Mr.Canada Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Last year, Canada welcomed 280,636 immigrants to the country. That is the highest level in 57 years, surpassing Ottawa’s target.Source Well I guess the critics can stop saying the Tories hate immigrants now. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Well I guess the critics can stop saying the Tories hate immigrants now. I haven't heard that so much, but yes they should stop saying that. The Tory supporters, equally incorrectly, have stated that the Tories have no choice but to continue immigration but... Harper is an economist, and the immigration numbers here are record highs. Coincidence ? I would say not. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Mr.Canada Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 I haven't heard that so much, but yes they should stop saying that. The Tory supporters, equally incorrectly, have stated that the Tories have no choice but to continue immigration but... Harper is an economist, and the immigration numbers here are record highs. Coincidence ? I would say not. I was actually surprised the numbers were as high as they were to be honest. Canada doesn't need free loaders we need immigrants with money or skills and a good command of the English/French language. It looks like the government is moving in this direction as well so that's fine. I don't really know much about economics to speak intelligently about it maybe sheer numbers are good for Canada I have no idea really, I just don't like unfettered immigration with no guidelines for newcomers when they get here. This is what could lead to things like honor killings. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I was actually surprised the numbers were as high as they were to be honest. Canada doesn't need free loaders we need immigrants with money or skills and a good command of the English/French language. It looks like the government is moving in this direction as well so that's fine. I don't really know much about economics to speak intelligently about it maybe sheer numbers are good for Canada I have no idea really, I just don't like unfettered immigration with no guidelines for newcomers when they get here. This is what could lead to things like honor killings. The immigrants I meet here are, almost to a person, hard working family people who are happy to be here just to build something for their families. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Mr.Canada Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Posted February 18, 2011 The immigrants I meet here are, almost to a person, hard working family people who are happy to be here just to build something for their families. Yes, I agree the same goes for me. But someone who is a Jihadist, for example, is hardly going to proclaim he is here to bring down western civilization. I understand that this will sound like xenophobia or paranoia but I think it's accurate to be suspicious of people from certain parts of the world or that are of specific religions. To be blind to reality is inherently dangerous. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I haven't heard that so much, but yes they should stop saying that. The Tory supporters, equally incorrectly, have stated that the Tories have no choice but to continue immigration but... Harper is an economist, and the immigration numbers here are record highs. Coincidence ? I would say not. Harper is not an economist. Nor is he a conservative. Harper is a pragmatist above all things. He's clearly decided that getting votes from the rising number of immigrant and ethnic voters is necessary for him to get his long-cherished majority. To that end, he has bowed to the immigration industry just as the Liberals had, and is doing his best to suck up to local ethnic and immigrant leaders - much as he is to Quebec. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) The immigrants I meet here are, almost to a person, hard working family people who are happy to be here just to build something for their families. Yes, they're happy to be here. Who wouldn't be? Probably five billion or so people in the world would be happy to be here. That doesn't mean it's good for existing Canadians to bring them over. The statistics on how immigrants are faring tell a story of increasing poverty among them. And I am uneasy about importing so many people from cultures which are so hostile to our own values, and the difficulty of integrating them when schools are becoming 70-80-90% immigrant in many urban areas. I would bet the Pakistanis who arrived in Britain and the Algerians who arrived in France twenty years ago were happy to be there, too. That hasn't stopped the social unrest, or the race riots, or the development of 'no go' areas, and a huge number of people who feel hostile towards their own country, and see it as hostile to them. Edited February 18, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Yes, they're happy to be here. Who wouldn't be? Probably five billion or so people in the world would be happy to be here. That doesn't mean it's good for existing Canadians to bring them over. That's a difficult assessment to make, as it depends on many different values. Harper certainly seems to think it's a good idea though. The statistics on how immigrants are faring tell a story of increasing poverty among them. And I am uneasy about importing so many people from cultures which are so hostile to our own values, and the difficulty of integrating them when schools are becoming 70-80-90% immigrant in many urban areas. This is relative poverty, not absolute poverty. If we're concerned about that, we should be concerned about relative poverty in general which has been increasing steadily for decades. I would bet the Pakistanis who arrived in Britain and the Algerians who arrived in France twenty years ago were happy to be there, too. That hasn't stopped the social unrest, or the race riots, or the development of 'no go' areas, and a huge number of people who feel hostile towards their own country, and see it as hostile to them. My understanding is that a good deal of the unrest is due to economic issues. I don't think we're in the same boat as France on that front. