wyly Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Atheism is a belief system with a single "unifying" belief which is the rejection of a diety/creator/supernatural being. Considering that there are a variety of athiestic philosophies you could say there are denominations. a belief is having absurd blind faith...atheists don't have belief we have knowledge, nothing equals zero you cannot believe in something that doesn't exist... a difficult if not impossible concept for a deist to comprehend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 "Flip Wilson was a classic liar" I think you are confused. Flip Wilson was a comedian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_Wilson All artist are liars..they create illusions that we are amused by...now................I love saying this "Evil and Stupidity are the same entity".........and you know why I love stating this - it really pisses evil people off...they all think they are oh so clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 that's a whole other thread. Yeah...the "All Creation Myths are Wrong" thread...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 "Flip Wilson was a classic liar" I think you are confused. Flip Wilson was a comedian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_Wilson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCruefYl3FI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWiz Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCruefYl3FI Gotta love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Going back to discussion of Evil: And even when there are evil movements in the world, they have been justified by their followers in the belief that they are good – Even evil has to be justified as something good. No movement exists that says, “we are going to do something evil”, period. They say, “We are going to do something good”, even though it may be evil, http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=17934&st=90 So the evil of Hitler still reverberate after all these years. Actually we need not dig that far back in history to find an excellent example for that quoted philosphy above. We have in our current time an evil that must surpass that of Hitler's and the Spanish Inquisition. How tragically the status of a human was slowly diminished over the years, until finally, he was totally stripped of his identity, his right and dignity. From human to trash. The fetus in a mother's womb had always been recognized and cherished as a human being. Wether wanted or not, he had his natural right to be born, to be raised, to grow up...the same right that his own mother had enjoyed as a fetus growing in her own mother's womb. However some mothers could not find it in their hearts to carry the child to full term. The shame, the stigma....it was too much. Young women were dying in the back alley in their attempt to terminate their own offsprings. Society said, "for the good of these young women, we better make sure they get help from competent doctors to do the deed." Therefore, open season for any fetus 3 months old and below was declared by law. It's fine to kill babies as long as they're not older than 3 months. In the meantime, contraceptive devices became available to prevent any pregnancies. Alas, that was not enough. Babies were still being murdered even when they were older than what was stipulated. Still, it was for the "good" that this was being done. Good for a young woman not to ruin her life with a baby in tow. Anti-baby murder groups tried their best to protect and save the babies. Films showing how the fetus in the womb tries to evade the instrument that's killing him - a pitiful fight for self-preservation. Babies for Adoption was being pushed as the most practical solution, what with so many childless couples desperate to adopt children. I remember talking to a young woman going to College. She is a supporter of baby killings. I asked why can't a mother carry and deliver the baby, then just give him up for adoption? This young woman answered, "why should she waste 9 months of her life?" It's the time of women empowerment. The movement was just thundering along. So for the good of everyone....and to make those women feel no guilt about snuffing their babies, it became necessary to declare the fetus as not human. To empower women, it became a woman's right to decide whether her child should live or die. Edited February 18, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I am saying that atheist cannot consistently claim the distinction between right and wrong. Take note that I stressed on the word "consistently." Actually religion makes people not consistently understand the distinction between right and wrong. The bible doesn't consistently condemn slavery or even murdering your children (poor Abe). If they're relying on that messed up text with 10 commandments that are largely concerned with propping up an insecure god, they aren't getting much of a moral grounding. And one can see by the behaviour of christians on this board how many are filled with rage and hatred of their fellow human beings. Edited February 18, 2011 by BubberMiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 The fetus in a mother's womb had always been recognized and cherished as a human being. Er, that is a pretty bold statement. Care to back it up? A fetus was "always" considered "a human being"? Not so long ago people of different races, or women, were not even viewed as persons. And in the ancient world slavery was a part of every day life for much of the population, the lives of people in that situation being held at the whim of their masters. Where exactly in this history has a fetus "always" been considered a human being? In which civilizations? At what times in history? I think you are plainly wrong with this statement. The assertion that a fetus is a person and deserving of the full rights of personhood is a relatively modern one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Er, that is a pretty bold statement. Care to back it up? A fetus was "always" considered "a human being"? I think you are plainly wrong with this statement. The assertion that a fetus is a person and deserving of the full rights of personhood is a relatively modern one. I don't need to back that up. It is plain as day! So very in your face. In fact it is you who need to back up your absurd statement because....you got that backward. It should state: The assertion that a fetus is NOT a person and deserving of the full rights of personhood is a relatively modern one. If the fetus wasn't considered a human being all along, can you please explain.... Why there is a need to declare that it is not? Why is there a division among us in this regard? Why are baby-killing advocates so loud in their assertion? Why do you even have to assert? Edited February 18, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) The complete stripping of a fetus' right .... from human to blod clot....is nothing more than to assuage the GUILT of women who don't wish to be encumbered or be inconvenienced for 9 months!There is no difference between Hitler's evil to this present day evil! They can't even call it for what it is. They cannot face it for what it truly is. Edited February 18, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Er, that is a pretty bold statement. Care to back