaga beaches are very close.. Plus there's the "Ta Ta Parade"!!!! And ice cold beers!!! Got you beat... Longest and largest fresh water white sand beaches in the world along both sides of Lake Winnipeg about 45 min. from my back door... The fishin's not bad either in Manitoba's 100,000 ++ lakes and rivers, hell I don't even need to leave the city to catch record sized CAT FISH on the Red... Hmmm, that reminds me, did you see my post about the CFL schedule and your "pussy cats"? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Jack Weber Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Got you beat... Longest and largest fresh water white sand beaches in the world along both sides of Lake Winnipeg about 45 min. from my back door... The fishin's not bad either in Manitoba's 100,000 ++ lakes and rivers, hell I don't even need to leave the city to catch record sized CAT FISH on the Red... Hmmm, that reminds me, did you see my post about the CFL schedule and your "pussy cats"? You don't have Hutch's On The Beach... And I did not see the CFL sched' here because I did'nt see it posted in the Spots board... I have seen it at Ticats.ca... I believe we play the mosquito infested Blew Bummers twice at Ivor Wynne... Has Buckaroo been put on IR yet for...sneezing...Or something??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
GWiz Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 You don't have Hutch's On The Beach... And I did not see the CFL sched' here because I did'nt see it posted in the Spots board... I have seen it at Ticats.ca... I believe we play the mosquito infested Blew Bummers twice at Ivor Wynne... Has Buckaroo been put on IR yet for...sneezing...Or something??? Nope, no Hutch's, just Skinners and Half Moon, look 'em up... Here's the Schedule - http://cl.exct.net/?qs=badf5886609b3751ac895cdce5778ff36cb03075b3b92089d60f0bbf974675e9 Mosquito infested Ivor Wynne stadium, veeerry inteeresting, but stupid (Laugh In)... Shouldn't you be more worried about which QB will show up for the Smog City pussy cats on game day, hot shot Kevin or also ran Kevin, instead of Buck??? It's those Mc.D brainfries getting to you I'll bet... You need some "fresh air"! Let me know when next you're heading for the Peg and I'll take you out fishin' (FISH not girls) in my boat if you're interested... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
xul Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Well I guess the critics can stop saying the Tories hate immigrants now. I have to tell Canadian that the Tories are partially the cause of Canadian immigration problem. 4 years ago, the CPC was electied. Its immigration minister told Canadian there were about 600,000 applications of immigration in the backlog. Merely a few months later, the Minister told the parliament that the backlog had increased into 1,000,000, so she had to force the parliament to pass the bill C-50 to fix it. The bill C-50 was passed, and Canada still receives about 250,000 immigrants each year. Thus, Canada has received over 1 million immigrants since then so there would no longer be any backlogs. But if anyone asks the Tories, they will tell you there still are 600,000 in the backlog and they have gone back to the start point when they were elected. If someone may wonder what the conservatves have been doing since the bill passed and what is the function of the bill C-50, I will suggest him to check the CIC website. There is a chart which shows that the waiting time of applications applied after the C-50 bill is about a year so he may think the conservative at least has reduced the waiting times. But if he checks another chart of those applied before the C-50, he will find the waiting time has increased into over 5-7 years---under the same conservative rule. If there is anyone who doesn't understand what I'm talking about, I can make a joke to explain: There was a thread stated that most Canadian need to wait months for MRI, so Harper vowed to fix it for Canadian. The conservative boss passed the ministerial decree No.C-500000, which stated like this: each MRI applications applied after the ministerial decree will be processed as a priority. Then he came to TV and told Canadian that he had fixed the problem by reducing the waiting time of those applied after his C-500000 decree to a few days. He just forgot mentioning that the waiting time of those applied before his bill had increased to a few yeas... If someone feels curious why the backlog had increased dramatically just a few months later after the conservative was elected, I will have to tell him this is why I said the conservative was partially the cause of the problem. In the time of Liberal rule, applying Canada immigration was a difficult job. You had to have years of professional jobs, you had to pass English or French level tests...and then you had to submit all these support documents to CIC with you application. When the conservative was elected, I don't know why, but I think it might be a gesture to do the immigrants a favour, their immigration minister declared that CIC would no longer demanded the support documents for appling Canada immigration. What a applicant needed to do was just to fill a form and mail it to a CIC office. The documents would only be needed when the immigration officer processed his application. I think everyone now can see the flaw of the plan. If there is a Chinese who can not read English at all but wants to apply Canada immigration, there will be no problem---he can fill the form tell immigration officer that his English is excellent and begins to study. When the immigration officer processes his application, which is supposed to be 4 years later, his English might be excellent. Or there is an Indian kid who is only in high school, don't worry, 7 years later---that's the waiting time in his hometown, he would have graduated from a college and would be an professional, so he can also fill the form stated him as a professional.... Just imagine, if anyone who can apply MRI without a doctor reference..... Quote