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 My understanding is that a good deal of the unrest is due to economic issues. I don't think we're in the same boat as France on that front. Yet! But that is the danger in bringing over large numbers of immigrants when many of them are doing very poorly economically. They will settle into poorer areas and slums will develop. We see some of this now, with certain poor areas well-known for the large numbers of people from certain ethnic groups who reside there. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
GWiz Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Well I guess the critics can stop saying the Tories hate immigrants now. Naaa, they still hate 'em... They just realized that Canada is the most underpopulated country in the world and NEEDS immigrants to survive in today's global economy... In their view of course only a "certain kind" of immigrant, which they're working towards, but none the less it's a good thing for everyone in Canada... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
fellowtraveller Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Canada doesn't need free loaders we need immigrants with money or skills and that is pretty much exactly what we get now. Skilled workers are the largest group of people to come here. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Naaa, they still hate 'em... They just realized that Canada is the most underpopulated country in the world and NEEDS immigrants to survive in today's global economy... In their view of course only a "certain kind" of immigrant, which they're working towards, but none the less it's a good thing for everyone in Canada... Don't be a hater. The reality is that Canadian immigration policy is largely unchanged for many years. We take in a pile of skilled workers, and some refugees and family migrants every year. This govt did not introduce that policy and has not substantially changed the old policy. Every year the Candian govt sets targets based on perceived need, Same-same. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 I haven't heard that so much, but yes they should stop saying that. The Tory supporters, equally incorrectly, have stated that the Tories have no choice but to continue immigration but... Harper is an economist, and the immigration numbers here are record highs. Coincidence ? I would say not. Immigrants are absolutely essentiaql to the economy now and in the future. Check out what is happening to Japan for an example of how not to do it. Their economy is in a 20 year tailspin. Their popuation is aging rapidly. Their birthrate is very low. They have virtually no immigration. In 30 years, their popualtion may have dropped by 20% or so. That leaves a small group of taxpayers responsible for coughing up for a much more expensive social package. Disaster, and msot definitely linked to the fear and loathing of immigrants we see in this thread. Is that what we want for Canada? Quote The government should do something.
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Naaa, they still hate 'em... They just realized that Canada is the most underpopulated country in the world and NEEDS immigrants to survive in today's global economy... In their view of course only a "certain kind" of immigrant, which they're working towards, but none the less it's a good thing for everyone in Canada... Canada is one of the most populous countries in the world (35th out of 220), and is growing crowded. There is no evidence I have ever seen that massive immigration does anything worthwhile in terms of the economic betterment of the existing population. There is also no evidence it will have any salutary effect in terms of an aging population. Immigration in Canada is not driven by economics, it is driven by politics. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Immigrants are absolutely essentiaql to the economy now and in the future. Do you have any evidence to support that statement? I'm not looking for a quote from a politicians but actual statistical economic data. Check out what is happening to Japan for an example of how not to do it. Their economy is in a 20 year tailspin. Their popuation is aging rapidly. There is no evidence whatsoever that immigration will have any helpful effect on an aging population. The average age of immigrants is approximately the same as the average age of Canadians. Their birthrate is very low. They have virtually no immigration. In 30 years, their popualtion may have dropped by 20% or so. That leaves a small group of taxpayers responsible for coughing up for a much more expensive social package. Or maybe it leaves a smaller group in a less crowded nation, which will mean people can enjoy life more. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
