North & South Korea War

[Saipan]

I did not know this...

You mean to tell me a corporate aparatchik and shill was in charge of the South Korean General Staff???

No, the other way 'round.

General sent to pasture, something like Neville Chamberlain was - same reason.

[Moonlight Graham]

I think much worse. Remember, by the time we even get to the point where we were trying to establish our version of government and civil authority, there would be a million dead North Koreans.

Surely youre not still entertaining the "we'll be greeted as liberators!" axom in the face of so many hard lessons to the contrary?

Afghanistan is a CAKE WALK in comparison, and we dont even show any signs of getting THAT one wrapped up in less than 20 years or so.

We wouldn't have to establish a new government if we (the west) didn't have the resources. Plus is we did, we would likely have China to contend with. Compared to Afghanistan or Iraq, war with NK would be a conventional war like it was in the 50's. And IMO they would get raped. NK has a lot of soldiers, but we destroy them in tech. SK has better tech than they do right now because of US support. China is the big question mark though. However, China and NK aren't exactly best friends either.

China aside, we would have air and sea superiority vs NK. Why send in a ton of western/SK troops when we could just bomb the hell out of them from the air? In terms of troops, maybe the only thing we would need is to hold the line on the border.

In the end i hope all this war B.S. settles down.

[Shwa]

So much for being ignored...Canada will save South Korea!

If this is the case, then it is my duty as a Canadian to make a suggestion: take the head off the beast and avoid the swinging tail until the beast is dead. Most North Koreans understand the analogy of killing the dragon. What this means is toss a few selective smart cruise missiles here:

Satellites uncover North Korea

No tennis or beer for you Kim and company. No TV either.

We can talk about a million man army, but if it is blind and without direction, they simply become a million farmers going back to feed their people like they should have done decades ago. While I don't suggest we underestimate the NK armed forces, let them deal with a regime change. Or better yet, once their elite has been decimated, let the Chinese deal with the regime change, they are experts in that sort of thing.

This isn't 50 years ago nor is this Afghanistan. I am not talking about a cake walk either. But NK simply lacks the ability to compete they are just unaware of it. Taking a big slice out of their military elite might give them an opportunity to re-evaluate their position 'cause I am sure that barely surviving in the hills is a whole lot different than a pool and tennis court in the backyard.

[Saipan]

It's high time to pull Kim Ill Joke out of some spider hole, check him for fleas and give him a shower.

Then hang the bastard.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada's Prime Minister issues a curious statement:

"...Canada reiterates its firm support to the Republic of Korea, and urges North Korea to refrain from further reckless and belligerent actions and to abide by the Korean Armistice Agreement.

Canada remains committed to peace and stability

on the Korean Peninsula.

“Canada announced last month the adoption of a controlled engagement policy, terminating all official bilateral contacts between the government of Canada and the North Korean regime, with the exception of those necessary to address regional security concerns, human rights and the humanitarian situation in North Korea.

“

Canada is a vigorous defender of freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law around the world

.”

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?category=3&featureId=6&pageId=49&id=3802

[nicky10013]

If this is the case, then it is my duty as a Canadian to make a suggestion: take the head off the beast and avoid the swinging tail until the beast is dead. Most North Koreans understand the analogy of killing the dragon. What this means is toss a few selective smart cruise missiles here:

Satellites uncover North Korea

No tennis or beer for you Kim and company. No TV either.

We can talk about a million man army, but if it is blind and without direction, they simply become a million farmers going back to feed their people like they should have done decades ago. While I don't suggest we underestimate the NK armed forces, let them deal with a regime change. Or better yet, once their elite has been decimated, let the Chinese deal with the regime change, they are experts in that sort of thing.

This isn't 50 years ago nor is this Afghanistan. I am not talking about a cake walk either. But NK simply lacks the ability to compete they are just unaware of it. Taking a big slice out of their military elite might give them an opportunity to re-evaluate their position 'cause I am sure that barely surviving in the hills is a whole lot different than a pool and tennis court in the backyard.

They will have leadership, though. The North Korean military has a LOT of say in the government and are just as hardline as the Kims are. If the Kim's go away, NK goes from a totalitarian dictatorship to a military junta that acts in the same manner anyhow.

[Wild Bill]

They will have leadership, though. The North Korean military has a LOT of say in the government and are just as hardline as the Kims are. If the Kim's go away, NK goes from a totalitarian dictatorship to a military junta that acts in the same manner anyhow.