Bonam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 The term 'economic migrants' includes both the principal and his family, so only about 20-25% of that number are actually educated/skilled individuals who may or may not speak English/French. The others are not assessed as to their language or skills or education. As to sponsored family members, there is no real mechanism in place to enforce that sponsorship. Many sponsors renege, sometimes the moment their relative steps off the plane, leaving various social welfare agencies to support them. My parents did that to get my grandmother here back in the 90s. Got away with it for about 10 years, but they got a bill for $40k from the government 2 years back asking them to pay for the services that my grandmother had received which they had been supposed to sponsor. So apparently there is some kind of mechanism to "enforce" the sponsorship, even if it does take about a decade to process. Remember, also, that if we allow someone to sponsor their parents or grandparents those older people will come here and, having contributed nothing (and likely will never contribute anything) to Canada will still consume services, such as health care. According to one site I found there are currently 100,000 grandparents and parents in the queue for entry. Yep once they become citizens (after 3 years of being here and being sponsored by the family that brought them over) they are eligible for all the benefits that Canadians are. So my grandma now gets government pension and lives in a nice apartment. Good deal for her for sure. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Posted February 20, 2011 My parents did that to get my grandmother here back in the 90s. Got away with it for about 10 years, but they got a bill for $40k from the government 2 years back asking them to pay for the services that my grandmother had received which they had been supposed to sponsor. So apparently there is some kind of mechanism to "enforce" the sponsorship, even if it does take about a decade to process. Yep once they become citizens (after 3 years of being here and being sponsored by the family that brought them over) they are eligible for all the benefits that Canadians are. So my grandma now gets government pension and lives in a nice apartment. Good deal for her for sure. Your parents have taught you to be a deadbeat with no sense of civic responsibility. I hope it serves you well in life. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Bonam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Your parents have taught you to be a deadbeat with no sense of civic responsibility. I hope it serves you well in life. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 And this Fascistic clown wants to report me for pointing out his abject lunacy... I can't wait for his proposed Fascist revolt to get rid of the "socialist traitors"... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
August1991 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) From the OP: Last year, Canada welcomed 280,636 immigrants to the country. That is the highest level in 57 years, surpassing Ottawas target. 57 years? That would be 1953 or 1954. Why 57 years? Around 1910, Canada received as many as 400,000 immigrants annually when the country's population was about 7 million. Immigration levels now are well below historic levels. We are a large country with lots of space. Many more can come and live here. We Canadians provide a civilized place in this world. (On a related point, I happen to think that the world does not lack for children; it lacks for educated children.) ---- BTW, I would look at net immigration statistics not gross statistics. Canada accepts now around 300,000 immigrants annually (gross) but around 150,000 leave every year - usually to the US. IOW, our net immigration is much lower than the OP implies - and Canada is America's immigration selection system. Australia, OTOH, has lower gross immigration statistics but in fact keeps more of them so the net statistics are higher than Canada's. Edited February 20, 2011 by August1991 Quote
msj Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Yep once they become citizens (after 3 years of being here and being sponsored by the family that brought them over) they are eligible for all the benefits that Canadians are. So my grandma now gets government pension and lives in a nice apartment. Good deal for her for sure. Well, we know she's not getting the CPP unless she worked in Canada to pay into it. So, then, you must mean the Old Age Security pension. Hmmm, 3 years to get that, huh? When the rules state one has to live in Canada for at least 10 years? There's a warp in your time line somewhere.... Oh, and in case you were thinking about the GIS - one isn't eligible for that unless one is also eligible to receive the OAS. So, nope, she's not getting that pension either. Of course, there was that thread a while back where some "East Indian" Liberal (who is is really a Canadian since she was born in Winnipeg, iirc) wanted to change the eligibility for OAS down to 3 years. But that bill did not pass. So, what are you talking about with your unverified personal anecdote? Might want to check your time line for that warp.... Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Bonam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Well, we know she's not getting the CPP unless she worked in Canada to pay into it. So, then, you must mean the Old Age Security pension. Hmmm, 3 years to get that, huh? When the rules state one has to live in Canada for at least 10 years? There's a warp in your time line somewhere.... Oh, and in case you were thinking about the GIS - one isn't eligible for that unless one is also eligible to receive the OAS. So, nope, she's not getting that pension either. Of course, there was that thread a while back where some "East Indian" Liberal (who is is really a Canadian since she was born in Winnipeg, iirc) wanted to change the eligibility for OAS down to 3 years. But that bill did not pass. So, what are you talking about with your unverified personal anecdote? Might want to check your time line for that warp.... Honestly, I'm not sure which program she gets pension under. At this point, she has indeed been here for over 10 years so it could well be OAS. I do know she had welfare for the first three years (which is the $40k that had to be paid back) but shortly after she became a citizen she got some kind of pension instead. I did see this note on the OAS page: Sponsored and non-sponsored immigrants: Newcomers with less than 10 years of residence in Canada who qualify for Old Age Security under a social security agreement will have their Guaranteed Income Supplement/ Allowance entitlement grow gradually over 10 years - 1/10th of the benefit for each year of residence. This includes: * persons who have not resided in Canada for 10 years after the age of 18; * sponsored immigrants who’s sponsorship agreement has broken down. http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/isp/oas/oasoverview.shtml Edited February 20, 2011 by Bonam Quote
msj Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Honestly, I'm not sure which program she gets pension under. At this point, she has indeed been here for over 10 years so it could well be OAS. I do know she had welfare for the first three years (which is the $40k that had to be paid back) but shortly after she became a citizen she got some kind of pension instead. I did see this note on the OAS page: http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/isp/oas/oasoverview.shtml I would not call that anywhere near as being "eligible for all of the benefits that Canadians are." Getting a fraction of a fraction is not even remotely close to getting the benefits that Canadians get. The next time you want to comment on immigration and these people receiving Canadian benefits you should get your facts straight otherwise you look like you're intellectually dishonest at best and an anti-immigration right winger with an agenda at worse. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Bonam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 I would not call that anywhere near as being "eligible for all of the benefits that Canadians are." Getting a fraction of a fraction is not even remotely close to getting the benefits that Canadians get. The next time you want to comment on immigration and these people receiving Canadian benefits you should get your facts straight otherwise you look like you're intellectually dishonest at best and an anti-immigration right winger with an agenda at worse. Shrug, I'm just relaying what I know personally. The exact details of my grandma's financial affairs aren't exactly my business. I do know that it seemed to be enough for her to live decently. She just got a brand new 50'' plasma TV, went on a trip through the US to visit various friends and relatives, and last year went on a trip to Europe To call me anti-immigration is pretty funny considering that I'm an immigrant myself and have actually lived in four countries, and quite possibly might be doing one more if I get the job I'm a finalist for right now Quote
msj Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Shrug, I'm just relaying what I know personally. Which, apparently, isn't much... The exact details of my grandma's financial affairs aren't exactly my business. I do know that it seemed to be enough for her to live decently. She just got a brand new 50'' plasma TV, went on a trip through the US to visit various friends and relatives, and last year went on a trip to Europe Excuse me for not taking your word on this. OAS paid out about $6,255 (as in per year) in 2010 for a Canadian who has lived in Canada for 40 years. If you lived here for 10 years it is a fraction of that number. If you were sponsored and here less than 10 years then it is a fraction of a fraction. So, no, I will not take what you "know personally" on the matter as being even close to a reflection of reality. Especially when it conflicts with known facts. To call me anti-immigration is pretty funny considering that I'm an immigrant myself and have actually lived in four countries, and quite possibly might be doing one more if I get the job I'm a finalist for right now Then let's settle on intellectually dishonest. Seems to fit the fact pattern here. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
August1991 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 The next time you want to comment on immigration and these people receiving Canadian benefits you should get your facts straight otherwise you look like you're intellectually dishonest at best and an anti-immigration right winger with an agenda at worse.msj, the big deal for (older) immigrants is health care - not pensions.I know older Americans who "immigrated" to Canada purely for health reasons. Older people have the patience/time to wait in waiting rooms to receive treatment. Quote
msj Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 msj, the big deal for (older) immigrants is health care - not pensions. I know older Americans who "immigrated" to Canada purely for health reasons. Older people have the patience/time to wait in waiting rooms to receive treatment. Sure, but an immigrant cannot live on health care, if you know what I mean. Bonham wants to imply that an immigrant can come to Canada and within 3 years is getting taxpayer funded pensions that lets one eke out a wonderful existence. This, then, would allow one to live in Canada to then wait to use our health care services, as you put it. Well, I call BS on Bonham. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Bonam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Then let's settle on intellectually dishonest. Seems to fit the fact pattern here. "Settle" on whatever you want. Not my fault that you can't believe that people might have interesting lives. Quote
