bud Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 he has gone out of his way to support mubarak, a dictator, as opposed to showing support for the people of egypt and democracy. israel has way too much influence over harper. this is another example why canada lost a seat in the UN. harper is failing us and ruining our image internationally. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
Smallc Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 he has gone out of his way to support mubarak, He's done what now? Quote
bud Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Posted February 10, 2011 did you miss the news? here is a piece from the star: Harper follows Israeli line on Egypt Harper’s line, lobbied to him by the Canada-Israeli Committee, emphasizing “stability” by keeping Mubarak, ostensibly to avoid “a vacuum.” Harper wants “a future that’s not simply more democratic but where that democracy is guided by such values as non-violence, the rule of law, and respect for human rights, including the rights of religious minorities.” It’s scandalous that a Canadian prime minister is saying that. It is the Mubarak regime that for decades has violated the most basic human rights of Egyptians, ignored the rule of law, and presided over multiple incidents of violence against Coptic Christians, while playing up its own phony Islamist credentials to cover up its lack of democratic legitimacy. Whereas most Egyptians want Mubarak gone, Harper wants him to stay. This despite past Conservative promises to promote democracy abroad. He is squandering a historic opportunity to do so in the Arab Middle East. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
scribblet Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 It would be scandalous if he didn't support Israel Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
guyser Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) did you miss the news? here is a piece from the star: Harper follows Israeli line on Egypt Harpers line, lobbied to him by the Canada-Israeli Committee, emphasizing stability by keeping Mubarak, ostensibly to avoid a vacuum. So yea, you approve of The Muslim Brotherhood filling that void. Its scandalous that a Canadian prime minister is saying that. It is the Mubarak regime that for decades has violated the most basic human rights of Egyptians, ignored the rule of law, and presided over multiple incidents of violence against Coptic Christians, while playing up its own phony Islamist credentials to cover up its lack of democratic legitimacy. Whereas most Egyptians want Mubarak gone, Harper wants him to stay. This despite past Conservative promises to promote democracy abroad. He is squandering a historic opportunity to do so in the Arab Middle East. Better the enemy you know..... Edited February 10, 2011 by guyser Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 ....this is another example why canada lost a seat in the UN. harper is failing us and ruining our image internationally. No...it's just another opportunity to attack Israel. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bud Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Posted February 10, 2011 So yea, you approve of The Muslim Brotherhood filling that void. i approve people's freedom and democracy. who they choose is their decision. do you approve of democratic elections? Better the enemy you know..... eh? if you truly support democracy, then you'd support the egyptian people. support for democracy should not selective. there are egyptian muslims and christians on the streets of egypt, wanting mubarak out. a dictator who has been killing their rights for over 30 years and you're still not supporting them? shame on you and shame on harper. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
myata Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) this is another example why canada lost a seat in the UN. harper is failing us and ruining our image internationally. He's been that for quite awhile now.. like anybody cares.. it's all about those beans in RRSPs and the price of beer, silly. We get leaders we deserve. In Egypt - young people putting their lives on the line for freedom, we - Harper and Iggy. Better get used to it. Edited February 10, 2011 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Moonbox Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 I think Harper and the rest of the world is worried about a violent revolution. That doesn't help anyone. If Mubarak is going to going to commit to stepping down in the next few months to the entire world, let him do that. There are countless examples of dangerous government transitions where people are not only hurt, but completely ripped off. Look at the end of the USSR to see what happened there. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
bloodyminded Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 I think Harper and the rest of the world is worried about a violent revolution. That doesn't help anyone. If Mubarak is going to going to commit to stepping down in the next few months to the entire world, let him do that. There are countless examples of dangerous government transitions where people are not only hurt, but completely ripped off. Look at the end of the USSR to see what happened there. Yes, Harper's principled stance is evident in the way he opposed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and the violent chaos unleashed there... Oh...wait..... . Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Keepitsimple Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) The Star and Haroon Sadiqui are not exactly members of the Harper Booster Club. Nonetheless, they comprise the "other" side of the argument....so as usual, the truth lies somewhere between. Personally, I read the Canadian response as a careful, pragmatic one: lay the groundwork for an orderly transition to democracy - starting immediately. Obama never said "throw the bum out now" - he said "start the process now". I think we all want to see things happen as quickly as possible but there has to be SOME order to the process. Although it is diplomatically inappropriate for Canada to overtly demand that Mubarak immediately step down - behind the scenes Canada is likely doing exactly that.....and in reality, I would think that Mubarak will take the plunge himself very soon. Edited February 10, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
guyser Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) i approve people's freedom and democracy. who they choose is their decision. do you approve of democratic elections? Yes I do thanks. Would you sell your house and let your wife and kids sleep on the sidewalk cuz you forgot to buy another house? To get democracy is to control how they get there. A void would be the worst possible scenario. if you truly support democracy, then you'd support the egyptian people. support for democracy should not selective. there are egyptian muslims and christians on the streets of egypt, wanting mubarak out. a dictator who has been killing their rights for over 30 years and you're still not supporting them? shame on you and shame on harper. Now now silly....I never said that. Mubarek steps down and says, Ok Im done! Then those with the most might will step in and that cannot happen. Edited February 10, 2011 by guyser Quote
fellowtraveller Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 if you truly support democracy, then you'd support the egyptian people. support for democracy should not selective. If support for democracy is not selective, why are you challenging the actions and statements of our democratically selected PM Harper? Quote The government should do something.