GWiz Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 Canada is one of the most populous countries in the world (35th out of 220), and is growing crowded. There is no evidence I have ever seen that massive immigration does anything worthwhile in terms of the economic betterment of the existing population. There is also no evidence it will have any salutary effect in terms of an aging population. Immigration in Canada is not driven by economics, it is driven by politics. Hmmm, let's see now, 35th largest population in the 2nd largest country in the world... It does not compute, it does not compute, Watson says, it does not compute - Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 and that is pretty much exactly what we get now. Skilled workers are the largest group of people to come here. Most of them, of course, are not all that skilled. Of those who come in under the 'skilled' program, the majority are family members of the skilled individual. Only about 17% of immigrants are actually assessed as to their language, skills, education, etc. The rest are family members, refugees (who become immigrants almost automatically) and then those coming in in under various other family and economic programs. This is why every public housing project in central Canada is overrun with immigrants. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted February 18, 2011 Report Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Hmmm, let's see now, 35th largest population in the 2nd largest country in the world... It does not compute, it does not compute, Watson says, it does not compute - Watson can go and try and live in the Arctic Tundra and see if it computes there any better. Forget the pretty pictures on your map. Canada is a long, slender country about 100 miles wide that follows the US border. That's our house. The rest is just a big back yard. It's nice to have a big back yard, but you don't live there. And the house is getting crowded. Edited February 18, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
fellowtraveller Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Most of them, of course, are not all that skilled. Of those who come in under the 'skilled' program, the majority are family members of the skilled individual. Only about 17% of immigrants are actually assessed as to their language, skills, education, etc. The rest are family members, refugees (who become immigrants almost automatically) and then those coming in in under various other family and economic programs. This is why every public housing project in central Canada is overrun with immigrants. The stats for 2008 are as follows: economic migrants 149,000, family members 65,000, refugees 21,000 , others 10,000. All the 'family members' would be sponsored by existing family members legally in Canada and are no drain on social services. The public housing projects where I live are poor people of every colour, with few immigrants. The largest group would be First Nations. Quote The government should do something.
Scotty Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 The stats for 2008 are as follows: economic migrants 149,000, family members 65,000, refugees 21,000 , others 10,000. All the 'family members' would be sponsored by existing family members legally in Canada and are no drain on social services. The public housing projects where I live are poor people of every colour, with few immigrants. The largest group would be First Nations. The term 'economic migrants' includes both the principal and his family, so only about 20-25% of that number are actually educated/skilled individuals who may or may not speak English/French. The others are not assessed as to their language or skills or education. As to sponsored family members, there is no real mechanism in place to enforce that sponsorship. Many sponsors renege, sometimes the moment their relative steps off the plane, leaving various social welfare agencies to support them. Remember, also, that if we allow someone to sponsor their parents or grandparents those older people will come here and, having contributed nothing (and likely will never contribute anything) to Canada will still consume services, such as health care. According to one site I found there are currently 100,000 grandparents and parents in the queue for entry. I guess you are from the west if you have a lot of natives in your public housing. Here it is mostly immigrants. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Watson can go and try and live in the Arctic Tundra and see if it computes there any better.... Watson would welcome the opportunity for a naturally cooled environment, but his support crew would not. "Permafrost for $200, Alex" Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Watson would welcome the opportunity for a naturally cooled environment, but his support crew would not. "Permafrost for $200, Alex" -35C here right now...good points: it's so cold where my computer sits @ the house that the fan doesn't need to run and you can use a shovel to clean-up the dog pee in the snow as it is a solid. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) -35C here right now...good points: it's so cold where my computer sits @ the house that the fan doesn't need to run and you can use a shovel to clean-up the dog pee in the snow as it is a solid. Arctic Outflows???? It was 10 Celsius in Sunny Southern Ontario yesterday!!! Edited February 19, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Arctic Outflows???? It was 10 Celsius in Sunny Southern Ontario yesterday!!! Indeed an arctic outflow. All the newcomers here I meet are just hating it. Which is why few end-up staying here, I suppose. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GWiz Posted February 19, 2011 Report Posted February 19, 2011 Watson can go and try and live in the Arctic Tundra and see if it computes there any better. Forget the pretty pictures on your map. Canada is a long, slender country about 100 miles wide that follows the US border. That's our house. The rest is just a big back yard. It's nice to have a big back yard, but you don't live there. And the house is getting crowded. Thing about back yards is they need maintenance, lots of expensive maintenence, and the simple FACT that without that back yard, which you seem to dismiss so out of hand, the HOUSE becomes unsustainable... So when are you leaving? Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
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