msj Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 "Settle" on whatever you want. Not my fault that you can't believe that people might have interesting lives. Some of us have interesting lives that actually happened and others have interesting lives that have been made up by grandsons who don't know enough personal details to know diddly. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Bonam Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Some of us have interesting lives that actually happened and others have interesting lives that have been made up by grandsons who don't know enough personal details to know diddly. Lol, ok. Quote
August1991 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Bonham wants to imply that an immigrant can come to Canada and within 3 years is getting taxpayer funded pensions that lets one eke out a wonderful existence.But the same immigrant, within 3 months, has access to cancer treatment, or hip replacement - assuming the immigrant is willing to wait for several hours, and hassle to find a name of a specialist.Older people can do this. Working people have less patience. Edited February 20, 2011 by August1991 Quote
xul Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Of those who come in under the 'skilled' program, the majority are family members of the skilled individual. Only about 17% of immigrants are actually assessed as to their language, skills, education, etc. That's true. But there are not a lof of professors, engineers, managers....who have illiterate wives and idiotic kids. Harper is not an economist. Nor is he a conservative. Harper is a pragmatist above all things. He's clearly decided that getting votes from the rising number of immigrant and ethnic voters is necessary for him to get his long-cherished majority. Harper can not get majority by harming the interests of the majority of the voters---I suppose the majority of the voters are not immigrants at all. That doesn't mean it's good for existing Canadians to bring them over. There isn't a policy which can be good for all "existing Canadians" or can be bad for all of them. If there is a poor shop assistant immigrant came, I think most "existing shop assistant" will not be happy but their bosses and managers will be happy. And if there is a rich shop boss immigrant came, I think the existing shop assistant will be happy but their bosses will not be happy at all. The statistics on how immigrants are faring tell a story of increasing poverty among them. I bet that when the forefathers of the most of "existing Canadian" came to Canada, they might also have had to live in the relative poor conditions for years before they could find a way to make a good life. If Canadian believe that the system of their country is just and fair, or relatively just and fair , they should have confidence that a diligent and hardworkinig immigrant eventually may make a good life in Canada. If Canadian don't want to fund immigrants to get through their first a few years, they can ask their politicians changing the immigration laws and demand immigrants to bring more money from their home countries to fund themselves getting though the hard first years. And I am uneasy about importing so many people from cultures which are so hostile to our own values, and the difficulty of integrating them when schools are becoming 70-80-90% immigrant in many urban areas. It seems like your won values is kinda different from the values of some of your "existing" countrymen expressed under this thread, so what would you suggest Harper to do? Importing some Tian An Men tanks from China for Canadian army guys to squash the "unorthodox value" out of them? Yet! But that is the danger in bringing over large numbers of immigrants when many of them are doing very poorly economically. They will settle into poorer areas and slums will develop. We see some of this now, with certain poor areas well-known for the large numbers of people from certain ethnic groups who reside there. Could you name the streets where the potential slums are so everyone could google-street-view them? I have been looking for buying a home from MLS for a month. I'm under the impression that the street view of some old residential areas nearby the downtown of Toronto aren't very good. I can see the TV cables and Tel wires flying directly into the houses from the lamppost like some kinds of "skynet", but I think it is just because the houses there are old. There are new houses in the outer areas and towns of the city and I know a lot of Chinese immigrants buy their homes there. I think the landscaping of the buildings and streets in these areas is fairly planned and can hardly be related with slum, though the lot size of the new housese is sure smaller than those old houses---a kind of side-effect of growing population and immigrants. Edited February 20, 2011 by xul Quote
Scotty Posted February 20, 2011 Report Posted February 20, 2011 Thing about back yards is they need maintenance, lots of expensive maintenence, Nonsense. Our back yard has oil and gas and diamonds and all sorts of other goodies which turns a nice price at market. Nevertheless, few people live in the back yard. Our house is not empty. It's quite crowded. No one, and I mean NO ONE calls Toronto, as they used to New York Run By The Swiss. It's a dirty, crowded city with horrible traffic problems which can't even find a place to puts own massive garbage piles. And 100,000 new immigrants pour into the city every year. So when are you leaving? If you disagree with my opinion or facts then argue against them, not against me. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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