Maybe. Maybe not! If NK gets really busted up, it might result in re-unification. It's guaranteed that NK will desperately need help with building industry and agriculture that works, as opposed to the inefficient mess that all Stalinist regimes seem to run with.

China gets not just a huge market but a source of cheap labour if they want to float the capital to modernize NK.

Seems to me that the real downside is to El Kim Dongo and his son. SK wins, China wins and the rest of the world wins for having a whackjob regime eliminated.

The only problem of course is that there will likely be a few million casualties...

[wyly]

China aside, we would have air and sea superiority vs NK. Why send in a ton of western/SK troops when we could just bomb the hell out of them from the air? In terms of troops, maybe the only thing we would need is to hold the line on the border.

bomb them/, N Korea may just be the most bomb proof country on the planet, muntions, fuel, artillary, tanks, missiles, troops, planes, repair depots, you name it and they've buried it deep underground...they've been busy digging for 50 years, they'll be tough nut to crack, a nut with nukes...

[nicky10013]

Maybe. Maybe not! If NK gets really busted up, it might result in re-unification. It's guaranteed that NK will desperately need help with building industry and agriculture that works, as opposed to the inefficient mess that all Stalinist regimes seem to run with.

I doubt it. South Korea has already said that it won't reunify with North Korea until there's less of disparity in terms of wealth. They saw what happened with Germany and the billions of Marks and Euros Germany is still paying to bring the east up to western standards and they want absolutely no part of that. Bombing NK into rubble only makes that disparity worse.

China gets not just a huge market but a source of cheap labour if they want to float the capital to modernize NK.

Seems to me that the real downside is to El Kim Dongo and his son. SK wins, China wins and the rest of the world wins for having a whackjob regime eliminated.

North Korea wouldn't be a market for anything. As they are right now, NK citizens are too poor to even afford food at their government frozen rates. Goods on the blackmarket are many times more expensive. If they're too poor to even buy food, they won't be a market for anyone.

The only problem of course is that there will likely be a few million casualties...

Which is why there just won't be a war.

[nicky10013]

bomb them/, N Korea may just be the most bomb proof country on the planet, muntions, fuel, artillary, tanks, missiles, troops, planes, repair depots, you name it and they've buried it deep underground...they've been busy digging for 50 years, they'll be tough nut to crack, a nut with nukes...

The thing is, they're not crazy. They're defensive and they're frightened, that's for sure, but that doesn't make them crazy. They know what they're doing and they've known what they've been doing for a long time. They've always been able to squeeze out concessions from the west through the ratcheting up of tensions. That's not crazy, that's just good negotiating. Whether we like what they get or not, the fact that they're able to get it means they're doing a good job for themselves.

[dre]

The North Koreans have learned well from uncle Adolf when it comes to brinkmanship. They will take everything that people like dre are willing to give them. The only question is when they will go too far because at some point they will.

everything that people like dre are willing to give them

And whats that exactly?

[Wilber]

And whats that exactly?

Anything that will avoid a war is seems. Ask yourself who has the most to lose from a war, the impoverished, starving, oppressed North or the prosperous South who's citizens have a high degree of personal freedom?

[Shwa]

bomb them/, N Korea may just be the most bomb proof country on the planet, muntions, fuel, artillary, tanks, missiles, troops, planes, repair depots, you name it and they've buried it deep underground...they've been busy digging for 50 years, they'll be tough nut to crack, a nut with nukes...

The pics don't show the underground, but they do show some nice family compounds. Now if they want to live in the cellar while their rich lavish digs are reduced to rubble, all the power to them. But power confers luxury, remove the luxury for the elites and let them get a taste of the average North Korean's lifestyle. It won't be long before the beast is eating it's own tail for dinner.

[Shwa]

They will have leadership, though. The North Korean military has a LOT of say in the government and are just as hardline as the Kims are. If the Kim's go away, NK goes from a totalitarian dictatorship to a military junta that acts in the same manner anyhow.

Maybe, maybe not. But a nice coordinated end play with the Chinese gives them the thin edge during any transitory phase of power. If you can keep the lines of communication a mess, the transitory window is open long enough for the Chinese to get in there and root out the uncooperative.