it up? A fetus was "always" considered "a human being"? Not so long ago people of different races, or women, were not even viewed as persons. And in the ancient world slavery was a part of every day life for much of the population, the lives of people in that situation being held at the whim of their masters. Where exactly in this history has a fetus "always" been considered a human being? In which civilizations? At what times in history? I think you are plainly wrong with this statement. The assertion that a fetus is a person and deserving of the full rights of personhood is a relatively modern one. So, contrary to what you implied in previous post, it is safe to conclude then that for you, life has no value? It must be tough to be in a position where in.... damn if you do, damn if you don't. So, we're back to psychoanalysis - you are similar to a psychopath? Edited February 18, 2011 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 If the fetus wasn't considered a human being all along, can you please explain.... Why there is a need to declare that it is not? Given your reasoning skills, I can see why you have such a problem with science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 As I recall Betsy indicated she was brought up as a Catholic and has embarked on a journey of immersion in biblical text. When one reads her views on abortion it is not difficult to conclude that the hatred portrayed in her commentary places her in the camp of the extremist. In this world a woman's right to choose is ignored and the providers of healthcare are demonized. Besty is just another warped Catholic and the evidence of that is in her posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 As I recall Betsy indicated she was brought up as a Catholic and has embarked on a journey of immersion in biblical text. When one reads her views on abortion it is not difficult to conclude that the hatred portrayed in her commentary places her in the camp of the extremist. In this world a woman's right to choose is ignored and the providers of healthcare are demonized. Besty is just another warped Catholic and the evidence of that is in her posts. Which is an interesting touchpoint. Can the force of logic - the cold hard calculus of reason - profoundly change a person's outlook or do they retreat further into that warped world? I don't think there is anything wrong with the discussion and reasoned responses to contentious ideas. But sometimes arguing with an addict is completely useless I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Which is an interesting touchpoint. Can the force of logic - the cold hard calculus of reason - profoundly change a person's outlook or do they retreat further into that warped world? I don't think there is anything wrong with the discussion and reasoned responses to contentious ideas. But sometimes arguing with an addict is completely useless I suppose. Once the religious element is introduced reason goes out the window. I wonder if Besty condones the shootings of several Canadian and American doctors by religious fanatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 .... In this world a woman's right to choose is ignored and the providers of healthcare are demonized. Not necessarily...reproductive healthcare providers also have rights. You can't make them kill fetuses if they choose not to. Besty is just another warped Catholic and the evidence of that is in her posts. This is just another attack on Catholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) It is focussed on the lunatic fringe although my contempt for this church and its various divisions should be obvious. Edited February 18, 2011 by pinko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 It is focussed on the lunatic fringe although my comtempt for this church and its various divisions should be obvious. As is your contempt for her constitutional/charter rights. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 My contempt is an expression of my freedom of speech under the Charter and Canadian law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 My contempt is an expression of my freedom of speech under the Charter and Canadian law. I know...so does that mean you're "warped". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Not at all. I notice the most extreme elements on the issue (abortion) are located in the USA and include bible thumpers throughout the power structure in your country. All more or less wish to limit a woman's right to choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Not at all. I notice the most extreme elements on the issue (abortion) are located in the USA and include bible thumpers throughout the power structure in your country. All more or less wish to limit a woman's right to choice. Then your understanding on the issue is very limited...abortion is flat out illegal or restricted in many other nations. Abortion law in Canada actually lagged behind the United States, and even to this day, Canadians seek abortion services in the US for a variety of reasons and restrictions back home. How's that for "extreme"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Evil=death...goodness=life.... your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinko Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Then your understanding on the issue is very limited...abortion is flat out illegal or restricted in many other nations. Abortion law in Canada actually lagged behind the United States, and even to this day, Canadians seek abortion services in the US for a variety of reasons and restrictions back home. How's that for "extreme"? I have a good understanding of the law both here and in the USA. I am also aware of the restrictions which, in Canada, are quite often related to provincial regulations rather than federal law. As you may know Justice Dickson made his seminal ruling in 1988. Here is a link for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Morgentaler. Dr. Morgentaler subsequently became a recipient of the Order of Canada. My son's medical specialty and his practice in both the USA and Canada has provided me with the necessary background has informed me on this issue. Are you from a confederate state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) I have a good understanding of the law both here and in the USA. I am also aware of the restrictions which, in Canada, are quite often related to provincial regulations rather than federal law. As you may know Justice Dickson made his seminal ruling in 1988. Here is a link for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Morgentaler. Dr. Morgentaler subsequently became a recipient of the Order of Canada. Which nation had states or provinces with legal access to abortion first? 1988 is way too late in the game. Morgantaler has already been discussed here numerous times. My son's medical specialty and his practice in both the USA and Canada has provided me with the necessary background has informed me on this issue. You are not your son. You are not as well informed as you may think. Go ask your son why some Canadians have to get abortions in the United States. Are you from a confederate state? Yes...I am from the United States. Edited February 18, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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