bloodyminded Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) If support for democracy is not selective, why are you challenging the actions and statements of our democratically selected PM Harper? Democracy doesn't mean nodding obediently at every word our Noble leader utters. In fact, that edges into the realm of the anti-democratic. Edited February 10, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
fellowtraveller Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 I see. So support for democracy is selective? Quote The government should do something.
bloodyminded Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I see. So support for democracy is selective? No. You're not understanding. One point is the support for the people's wish for democracy. That--by definition--is "support for democracy." Wondering why everyone shouldn't agree with everything a leader says (elected or not is irrelevant to the point) is--by definition--not "support for democracy." I don't know how you can't understand the distinction. Edited February 10, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bud Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Posted February 10, 2011 If support for democracy is not selective, why are you challenging the actions and statements of our democratically selected PM Harper? what the? you can't be serious. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
bloodyminded Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 what the? you can't be serious. Hopefully not. If so...stinkiest "argument" of the week, perhaps. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
fellowtraveller Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 JUst f***ing with you, though as always I wonder what your opinion would be if exactly the same things were said by Ignatieff as by Harper. I also wonder why people think that Mubaraks replacement will be any different from Mubarak in anything but name? I hope few Egyptans die learning same. Quote The government should do something.
bloodyminded Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) JUst f***ing with you, though as always I wonder what your opinion would be if exactly the same things were said by Ignatieff as by Harper. I have no respect for Ignatieff...but Harper supporters should, to a degree, since both men are avid believers in an imperial America ruling through force. And have both stated as much; but Ignatieff more clearly. I also wonder why people think that Mubaraks replacement will be any different from Mubarak in anything but name?I hope few Egyptans die learning same. Yes, that's a serious concern. But it doesn't mean the Egyptians are wrong; they are right as hell. Edited February 10, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
myata Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 I'll take an issue with "democratically elected" too. If the choice that's available has little meaning (Harper/Iggy) and/or exercising it freely is suppressed either through direct fraud (Afghanistan democracy) or some calculation trick (10% of votes = no representation, 40% = majority, Canada's democracy), it can't be a full democracy, not in my view. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Scotty Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 he has gone out of his way to support mubarak, a dictator, as opposed to showing support for the people of egypt and democracy. israel has way too much influence over harper. this is another example why canada lost a seat in the UN. harper is failing us and ruining our image internationally. Harper's position is basically the one I've had from the start. And mine wasn't arrived at because of "Israeli lobbying". Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
segnosaur Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 he has gone out of his way to support mubarak, a dictator, as opposed to showing support for the people of egypt and democracy. Harper wants “a future that’s not simply more democratic but where that democracy is guided by such values as non-violence, the rule of law, and respect for human rights, including the rights of religious minorities.” I really have to wonder... How does wanting a decocracy "guided by non-violence, rule of law and respect for human rights" actually mean that he "supports Mubarak"? Really, the opinion piece from the opening post simply makes no sense. this is another example why canada lost a seat in the UN. harper is failing us and ruining our image internationally. Really have to wonder about that too... Given the fact that votes in the U.N. are selected by the governments of the countries (not typically by popular vote) and that many of those governments are often not democratic in nature, how exactly is calling for the overthrow of governments going to win Canada any seats? Do you think the government of Syria is saying "Hurry! Overthrow the dictators! No, wait...." Quote
myata Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 Staying this present course (after prorogations, Toronto) we'll certainly get ourselves a "guided" democracy, sooner or later. One either stands for freedom or looses it.. there's not a third option. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
PIK Posted February 10, 2011 Report Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) No...it's just another opportunity to attack Israel. I wish the left would just come out and say ,I hate isreal and its people and hope they all die. Because if this does not go over well ,a new war will start and since isreal will not take any shit from anyone ,things could get very messy very quick. But reading papers and other boards ,it seems the same people that are saying fuck the afghan people are now saying we need to be there for the egyptians. Harper is doing this right.The same thing chretien,martin would do. Edited February 10, 2011 by PIK Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
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