[nicky10013]

The pics don't show the underground, but they do show some nice family compounds. Now if they want to live in the cellar while their rich lavish digs are reduced to rubble, all the power to them. But power confers luxury, remove the luxury for the elites and let them get a taste of the average North Korean's lifestyle. It won't be long before the beast is eating it's own tail for dinner.

This is pretty naive. Who says they don't have more money to rebuild after the war? Secondly, this completely neglects what will happen to South Korea and American forces along the DMZ? What about Seoul? You can't just take a decision that will negatively affect the lives of millions (if not kill millions) just because you want to look tough.

[nicky10013]

Maybe, maybe not. But a nice coordinated end play with the Chinese gives them the thin edge during any transitory phase of power. If you can keep the lines of communication a mess, the transitory window is open long enough for the Chinese to get in there and root out the uncooperative.

The Chinese won't get involved.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Chinese won't get involved.

The Chinese are already involved.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Chinese have been involved for more than five decades! That is a mere blink of time to them. The nations of Korean fall well within the borders of Chinese influence.

[capricorn]

I have heard a couple of opinions on China's response to the Korean situation that I tend to agree with. China's economy is booming and the last thing the Chinese want is a war which would divert their attention from their present economic boom. In essence, the Chinese would side with their economic partners before engaging in a war over the Korean situation. Another deterrent for China is that a military conflict would result in a massive influx of refugees from North Korea to China. So it seems to me that China's role will primarily be that of mediator, working for its own self interest to thwart a Korean war.

[bjre]

I have heard a couple of opinions on China's response to the Korean situation that I tend to agree with. China's economy is booming and the last thing the Chinese want is a war which would divert their attention from their present economic boom. In essence, the Chinese would side with their economic partners before engaging in a war over the Korean situation. Another deterrent for China is that a military conflict would result in a massive influx of refugees from North Korea to China. So it seems to me that China's role will primarily be that of mediator, working for its own self interest to thwart a Korean war.

What's wrong with China if they involve or not? For considering if bullying Korea profitable?

[Shwa]

This is pretty naive. Who says they don't have more money to rebuild after the war? Secondly, this completely neglects what will happen to South Korea and American forces along the DMZ? What about Seoul? You can't just take a decision that will negatively affect the lives of millions (if not kill millions) just because you want to look tough.

Yes Nicky, they will just throw their hands up in the air in exasperation and say, 'those bugger North Koreans, let's just bomb them.' That's naive.

What I am saying is respond to shellings and boat sinkings with a few well placed cruise missiles in the middle of their elite suburbs. Do it at night on a new moon. Bye-bye pools and tennis courts.

I highly doubt anyone would be lobbing cruise missiles without considering the millions. But I am betting that North Korea is bluffing and when the smoke clears, China will have added to it's already considerable stable of assets. There will be a McDonalds and Wal-Mart in Pyongyang within the year.

"Kim Jong? Who is Kim Jong? I'll have a quarter-pounder with a small order of kimchi please."

[bush_cheney2004]

What's wrong with China if they involve or not? For considering if bullying Korea profitable?

China does not want to repeat this from the Korean War:

China P.R. (Official data):

183,108 dead (including non-combat deaths)

383,218 wounded

25,621 MIA

21,400 POW

[bjre]

China does not want to repeat this from the Korean War:

China P.R. (Official data):

183,108 dead (including non-combat deaths)

383,218 wounded

25,621 MIA

21,400 POW

US the evil killed them.

[nicky10013]

Yes Nicky, they will just throw their hands up in the air in exasperation and say, 'those bugger North Koreans, let's just bomb them.' That's naive.

What I am saying is respond to shellings and boat sinkings with a few well placed cruise missiles in the middle of their elite suburbs. Do it at night on a new moon. Bye-bye pools and tennis courts.

I highly doubt anyone would be lobbing cruise missiles without considering the millions. But I am betting that North Korea is bluffing and when the smoke clears, China will have added to it's already considerable stable of assets. There will be a McDonalds and Wal-Mart in Pyongyang within the year.

"Kim Jong? Who is Kim Jong? I'll have a quarter-pounder with a small order of kimchi please."

So, you're saying if we launch cruise missiles into North Korea wouldn't attack South Korea? :rolleyes:

I stand by my original naive statement.

Edited November 30, 2010 by nicky10013

[bush_cheney2004]

US the evil killed them.

Actually, it was all UN forces....Killing Commies for Christ and Allah.